God's Creative Genius
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T
I'm currently reading a great book that answers this very question. In short, Creation was perfect before mankind rebelled against God. God knew what would happen, but He gave Adam and Eve the ability to choose life with Him or life apart from Him. Unfortunately they chose the later.
God is perfect, so He created things perfect; any imperfection is due to sin, not the way God made it originally. Indeed, God calls His creation "good" (Hebrew tov) seven times in Genesis 1, and seven is the biblical number of perfection. Furthermore, the seventh time, after God finished his His creative work, He declared the finished product "very good" (Genesis 1:31, Hebrew tov me'od). As will be shown, this is a strong indicator, especially with the explicit teachings above, that the world originally had no death or disease.
Why 'Good' and Not 'Perfect'?
There is a Hebrew word tam that's usually translated 'perfect' or 'without blemish'. Some old-earthers argue that the lack of this word in Genesis could give them a loophole to allow for death, suffering, and disease in God's pre-Fall creation. However, this is not so. The word tam is used of fallen people.
One famous example was Noah, in the plural form tamim because the phrase is "perfect in his generations". However, Noah later got drunk (Genesis 9:21). The singular form tam is also used of Job (Job 1:1), who was likewise not sinless. But again the word refers to completeness and moral integrity, not sinless perfection, since we likewise know that Job confessed his own sinfulness. The word is actually also used of Jacob in Genesis 25:27. However, many Bible translators don't seem to want to admit that Jacob is described so favourably, and instead translate tam as 'plain' or 'quiet' instead of 'perfect'.
So there is no reason that tam would have been used instead of me'od tov to describe a sinless creation. Rather, tov me'od, as the culmination of many occurrences of tov, makes more sense when used to describe the goodness of God's creation and the physical perfection of its completion.
The Genesis Account by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati. pp.78-79
God is perfect, so He created things perfect; any imperfection is due to sin, not the way God made it originally. Indeed, God calls His creation "good" (Hebrew tov) seven times in Genesis 1, and seven is the biblical number of perfection. Furthermore, the seventh time, after God finished his His creative work, He declared the finished product "very good" (Genesis 1:31, Hebrew tov me'od). As will be shown, this is a strong indicator, especially with the explicit teachings above, that the world originally had no death or disease.
Why 'Good' and Not 'Perfect'?
There is a Hebrew word tam that's usually translated 'perfect' or 'without blemish'. Some old-earthers argue that the lack of this word in Genesis could give them a loophole to allow for death, suffering, and disease in God's pre-Fall creation. However, this is not so. The word tam is used of fallen people.
One famous example was Noah, in the plural form tamim because the phrase is "perfect in his generations". However, Noah later got drunk (Genesis 9:21). The singular form tam is also used of Job (Job 1:1), who was likewise not sinless. But again the word refers to completeness and moral integrity, not sinless perfection, since we likewise know that Job confessed his own sinfulness. The word is actually also used of Jacob in Genesis 25:27. However, many Bible translators don't seem to want to admit that Jacob is described so favourably, and instead translate tam as 'plain' or 'quiet' instead of 'perfect'.
So there is no reason that tam would have been used instead of me'od tov to describe a sinless creation. Rather, tov me'od, as the culmination of many occurrences of tov, makes more sense when used to describe the goodness of God's creation and the physical perfection of its completion.
The Genesis Account by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati. pp.78-79
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G
I believe we can see God's wonder and majesty in all the earth. We can all clearly see that God likes diversity and variety throughout creation. So i feel we should all be more accepting of and loving towards each other recognizing that God made us all.
Although we are believers we will still have trouble and tribulation in this life. But in all things and at all times we must praise God and realize this world is not our home.
Although we are believers we will still have trouble and tribulation in this life. But in all things and at all times we must praise God and realize this world is not our home.
A
It's God calling it "good" and "very good," so it's not like "meh" and "not bad." More like "magnificent" and "wonderful." But who has the power to screw up God's "perfect?" He's perfect. Heaven's perfect. Jesus' sacrifice is perfect. Man cannot screw up God's perfect.
Sorry, I don't get into the whole post-modern christian mind-think thing. I'm not preaching some theory. (Guileless to friends too. lol) I also don't get into what original words meant, but that's not because I don't trust that someone really figured out those words. I just have no memory for foreign words, so getting into that would be something like collecting info in a basket with no bottom. I can collect the info all I want, but it falls out of my brain the same moment it goes in.
You really did talk me into thinking the earth is younger than my guestimation of 20,000 years, but I just think there are differences between the words "good," "very good," and "perfect" just because God would have used the same word if they weren't different. And because I believe that the first time a book uses a word, it's best not to use it as a metaphor, simile, or to use it as a comparison, (like with Noah being perfect.) I figure if anyone can write a book right, it's God.
