GOD DONE WITH ISRAEL?

distantshores · May 26, 2011

1. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the temple and the siege of Jerusalem, which signified quite clearly the end of the old system. There was no more temple, no more sacrifices, not much of a holy city to speak of anymore. This final destruction signified the end of the old covenant.

2. If you accept the (partial) preterist view of scripture, as I do, the New Jerusalem is the present-day church; it has replaced the old Jerusalem, signifying that the Church has replaced the nation of Israel.

3. Jesus told the Jews of his time to think nothing of the fact that they were descendants of Abraham because he could raise children of Abraham from stones. Being of a so-called Jewish lineage is of no merit.

4. Paul wrote in Romans 2 that true Jews are not outward ones, but inward ones. In other words, lineage has nothing to do with true 'Jewishness'.

5. The early church fathers believed that cut had cut off the nation of Israel as a whole (though individual Jews could still be saved, of course) because of its rejection of Jesus, and that the Christians of all nations were God's new Israel.

6. Paul wrote, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendents, heirs according to promise."

The Jews were instrumental in bringing the story of God's grace to the world, but the Church is now fulfilling that role; there is no longer a special place for a Jewish nation apart from the new Israel and the New Jerusalem.

Ramon · May 26, 2011

Avinu said:

How are you my friend, may the Lord Jesus bless you in all you do. In wisdom, and in knowledge, in love and in grace.

I would like to talk to you further about this particular post here, as you say about the Israel God created through Abram, who became Abraham.

My friend, this is one of the most precious things about the Lord. It is a very precious revelation of the Lord. This is one of the things that the Lord made sure that I learned about. About that covenant. But all of Israel as pertaining to the Spirit is spiritual Israel. In Israel during the day of Jesus, not all Israel was of Israel. I say this because not all of Israel after the flesh were partakers of the covenant.

Not all Israel after the flesh were beneficiaries of the covenant established. The covenant was not to be established in the flesh of men, though fleshy men were used to display the reality of the covenant. The full and whole of the covenant was established in Jesus Christ. From the promised King to the promised Messiah. The promise was made sure to the SEED of Abraham. Seed, as in one, not as in many. And all partakers of the covenant have that seed in them as it was written that that seed should remain in them. Which gave birth to another generation.

My friend, the Lord is complete though. He will in the last time gather together after the flesh the tribes of Israel for the final days, a glorious end before the end of the world. And this will be the perfection of the Will of God. Complete in flesh and Spirit. This will be the time when the children of Abraham, will have put off the old law, and on the new law of the Spirit. And a mighty move in the land of Israel. Where the Lord God will lift up a broken people in an evil world. To finish off the flesh. As it was written of the Lord God to our Lord Jesus:

SIT THOU ON MY RIGHT HAND TILL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOTSTOOL.

May Jesus bless you.

Avinu · May 2, 2012

It's not over yet. Much more yet to come!

loveme1 · May 3, 2012

You know what stands out in Revelation, is the One hundred and forty four thousand are of the 12 tribes, and the 12 gates are of the twelve tribes...

Have none of you considered you come from one of those tribes?

pickles · May 3, 2012

Avinu said:

Amen, I agree.
Its sad, that untill I came to this site, I never had seen any christian speak so much against Israel.
Ive never understood it and have not accepted it.
For all I have seen and known in the scriptures speaks that just as God chose them in the beginning, they will be again in the end.
Because some how the arguments hold nothing, compared to what God has set upon ones heart in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh.
Funny, as I wrote this, the scripture,( he who comes first shall be last, and he who was last shall be first) came to mind.

God bless
pickles

eternally-gratefull · May 3, 2012

pickles said:

Rom 11
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

How anyone could say Paul here is speaking of the church, and not the nation of Isreal is beyond me.

Gods covenant with his chosen people (elect) is still in effect. They are IRREVOCABLE,

God kep his promise to Abraham concerning ALL nations. thrugh Christ, and the church. But his promises which were directed only to his natural children are not done away with.

Avinu · May 3, 2012

Amen Pickles, I too have never seen so many claimed children of God bash Israel as I have on CC. It breaks my heart.
amen again, the first shall be last, and the last first.
Bless you achoti, (sister)

resurrection33 · May 4, 2012

Avinu said:

I have seen much talk against and for Israel on here. There are those who believe OT is completely fulfilled and that Israel really isn't apart of anything anymore.

There are those who believe that Israel is the epic center of scripture.

Here is scripture that as far as I know has yet to be fulfilled, never have I heard this ever happening through out history.

When God said His covenant with Israel is forever, as far as I have learned, the word forever has no end.

ZECHARIAH 8:23
THUS SAYS YHWH TZVA'OT(GOD OF HOSTS): " IN THOSE DAYS IT SHALL COME TO PASS, THAT TEN MEN SHALL TAKE HOLD, OUT OF ALL THE LANGUAGES OF THE NATIONS, SHALL EVEN TAKE HOLD OF THE TZIT TZIT(TASSLES) OF HIM THAT IS A JEW, SAYING: WE WILL GO WITH YOU, FOR WE HAVE HEARD THAT ELOHIM(GOD) IS WITH YOU."

