God ordains sin???
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Some would say this is taking 'responsibility' for it.
Passion of the Christ - Whipping Scene (Third Day) - YouTube
Passion of the Christ - Whipping Scene (Third Day) - YouTube
B
IMPROPER USE OF VOCABULARY!!!
or·dain   [awr-deyn] verb (used with object)
1.to invest with ministerial or sacerdotal functions; confer holy orders upon.
2.to enact or establish by law, edict, etc.: to ordain a new type of government.
3.to decree; give orders for: He ordained that the restrictions were to be lifted.
4.(of God, fate, etc.) to destine or predestine: Fate had ordained the meeting.
God did not/ does not and has NEVER "ordained" sin.
or·dain   [awr-deyn] verb (used with object)
1.to invest with ministerial or sacerdotal functions; confer holy orders upon.
2.to enact or establish by law, edict, etc.: to ordain a new type of government.
3.to decree; give orders for: He ordained that the restrictions were to be lifted.
4.(of God, fate, etc.) to destine or predestine: Fate had ordained the meeting.
God did not/ does not and has NEVER "ordained" sin.
E
In order to make a relational, free will thinking person. God must give them the opportunity to not only chose right, but chose wrong. If God made it impossible for us to do wrong, he would not have made us relational free thinking people, he would have made us machines, forced to do only that which he wanted us to do.. and there would be no possibility of relationship.
P
and that would be everyone.
'cpet Jesus.
Phil, am I getting too ahead of things if I ask if this is
'double-predestination'?
We have attended churches that taught the Word of God, but not in relation to doctrinal labels like that, so I honestly don't know. (ignorance=bliss?)
And if that is getting too ahead of things, I won't ask.
-ellie
'cpet Jesus.
Phil, am I getting too ahead of things if I ask if this is
'double-predestination'?
We have attended churches that taught the Word of God, but not in relation to doctrinal labels like that, so I honestly don't know. (ignorance=bliss?
)And if that is getting too ahead of things, I won't ask.
-ellie
Yes I can deny that.
Jesus was the perfect sacrifice.
Jesus didn't ever become 'wicked' for us.
He stood in our place as propitiation.
Our sin was ladled on a perfect man.
Jesus was perfect, is perfect, and will always be perfect.
That is how His offering for our shortcomings was accepted.
Much like an animal who can't even know right from wrong was killed for the wickedness of the people.
The imputed life doesn't make the lamb wicked, for it was through the shedding of innocent blood
that sins are remitted.
Jesus never became wicked, He just died for us as a spotless lamb.
Jesus was the perfect sacrifice.
Jesus didn't ever become 'wicked' for us.
He stood in our place as propitiation.
Our sin was ladled on a perfect man.
Jesus was perfect, is perfect, and will always be perfect.
That is how His offering for our shortcomings was accepted.
Much like an animal who can't even know right from wrong was killed for the wickedness of the people.
The imputed life doesn't make the lamb wicked, for it was through the shedding of innocent blood
that sins are remitted.
Jesus never became wicked, He just died for us as a spotless lamb.
P
This is hard for me to get the gist of what is meant when the words are spoken so formally.
It's like trying to sole a math problem to think what id this saying then what is the meaning of it then what is solution.
I can look ordain up in the dictionary but still I will have to work out the equation or problem by applying it to the correct words or numbers that give me the answer that answers the problem.
That is hard for me.
The only way I can understand it in my own mind is to first put sin where sin needs to be like putting the number where it needs to be to be able to subtract from it.
Sin is in the flesh.
Second would be to find what ordainment was already established to be made acceptable unto God for a way to place hold that Sin on it.
God fore ordained Christs flesh to be manifested here for us he would come and be manifested in the flesh for us to redeem us from our sinful flesh.
Third Promised way established and fore told One Christ came through obedience to the Word of God and faithfulness to know no sin him own self but remain spotted and with out blemish or guile ground in his mouth being God manifested in the flesh a body of flesh that was perfect no Sin took that sin upon him own body and shoulders to bear it for us and give his body over to be put to death with our Sin inputted upon it.
Fourth there is no way Christ will die any more for it is once appointed unto man to die and then the judgment that is the Word of God, so following this is the judgment of Christ and his soul has no corruption in it His spirit has no corruption in it so God declares Him the Righteousness of God found and judged in Him.
And does not cast Him off but rewards Him with the rewards promised for the Promised one while casting all our sins that Christ took upon His own flesh and body off to be seen no more or remembered again and this means not to bring them back into remembrance and input them into us ever again.
This Sin was Ordained even from Adam to us today to be removed this way so we can be acceptable unto God in our spirit while our flesh dies to sin with Christ whose body died to our sin. This is what baptism is in recognition of and us raising up in the newness of life Christ died for us to obtain.
