God is In Control?

[Ariel82]

Matthew 28:18–20.

Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

 

[Ariel82]

Hi Denadii,

God did tell Adam to take dominion and subdue the earth. But not absolutely. In other words, God steps in or has angels step in to prevent, allow or dictate what will take place.

God is still in charge of all things, right? He still intervenes in what man does.

“This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchersAnd the decision is a command of the holy ones,
In order that the living may know
That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind,
And bestows it on whom He wishes
And sets over it the lowliest of men.” Daniel 4:17

Man killed Jesus, but only because God had the control over what happened. God gave man the ability to do what they did. Had He not given control, Jesus would not have died.

“You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.” John 19:11All authority of man is under God's control.

There is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Romans 13:1

Amen, God is in control and Jesus is King of kings, ruler of Heaven and Earth.

Why do some men want to share His throne or place an idol of themselves upon it?

 

[wolfwint]

Figure it out Wolfwint..If you have another being living inside of you, part of you, inseparable from you what would you call yourself...Your very DNA is changed since you were born again...Your body has changed..You're a hybrid now..Part man and part God... But that does not change the fact that when you die, or when you are caught up you will get a body like Jesus got when he went to heaven after he rose from the dead.
YOu will either believe all that is written in the bible or you believe none of it.

My body has am DNA thats right. But does an soul has an DNA? I suppose this nobody can proof ore find out. No part of Mine is God! How God can have an part with an sinful body? As the scripture said in 1. John 3,2 we are yet not what we will be. Nowhere in the bible it is said that we will be like God. Only Satan said this to Eva.If you teach different then it is false teaching.

 

[Ariel82]

Some folks believe in the little gods doctrine, wolfwint...don't you want to eat their candy?

I heard that the sugar covers up the piece of dung in the center.

1. Your DNA is not changed after being born again.

2. To be born again IS a spiritual change, but it DOES NOT MAKE YOU PART GOD.

3. Only Satan offers people the chance to become their own gods.

 

[Denadii]

God did tell Adam to take dominion and subdue the earth. But not absolutely. In other words, God steps in or has angels step in to prevent, allow or dictate what will take place.

God is still in charge of all things, right? He still intervenes in what man does.

“This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchersAnd the decision is a command of the holy ones,
In order that the living may know
That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind,
And bestows it on whom He wishes
And sets over it the lowliest of men.” Daniel 4:17

Man killed Jesus, but only because God had the control over what happened. God gave man the ability to do what they did. Had He not given control, Jesus would not have died.

“You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.” John 19:11All authority of man is under God's control.

There is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Romans 13:1



Interesting...When did God take the authority away form us? When God gave us the dominion authority there were no stipulations..Or did I miss that in the Word?
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

What did I miss?

BTW...Thank you for a post that has actuallly been thought about before it was posted

 

[Ariel82]

What did you miss?

1.you are not Adam

2. Dominion was given to Jesus, the Seed,not seeds.

 

[Denadii]

What did you miss?

1.you are not Adam

2. Dominion was given to Jesus, the Seed,not seeds.

You need to read it again

 

[wolfwint]

If I am honest I prefer chocolat with nuts.

 

[Ariel82]

Let me ask you..,is this a TRUE or FALSE statement?

Luke 4:6 ►
New International Version
And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.

New Living Translation
"I will give you the glory of these kingdoms and authority over them," the devil said, "because they are mine to give to anyone I please.

English Standard Version
and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.

Berean Study Bible
"I will give You authority over all these kingdoms and all their glory," he said. "For it has been relinquished to me, and I can give it to anyone I wish.

 

[graceNpeace]

This is probably worth posting.
Denadii has not confirmed that his theological approach is "word of faith".
However, given his utterances so far it seems that he is at least heavily influenced that way.

My spiritual roots go back to a charismatic background - however the theological foundation of our church was reformed theology but obviously with a non-cessationist approach to pneumatology.
As such, we were exposed to a lot of "word of faith" stuff although our church never embraced it.

"Word of Faith" takes principles and doctrinal precepts that do have validity and pushes them so completely out of context to a point where they become unrecognisable Biblically.
The biggest doctrinal casualties are the doctrine of God (theology proper) and Biblical anthropology.
Essentially the relationship between God and man is hopelessly skewed as a result - God becomes the equivalent of a cosmic vending machine and man calls the shots.