In fact if you read the whole chapter, it is clear none of it has ever been fufilled yet. SHALOM

I don’t think the Lord’s relationship with Israel ever changes.

fretslide · May 6, 2012

If theres one thing i've learned in all the bible study I have done it's that satan hates most that which God loves most. If you can be persuaded into the arrogant stance that as the church, we have replaced Israel, then what security do you have that the churches blatant dissobedience of Gods word won't persuade him to replace the church in the same way you believe he has replaced Israel?

If you seek to win an argument then carry on arguing. If you seek the knowledge of God, please do the folowing:

Read Romans 11, then answer these 2 questions;

What was written on the plaque on the cross Jesus was crucified on? (Luke 23:38)

When he comes back to earth in glory, where does he land? (Zachariah 14:4)

Without contention, I pray that the Spirit of God leads you into all truth.

Blessings

jkalyna · May 6, 2012

Avinu said:

BLESSINGS AVINU; COULD YOU explain IF YOU KNOW WHEN JESUS CURSED THE FIG TREE IT WAS SAID IN ANOTHER FORUM THAT HE CURSED ISRAELS DISOBIDIENCE OR REJECTION OF HIM AND IS IT TRUE THE FIG TREE IS THE ISRAEL TREE SYMBOL. TY HUGS IN CHRIST

honest01 · May 7, 2012

What we are missing is that the words of GOD never fails and Israel remains that chosen nation. The covenant which GOD made with Abraham still remain until today and forever; and when Jesus came, this covenant was now for all those who believe in GOD and not only the Jew.Who ever believe in Jesus receive the blessing of the covenant.

cronjecj · May 7, 2012

Those who has the Son becomes Isreal.

in the OT the Jew was a Jew by nature but now through the new covenant in the Lord Jesus Christ anyone who believes is a Jew at heart, a chosen people, priesthood, Isreal.

We as the gentile, the lost son has found the Father again through Christ.

Christ came to found which was lost.

i was lost now i'm found

eternally-gratefull · May 7, 2012

honest01 said:

The covenant of salvation was just as much given to gentiles in the OT as it was a jew, we know this from the many gentiles, as well as Ninevah ( A gentile nation God sent jonah too) were saved, not because they were jews, but because of the gospel.

The national promises, given to physical descendants only, are still in effect. and DO NOT BELONG TO THE CHURCH.

The church was never promised land

the church was never promised peace, if they follow Gods law, and freedom from evil and their enemies. in fact the church is promised the more they follow Christ, the more they will be persecuted and hated.

The church was never promised many things ONLY promised to the Isrealites, which are still in effect today.

systemdown101 · May 7, 2012

Pickles: It's funny, but I remember thinking the exact same thing many times. In so many words awhile ago in CC Chat I responded that there's no way I would ever take a Jew newly converted to Christ to see this website as they would think the place was overrun by anti-semites with all the Jew-bashing going on. Then again, this was about the time CC was swarming with a strange version of amillenialism and various personality cults. It was odd, to say the least.

It's a lot friendlier here now.

pickles · May 8, 2012

systemdown101 said:

I believe Jesus set a heart for Israel on me very early in life.
I had neighbors who both husband and wife had survived the death camps.
I saw the tatoos on their arms, and the horror written in their faces.
I once heard the wife speak to my mom about the many terrible things that happened, they thought I was watching tv and too young to understand, but I had good hearing and a open heart.
Trully, these are God's chosen, for such hate, evil, has sought thier destruction in body and mind and spirit.
I will never forget the truths I heard and learned from them.
Both have passed now.
But this truth has always remained alive in my heart, where Jesus lives.
Not of my own abuilities, but of His mercy!
I pray that these terrible things will never be repeated, but the knowladge of these truths, has caused me to see the seeds again growing strong, and this time this future.... well, I am greatful for Jesus as my life, streangth and love.

God bless
pickles

Avinu · May 8, 2012

Shalom jkalyna, yes it is true that the fig tree is used in scripture as a symbol about Israel. But when Yeshua cursed the fig tree, that was about those who don't produce fruit will be cast away. It wasn't directed only at Israel's disobedience, but anyone who did not produce good fruit. Which is the body of Messiah. Hugs back at ya!

Timofree · May 8, 2012

35 This is what the Lord says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the Lord Almighty is his name:
36 “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the Lord,
“will Israel ever cease
being a nation before me.”

37 This is what the Lord says:
“Only if the heavens above can be measured
and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
will I reject all the descendants of Israel
because of all they have done,”
declares the Lord.

Is the sun still shining, yes, have the heavens been measured, no. Then God still has plans for Israel, simple, hallelujah! Shalom

Abiding · May 8, 2012

Tempting thread. But without dozens of scriptures and proper definitions of Jew, Israel,
natural, spiritual, land, true zion etc...itll just be a vague arguement...so ill just supply the
tasty treats...and shake my head.....and watch sentemant drive theology..and theology
drive understanding of the Word of God.

athwart · May 8, 2012

If the true Jews are of the spirit and not of the flesh, then why all the hub bub of the Stae of Isreal?

athwart · May 8, 2012

That should read Israel...sorry.

GOD DONE WITH ISRAEL?

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