(Frustrating, ain't I? Not a single "normal" argument from me.
)
Sorry, I don't get into the whole post-modern christian mind-think thing. I'm not preaching some theory. (Guileless to friends too. lol) I also don't get into what original words meant, but that's not because I don't trust that someone really figured out those words. I just have no memory for foreign words, so getting into that would be something like collecting info in a basket with no bottom. I can collect the info all I want, but it falls out of my brain the same moment it goes in.
You really did talk me into thinking the earth is younger than my guestimation of 20,000 years, but I just think there are differences between the words "good," "very good," and "perfect" just because God would have used the same word if they weren't different. And because I believe that the first time a book uses a word, it's best not to use it as a metaphor, simile, or to use it as a comparison, (like with Noah being perfect.) I figure if anyone can write a book right, it's God.
(Frustrating, ain't I? Not a single "normal" argument from me.
)
T
Haha! Yes, sister. You are frustrating.
Let's put it this way, the New Heavens and New Earth is meant to be a return to what was lost in the Garden of Eden, except for the added perk that we won't have the ability to sin. If that's the case, how do you explain such a thing? If things are to come full-circle, there needs to be a perfect creation at the beginning of all things. As for the Hebrew words and whatever, I don't expect you to remember them, but they are important and provide context. Dr. Jonathan Sarfati is a biblical creationist, he has nothing to do with post-modern Christianity. If anything, he stands for everything that's not post-modern Christianity. But he's a very learned fellow, a Messianic Jew or Hebrew Christian and hugely passionate about sharing the good news of Christ.
Let's put it this way, the New Heavens and New Earth is meant to be a return to what was lost in the Garden of Eden, except for the added perk that we won't have the ability to sin. If that's the case, how do you explain such a thing? If things are to come full-circle, there needs to be a perfect creation at the beginning of all things. As for the Hebrew words and whatever, I don't expect you to remember them, but they are important and provide context. Dr. Jonathan Sarfati is a biblical creationist, he has nothing to do with post-modern Christianity. If anything, he stands for everything that's not post-modern Christianity. But he's a very learned fellow, a Messianic Jew or Hebrew Christian and hugely passionate about sharing the good news of Christ.
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A
Haha! Yes, sister. You are frustrating.
Let's put it this way, the New Heavens and New Earth is meant to be a return to what was lost in the Garden of Eden, except for the added perk that we won't have the ability to sin. If that's the case, how do you explain such a thing. If things are to come full-circle, there news to be a perfect creation at the beginning of all things. As for the Hebrew words and whatever, I don't expect you to remember them, but they are important and provide context. Dr. Jonathan Sarfati is a biblical creationist, he has nothing to do with post-modern Christianity. If anything, he stands for everything that's not post-modern Christianity. But he's a very learned fellow, a Messianic Jew or Hebrew Christian and hugely passionate about sharing the good news of Christ.
Let's put it this way, the New Heavens and New Earth is meant to be a return to what was lost in the Garden of Eden, except for the added perk that we won't have the ability to sin. If that's the case, how do you explain such a thing. If things are to come full-circle, there news to be a perfect creation at the beginning of all things. As for the Hebrew words and whatever, I don't expect you to remember them, but they are important and provide context. Dr. Jonathan Sarfati is a biblical creationist, he has nothing to do with post-modern Christianity. If anything, he stands for everything that's not post-modern Christianity. But he's a very learned fellow, a Messianic Jew or Hebrew Christian and hugely passionate about sharing the good news of Christ.
Oh, and I'm not putting down Dr. Safati. Isn't he the scientist that figured out some dinosaurs really were warm blooded? And despite the evolutionary scientists climate of rejecting everything creationist scientists says, he actually changed their minds on evolutionary theory with that one? If that's the same guy, (I mean how many NZer scientists are both former chess champions and creationists out there, so I'm thinking he is the same guy) not just not putting him down. He's one of my favorite scientist! I'm just trying to get you to avoid assuming I have usual arguments from the Old Earthers, the Lilithers, those who think we can meld creation with evolution, and many of the other post-modern christian theories bantered around.
What I believe comes from the Bible first. But then I read some of the evolution articles (in easy-to-understand formats like Smithsonian and National Geographic as compared to science journals, which I have trouble understanding too) to figure out where they are wrong or taking ten steps away from original theory and trying to convince me it's only one step. I find it amusing how often they keep changing their minds on "the facts." Kills the whole concept of "facts," but we're not supposed to notice.