I tried to call Denadii out yesterday to explain his theological position because of my suspicions but he persisted in playing his game.
According to the theorem of the duck "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it most likely a duck", then this duck does appear to be a "word of faith" duck.

It may be that Denadii is unaware of the significance of what he is promoting or just trying to play devils advocate, but given the tone of the posting yesterday it seems more likely that he knows what he is about.
In fact, his approach reminds me a lot of some of the more aggressive Hebrew Roots fellows who have come and gone on this forum who tried to convert us to their particular version of the "Save the World Club".

He should however be given an opportunity to explain himself.

 

[Ariel82]

Truthfully it looks more to be this type of candy, but I am still reading all the post so we shall see...

WHAT IS DOMINIONISM? : Apprising Ministries

 

[MattforJesus]

We are not part man and part God,for we still are a human,that is us,but God resides in us,but He is not connected to us in that His nature is ours as any of His Spirit becomes a part of us for the keeping,and part of our essence,but we have His nature in attributes,the ones Jesus showed on earth.

We are human in essence,and one day a soul with a glorified body in essence,but God's Spirit never becomes part of our essence,but He resides in us as a separate being.

When we are saved in heaven,we are still one person,but God resides in us,which the Bible says that God is above all,and through all,and in you all.

God is an omnipresent Spirit,and cannot be separated,or broken up,or blown up,or shredded,but always stays intact,and does not move around physical objects,but His Spirit flows all through the physical things,physical matter,but He is not part of the physical world,for His Spirit,and the physical world are separate things.

God is even in the wicked,for God is in all,and He never becomes a part of us,and our essence as a being created by Him,but He resides in us as a separate being,but in the world He does not manifest attributes,but in the saints He manifests partial attributes,and in the man Christ Jesus He manifest all His attributes,for He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The truth is God's Spirit,and the physical matter,and the materials that God used to create,are two separate things,and God made nothing with His Spirit,but all with the physical world.

Even though the angels cannot be seen with our naked eye,and are considered spiritual,and we will have a glorified body that is considered spiritual,it is still made from physical material.

All things God made are from the physical things.

And another thing about people thinking we will be gods,and they delight in it.

That means nothing,absolutely nothing.

What does gods mean when we can never compete on God's level,and can never even compare to Him,or be like Him,for God is a Spirit that cannot disintegrate,cannot tear,cannot blow up,cannot erode,cannot melt,nothing can happen to God that can make Him less,make Him weak,a nuclear bomb does nothing to Him for He can never blow up.Nothing can happen to God.

But He has the power to assemble,and disassemble,physical matter at any time He wants,for He could make a being one trillion miles long,by one trillion miles high,by one trillion miles wide,with enormous power,that could punch a planet that weighed 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms,and it could fly through space for 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
miles,at the speed of
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Miles Per Hour,and that being would be like a pinhead in size to God who is an omnipresent Spirit,and God could disassemble that being quickly back to physical matter.

What does gods mean,for compared to God it does not matter whether we are weak an an ant,or strong as that large being,with that enormous power.

What does gods mean,for when the saints are with God,all enemies are conquered,and put away,and it is only God,Jesus,and the saints,so why do they have to be enormously strong,and highly intelligent,for concerning the saints,there is no one to go against,no one to defend themselves against,no one to pit their abilities against.

Being gods means nothing except they have eternal life,that is it.

For no matter the strength,or the intelligence,it means nothing,not one iota of anything,zilch,zero,natta,nothing.

We could be small as ants,and it would be the same as if we are that large being,with the enormous power.

Saying we will be gods means nothing.

 

[graceNpeace]

Truthfully it looks more to be this type of candy, but I am still reading all the post so we shall see...

WHAT IS DOMINIONISM? : Apprising Ministries

This is possible too but so far the only sign relates the false take on God's sovereignty.

