"awelight, posted
Again, you make some good points but where we are differing, is about choice. Man lost His ability to choose righteousness because he could no longer perceive what was righteous.
On the issue underlined above I differ. But before I comment further, I would like to say that you have made it easier for me by saying, in your third paragraph that " Every person who made a correct choice for God and righteousness, has had that work performed upon them". Since you believe this, I do not see again where we differ on the freedom of choice.
I believe man retained his ability to choose good over evil and vice versa after the fall of man. By sinning, he planted the sin consciousness that now makes it difficult for him to choose because of the conflict between the spirit and the flesh which St Paul talked about.
I do not see Rom 1:18-21 the way you explained it. But going by your line of thought, we agree that man became a "natural" man by choice, not by creation. As I explained in my earlier posts, there are principles or Devine laws that are made to checkmate the activities of man on earth, to redirect the wicked to the right path for example. When the events occur, some consider and turn away from their evil path while some continue with their hardened heart. God continues to give them space to repent and bear long with them until their cup of wickedness is full in the eyes of the Lord. The soul that sins shall die, the bible says. Therefore, the responsibility of making that choice to sin or not to sin is put in our hands.
Awelight said,
You used this verse in your discussion, and said: "We read in Ecclesiastics 9:2, that all things come alike to all. There is one event to the righteous and to the wicked to the good and to the sinner. This means that one event happens unto all but it is our individual or collective choice of actions that determines what happens to us. Our reactions to these events makes or mars us."
You do realize the subject under discussion in Ecc. 9:2, is the subject of Death? Not at all the way you used it.
Yes I know King Solomon was talking about death in Ecc. 9:2. I also know that death is not the only event that happens to all. Think about rain. And so are other events interwoven in creation.
Awelight said,
Again in 2 Chr. 12, This is not an example of one making a choice regarding salvation. These are choices, the natural man makes all the time in his/her life. Rehoboam, was not a good king, he had lead Israel away from the Law of Jehovah. God sent Egypt to punish him and Israel. Shemaiah is sent to warn them, because of their transgressions, the armies of Egypt, will destroy Jerusalem. They humbled themselves before God, so God did not destroy them utterly. However they were put into servitude and many treasures were taken from them.
It teaches us the same lesson. If we choose to serve God, there are benefits. If we choose not to, there are consequences. They had their way of worshiping God which was passed down to them, which is different from the doctrine passed to us but the lesson remains the same.
Awelight said,
While even in a believers' life, God grants us repentance, so that we may turn back from what ever it is that has ensnared us. 2Ti_2:25 in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth, Yes, the natural man makes many choices during their lifetime but they lack the spiritual ability, to choose righteousness over what they know and have been taught in the World system. This worldly knowledge and the deceptions of the Devil, keep their minds darkened. Therefore, this twofold process, 1) Wisdom of the World, 2) The deception and snatching of the Devil, (Luke 8:12), leaves the natural man, who cannot discern spiritual things, (1 Cor.2:14), in a hopeless condition, if it were not for the Grace of God.
Isa 43:21 the people which I formed for myself, that they might set forth my praise. [/QUOTE]
God grants us repentance when we beckon on him. It is not different for a "natural" man. As I said above, there are events in creation that could make people change their ways or straighten them on the way of truth. He tells us to draw near to him and he will draw near to us. His salvation for mankind, the redemption of our souls, his grace and Truth he has given us free through our Lord Jesus Christ without our asking and without our righteousness. But we must key ourselves into his grace by faith to avail us of the rewards. We cannot say we have faith without first engaging our heart towards God. There is a first step.
Let's say it is like the Lord's banquet
It is written, Ho, everyone that thirsts, come you to the waters and he that has no money, come buy wine and milk without money and without prices, wherefore do you spend money for that which is not bread?, and your labor for that which satisfies not? Harken diligently unto me and eat you that which is good and let your soul delight in abundance (Isaiah 55: 1-2).
A banquet is a formal gathering of invited guests to a sumptuous meal. It is formal therefore guests are expected to behave and act in a certain way and manner. The meal is served to everyone present but the choice is theirs to decide whether to eat or not and how much of it to eat and drink. Though the food is not purchased, it costs the guests something, at least their time, that opportunity cost of being somewhere else or doing something else. Likewise with the banquet of the Lord, everything our father has is ours. (1 Corinthians 3:21). He has served them to us by inheritance. We get them without money but we must buy them as it is quoted above, come you to the waters and he that has no money, come you, buy and eat, come buy wine and milk without money and without prices. There is no price tag on them but must cost us something which everybody can afford whether rich or poor. And that which they cost us is the life of the flesh. We must give up life after the flesh in order to have them. However, when we truly understand that the life after the flesh profits us nothing, we can appreciate the fact that they really cost nothing. We get them free of charge. But we must choose to have them and give up the life of the flesh.
I had to delete some things from your post in order not to exceed the word limit allowed.
Also I realized I revisited this thread late, so sorry about that.