So we can be together with Christ and there fore with God by the Faith of Christ and our faith it has become unto us who believe and testify to this.
So we are to strive to put the flesh to death in its rule over our body so we can live out of its bondage and in faith and spirit live in Christ for God.
That is the only way for Sin to be ordained to be by God and this being for the removal of it atonement of it. Washing it away and it be just and righteous.
Because there is no unrighteousness in God or his judgment he is perfect and pure and declares the wages of sin to be death.
we can not be rewarded with life and that life everlasting but by this Way Christ came and became for us who had the wages of sin and no other atonement acceptable unto God except that in which He God ordained to be our Sin and our paid wages of Christs death.
It's like trying to sole a math problem to think what id this saying then what is the meaning of it then what is solution.
I can look ordain up in the dictionary but still I will have to work out the equation or problem by applying it to the correct words or numbers that give me the answer that answers the problem.
That is hard for me.
The only way I can understand it in my own mind is to first put sin where sin needs to be like putting the number where it needs to be to be able to subtract from it.
Sin is in the flesh.
Second would be to find what ordainment was already established to be made acceptable unto God for a way to place hold that Sin on it.
God fore ordained Christs flesh to be manifested here for us he would come and be manifested in the flesh for us to redeem us from our sinful flesh.
Third Promised way established and fore told One Christ came through obedience to the Word of God and faithfulness to know no sin him own self but remain spotted and with out blemish or guile ground in his mouth being God manifested in the flesh a body of flesh that was perfect no Sin took that sin upon him own body and shoulders to bear it for us and give his body over to be put to death with our Sin inputted upon it.
Fourth there is no way Christ will die any more for it is once appointed unto man to die and then the judgment that is the Word of God, so following this is the judgment of Christ and his soul has no corruption in it His spirit has no corruption in it so God declares Him the Righteousness of God found and judged in Him.
And does not cast Him off but rewards Him with the rewards promised for the Promised one while casting all our sins that Christ took upon His own flesh and body off to be seen no more or remembered again and this means not to bring them back into remembrance and input them into us ever again.
This Sin was Ordained even from Adam to us today to be removed this way so we can be acceptable unto God in our spirit while our flesh dies to sin with Christ whose body died to our sin. This is what baptism is in recognition of and us raising up in the newness of life Christ died for us to obtain.
So we can be together with Christ and there fore with God by the Faith of Christ and our faith it has become unto us who believe and testify to this.
So we are to strive to put the flesh to death in its rule over our body so we can live out of its bondage and in faith and spirit live in Christ for God.
That is the only way for Sin to be ordained to be by God and this being for the removal of it atonement of it. Washing it away and it be just and righteous.
Because there is no unrighteousness in God or his judgment he is perfect and pure and declares the wages of sin to be death.
we can not be rewarded with life and that life everlasting but by this Way Christ came and became for us who had the wages of sin and no other atonement acceptable unto God except that in which He God ordained to be our Sin and our paid wages of Christs death.
God does NOT ORDAIN SIN!
God is responsible for sin. By creating free will creatures, He foreknew that we would sin. That is why He also created a redemption plan from before the creation of humans. God has taken the responsibility for sin on Himself, because He is the only one who can atone for it, through the death of His Son on the cross.
God is not directly responsible for the creation of sin and evil, but in creating the best world possible, in which humans would have the free will to choose to love Him, sin was a necessary evil.
What Calvinists cannot seem to understand is that:
God foreknew that creatures would sin and that some would accept His kind offer of grace in salvation and that others would of their own free will reject it. He also foreknew who would accept and reject grace and all of our free will choices. BUT HE DID NOT FOREORDAIN THEM!
God did not foreordain sin or the free will choice to accept or reject His grace.
Fatalism has been throughly rejected both philosophically and theologically. We do not make decisions because God foreknew that we would make them, God foreknew whatever decisions we freely make.
God is responsible for sin. By creating free will creatures, He foreknew that we would sin. That is why He also created a redemption plan from before the creation of humans. God has taken the responsibility for sin on Himself, because He is the only one who can atone for it, through the death of His Son on the cross.
God is not directly responsible for the creation of sin and evil, but in creating the best world possible, in which humans would have the free will to choose to love Him, sin was a necessary evil.
What Calvinists cannot seem to understand is that:
God foreknew that creatures would sin and that some would accept His kind offer of grace in salvation and that others would of their own free will reject it. He also foreknew who would accept and reject grace and all of our free will choices. BUT HE DID NOT FOREORDAIN THEM!
God did not foreordain sin or the free will choice to accept or reject His grace.
Fatalism has been throughly rejected both philosophically and theologically. We do not make decisions because God foreknew that we would make them, God foreknew whatever decisions we freely make.