 

[Angela53510]

Healing, Deliverance, Prosperity, freedom, Blessing and much more...What do we see most? Sickness, death, poverty, pain and loss. Is God's will being fulfilled? Not really. Not in His people. We get sick and we say."Oh God put this on me to teach me something" But God said that 'By Jesus stripes ye WERE healed." Who is wrong here? God says "I would that you prosper even as your soul prospers" But we are not prosperous...We eke out a living day to day...no different from those of the world. We live in bondage to fear, to sickness, to the boss that we work hard to enrich. but God said "I (Jesus) came to to preach deliverance to the captives" Yet we continue to live in captivity to the world....
Cone on Christians! Either you are a child of God with all the rights and privileges of a citizen of Heaven or you are not. You are coheirs with Jesus
Romans 8:17 (CJB)


[SUP]17 [/SUP]and if we are children, then we are also heirs, heirs of God and joint-heirs with the Messiah — provided we are suffering with him in order also to be glorified with him.
Joint heirs means that everything Jesus inherits, we inherit...in other words...Everything that Jesus has we also have. That's Gods will...
So if you do not see it in your life,,Then either God is failing in his work for you, or you are failing in your work for Him...

Which is it? If speaking thus makes me a heretic or a blasphemer in your eyes..So be it.

You control whether God gets His way or not

Some really bad formating in this post. Perhaps putting quotes around the Bible verses would help me?

My point is this - "healing, deliverance, prosperity, freedom blessing and much more..."

This is the essence of the Word Faith heresy, man being in control, God at our beck and command, and all the other nonsense this extremely detrimental dogma posits as biblical.

Tell you what, Denadii, when you have the background and experience in correctly exegeting the bible, then come back and we can discuss. Be sure to have a couple of years of Greek and Hebrew under you belt, and definitely a course or three in Hermeneutics, because I get so tired of dealing with you brainwashed idiots and your totally inability to actually read the bible for yourself, instead of stringing together these out of context verses, which you copied off the page of some Word Faith liar and deceiver.

You convict yourself as a Word Faith adherent by every thing you put up. I do confess that OP did deceive me. Well, there are some real weirdo beliefs out there, and I thought maybe you were part of some sort of outer space cult? Who know!

If you want, I'll find some past threads I started on WHY this entire Word Faith heresy is wrong. Let me know!

(Shakes head - they just keep churning them out, don't they? And not even in contact with reality!! Yikes!)

 

[Desertsrose]

God did tell Adam to take dominion and subdue the earth. But not absolutely. In other words, God steps in or has angels step in to prevent, allow or dictate what will take place.

God is still in charge of all things, right? He still intervenes in what man does.

“This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchersAnd the decision is a command of the holy ones,
In order that the living may know
That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind,
And bestows it on whom He wishes
And sets over it the lowliest of men.” Daniel 4:17

Man killed Jesus, but only because God had the control over what happened. God gave man the ability to do what they did. Had He not given control, Jesus would not have died.

“You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.” John 19:11All authority of man is under God's control.

There is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Romans 13:1



Interesting...When did God take the authority away form us? When God gave us the dominion authority there were no stipulations..Or did I miss that in the Word?
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

What did I miss?

BTW...Thank you for a post that has actuallly been thought about before it was posted

Denadii,

I really believe that that was meant before man sinned. Afterwards people changed, the earth changed and animals changed.

No more dominion over the earth.
Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
“Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return.”

Dominion was taken from Adam over the earth. Now it would grow thorns and thistles and from sweat Adam would bring forth bread.

The serpent is now going to have to crawl on it's belly. And now there's enmity between the woman and the serpent. No more dominion over the animals.

The Lord God said to the serpent,
“Because you have done this,
Cursed are you more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you will go,
And dust you will eat
All the days of your life;
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.”

The woman now has pain in childbirth. And she's lost dominion. Her husband would now rule over her.
To the woman He said,“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.”

So as I see it, everything changed. And God changed the "let them have dominion and rule over." I can't see it any other way.

Genesis 1:26-28 was before Adam and Eve sinned. Their punishment was great, so great that God changed it all. They even had to leave the garden, never to return.

Genesis 3:24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Also, there's a description of the geographical area of Eden.
Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers. The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush. The name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. Genesis 2:10-14

 

[Denadii]

This is probably worth posting.
Denadii has not confirmed that his theological approach is "word of faith".
However, given his utterances so far it seems that he is at least heavily influenced that way.

