God's "Foolishness" of ONE Baptism!

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2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#21
yep

Satan is to powerful, and our flesh is to strong.

It will never happen, but would be amazing if it could.. It will in eternity future though..
I hear you. I would add that until the Sinful Nature has been cut out and removed by Christ, Understanding, Knowledge, and Wisdom will be impossible. But, ask any "said christian" about this and they won't realize that they're lost. All "christians' claim they know the Truth, but the Truth is, is that the vast majority do not know the Truth.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#22
yes a baptism given to those who repented
this is not water baptism. Water is not mentioned. the thing we are baptized into is Christ himeslf. Only God can perform this act.


This happenes after the final judgment. when christ himself baptized all unbelievers into the fires of hell



This is seen in acts 12, romans 6 and gal 5.
“this is not water baptism. Water is not mentioned. the thing we are baptized into is Christ himeslf. Only God can perform this act.”

“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.


And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43-48‬ ‭

they received the spirit because they believed the gospel , peters forst response is “ can anyone forbid them getting baptized in water since they also received the Holy Ghost ?”

to say receiving the spirit is the same as getting baptized for remission is an omission at best creating doctrine where it doesnt exist

we have to be born of water me of the spirit. Two parts of one baptism. God gives the spirit because we hear and believe the gospel , part of the gospel says to get baptized in his name for remission of sins. That’s our act of faith to hear about baptism and act upon what he said it means .

the Holy Spirit doesn’t remit sin Jesus death remits sin when we go under the water d are raised up from the water it’s an act of faith joining his death for our sins.

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

receiving the spirit doesn’t include someone in Jesus death the spirit is about being born new in the gospel , gotta die to sins also that’s baptism and it’s what removes the law from over a person

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s an act of faith you hear what God said and believe it’s true so you act

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to believe the gospel and get baptized for remission of sins thats salvation

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to hear the gospel and believe then get baptized for remission of sins there’s no benefit in arguing such a simple and light yoke. There’s nothing in the Bible that changes what scripture established about baptism not a single place that changes it



it seems your inventing what isn’t there
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#23
So, the question is . . . who can say that their heart has been Circumcised by Christ? Who understands what this is even about?

Through the Circumcision of Christ, what, exactly, has been cut away? And what has the Effect of this been in "your" life? Has it resulted in a total Romans 12:2 Transformation?
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#24
Every time the Bible speaks of baptism it is not always speaking of water baptism. There are different types of baptisms and they aren’t all equal in purpose.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#25
Every time the Bible speaks of baptism it is not always speaking of water baptism. There are different types of baptisms and they aren’t all equal in purpose.
That's right. There are at least five different baptisms mentioned in the NT. But for Christians there are two baptisms: (1) the baptism WITH the Holy Spirit and (2) Christian water baptism by immersion. The one does not exclude or cancel the other.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#26
The baptism into Christ.
The baptism of water.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit.
The baptism of fire.
The baptism of water is the symbolic baptism into Christ = down into death and rising UP into the new man, washed from sin.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit (HS7) is the REAL DEAL and is the OFFICIAL joining of Husband /Wife = Christ and His Bride/Church.

The baptism of Fire is that which burns away the dead branches/works in our lives = presents a blameless virgin Bride.

PEACE
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#27
The baptism of water is the symbolic baptism into Christ = down into death and rising UP into the new man, washed from sin.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit (HS7) is the REAL DEAL and is the OFFICIAL joining of Husband /Wife = Christ and His Bride/Church.

The baptism of Fire is that which burns away the dead branches/works in our lives = presents a blameless virgin Bride.

PEACE
Amen, David. I can testify that I have EXPERIENCED all [three] points that you've listed above. Baptism by Fire was frightening, but what overpowered that remarkable experience was the even more Powerful Peace and Love of being encapsulated within the Spirit (AKA: Indwelling). And as Moses said, I wish that everyone would experience what I have experienced. It changes your life and understanding of things and you cannot ever, ever go back to who you once were. For it is by those latter two experiences that I realized that I am alive simply because God allows me to be. And when a person realizes this Almighty, Omnicient and Holy Power, they stop dinkin' around with worldly ideas and concepts . . . such as H20 purifying a soul, thus paving the way for Salvation.

Numbers 11:29 NLT - "But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit upon them all!"
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#28
Amen, David. I can testify that I have EXPERIENCED all [three] points that you've listed above. Baptism by Fire was frightening, but what overpowered that remarkable experience was the even more Powerful Peace and Love of being encapsulated within the Spirit (AKA: Indwelling). And as Moses said, I wish that everyone would experience what I have experienced. It changes your life and understanding of things and you cannot ever, ever go back to who you once were. For it is by those latter two experiences that I realized that I am alive simply because God allows me to be. And when a person realizes this Almighty, Omnicient and Holy Power, they stop dinkin' around with worldly ideas and concepts . . . such as H20 purifying a soul, thus paving the way for Salvation.