My spiritual roots go back to a charismatic background - however the theological foundation of our church was reformed theology but obviously with a non-cessationist approach to pneumatology.
As such, we were exposed to a lot of "word of faith" stuff although our church never embraced it.

"Word of Faith" takes principles and doctrinal precepts that do have validity and pushes them so completely out of context to a point where they become unrecognisable Biblically.
The biggest doctrinal casualties are the doctrine of God (theology proper) and Biblical anthropology.
Essentially the relationship between God and man is hopelessly skewed as a result - God becomes the equivalent of a cosmic vending machine and man calls the shots.

I tried to call Denadii out yesterday to explain his theological position because of my suspicions but he persisted in playing his game.
According to the theorem of the duck "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it most likely a duck", then this duck does appear to be a "word of faith" duck.

It may be that Denadii is unaware of the significance of what he is promoting or just trying to play devils advocate, but given the tone of the posting yesterday it seems more likely that he knows what he is about.
In fact, his approach reminds me a lot of some of the more aggressive Hebrew Roots fellows who have come and gone on this forum who tried to convert us to their particular version of the "Save the World Club".

He should however be given an opportunity to explain himself.

Of course I'm a faith person. [FONT=&quot]I believe our hearts are purified their hearts by faith.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I believe that we are sanctified by faith [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I believe that The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I believe that we are made righteous by faith [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I believe that we are justified by faith [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I believe that we have access into grace (and stand in His presence) by faith[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I believe that by faith we stand.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I believe that we walk by faith, not by sight[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] I believe that we live by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I believe that I am of God by faith in Christ Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I believe that I through the Spirit, I wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I believe that Christ dwells in my heart by faith[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
I believe that every single word in the bible is for ME..(you too) for when I need it. God's Word is true.

So who are YOU people to judge anybody? You have just as many holes in your theology as anyone else..You fall as much as anyone else. You put your pants on one leg at a time and you squat to ..whatever.... Do as you will judges...What I said is what is written in the Word... what you said is not. Believe the Word or not. Its your right.
[/FONT]

 

[Ariel82]

This is possible too but so far the only sign relates the false take on God's sovereignty.

Well he says Angela has been made manager of her section of earth, by God to train her to rule with Him later....

My contention is simply that man is in charge in the Earth.

*****
Listen Angela..YOU are in control of your own area of this world...If you act without seeking His wisdom you would be a fool....Nobody said we should ignore God..We know His will for us...We need to line up our thinking with His, then when something comes up, and you take control, you exercise your authority, and you won't do something stupid to make things worse. We are in control but it's still a reliance on God.
*****
You are not in charge of the whole Earth...Just your area...Isn't that enough?

***

 

[Denadii]

Denadii,

I really believe that that was meant before man sinned. Afterwards people changed, the earth changed and animals changed.

No more dominion over the earth.
Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
“Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return.”

Dominion was taken from Adam over the earth. Now it would grow thorns and thistles and from sweat Adam would bring forth bread.

The serpent is now going to have to crawl on it's belly. And now there's enmity between the woman and the serpent. No more dominion over the animals.

The Lord God said to the serpent,
“Because you have done this,
Cursed are you more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you will go,
And dust you will eat
All the days of your life;
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.”

The woman now has pain in childbirth. And she's lost dominion. Her husband would now rule over her.
To the woman He said,“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.”

So as I see it, everything changed. And God changed the "let them have dominion and rule over." I can't see it any other way.

Genesis 1:26-28 was before Adam and Eve sinned. Their punishment was great, so great that God changed it all. They even had to leave the garden, never to return.

Genesis 3:24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Also, there's a description of the geographical area of Eden.
Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers. The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush. The name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. Genesis 2:10-14

Dear lady. What you believe has no bearing whatsoever on what is or is not true...That is your understanding...But It was not written in the word that dominion was rescinded. You only think it was. but with no Word back up.

 

[Ariel82]

Denadi, do you attend church?

How do you assert authority over your part of the Earth?

Do the all the animals listen to your commands as they did Adam and Eve?

 

[Denadii]

Denadi, do you attend church?

How you assert authority over your part of the Earth?

I attend three times a week. I assert authority over my part by speaking Gods Word over it. How else?