Numbers 11:29 NLT - "But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit upon them all!"
i remember, early in my Salvation, reading this reply from Moses and rejoicing in it.

It is the Spirit that gives Life = Baptism, Circumcision, Healing, Restoration, Understanding, Guidance, TRUTH.

The flesh (religion and outward service) profits a man = NOTHING....................
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#29
So, the question is . . . who can say that their heart has been Circumcised by Christ? Who understands what this is even about?

Through the Circumcision of Christ, what, exactly, has been cut away? And what has the Effect of this been in "your" life? Has it resulted in a total Romans 12:2 Transformation?
This is an uncircumcised heart

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and believing the gospel is what fits the sin away from our heart which cuts it away from our life. For instance this is a slice to the heart of a believer meant to remove me of the flesh from the heart

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we follow the spiritual command for within it will correct the heart issue that causes men to commit adultery. The lustful intentions and fantasy and thoughts

this is the circumcision of our hearts to repent and believe the gospel teachings of Christ that’s his sharp cutting instrument to believe his word

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

when you get baptized your supposed to believe you died for your sins with Christs now your alive with him by spirit through his resurrection. That belief we need to have our flesh circumcised from our heart it removes the guilty stains within our conscience to believe we died and the price is paid for our sins.

that’s what baptism is about dying with and being raised with Christ then water is symbolic of his grave. We go under and raise up with our sins left in the grave as if we rose up from death with Jesus
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#30
This is an uncircumcised heart

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and believing the gospel is what fits the sin away from our heart which cuts it away from our life. For instance this is a slice to the heart of a believer meant to remove me of the flesh from the heart

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we follow the spiritual command for within it will correct the heart issue that causes men to commit adultery. The lustful intentions and fantasy and thoughts

this is the circumcision of our hearts to repent and believe the gospel teachings of Christ that’s his sharp cutting instrument to believe his word

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

when you get baptized your supposed to believe you died for your sins with Christs now your alive with him by spirit through his resurrection. That belief we need to have our flesh circumcised from our heart it removes the guilty stains within our conscience to believe we died and the price is paid for our sins.

that’s what baptism is about dying with and being raised with Christ then water is symbolic of his grave. We go under and raise up with our sins left in the grave as if we rose up from death with Jesus
Scripture provides us with a clear picture of what Circumcision of the Heart is, yet only a tiny handful (not a full handful) of people seem to realize it. It is clearly stated as:

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

But more, what is this Sinful Nature? It is directly associated with . . .

Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

Most people quote Gal 3:13 as saying the Law itself is the Curse, and that's because the NLT seems to be one of the few translations that gets this right. The Law wasn't, and isn't a Curse! It is beautiful! It is Holy!

Romans 7:12 NLT - "But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good."

So the Curse, as Romans 5 diligently points out, stems from the unholy work of Adam and Eve. It is the Curse that derives the Purpose of Christ. And the Purpose of Christ points to the Work of Christ, which is to Redeem us of this Curse! And this is the Promise that God gave to Abraham back in Genesis chapter 17. The Promised Holy Land isn't ONLY about physical land, but it is the Spiritual Land of Milk and Holy designed not only for the Blessed Jews, but for we Gentiles as well. And this Holy Land is not earthly, but it is Spiritual, or, Heaven.

Now, the effect of the Work of Christ is a Transformed "Heart." And this is the Heart of the Gospel . . . to Transform us from the Old Man to the New Man, hence, a Romans 12:2 Holy Transformation.

Romans 12:2 NLT - "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

What does this mean? It means that our Triune God changes our hearts from being dead to being Alive! "Is it really the Trinity that is responsible for Transforming our hearts?" a person might ask? Yes, check this out and be amazed . . .

Deuteronomy 30:6 NLT - "The LORD your God will change your heart and the hearts of all your descendants, so that you will love him with all your heart and soul and so you may live!"

Romans 2:29 NLT - "No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

It is so incredibly clear! Yet, what pastor teaches the utter obvious? Of course pastors know about these verses . . . so we should all march right up to our pastors, get right in their grills and ask for the explanation for why they have kept these Core verses from us. Why? Why have they done this to us? Why have they not shown us the Truth? Why do they refuse to teach us what the True Gospel of Jesus actually is? Why do they refuse to teach us of His three basic and Holy elements?

The PURPOSE of Christ
The WORK of Christ
The EFFECT of Christ

Galatians 1:8-9 KJV - "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Our pastors are in deep "doodoo."
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#31
Baptism is of the spirit, it is of God. We are in the flesh. What is happening is that a fleshly self is changed spiritually by giving a new birth in the spirit. It is a cleaning, a rebirth. What we do in the flesh to symbolize that is of the flesh, the true baptism is of the spirit. It is of God. God is responding to our spirit, not to our fleshly acts.

Never the less, we are made in the image of God, and what we do in the flesh reflects on that image.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,654
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#32
Scripture provides us with a clear picture of what Circumcision of the Heart is, yet only a tiny handful (not a full handful) of people seem to realize it. It is clearly stated as:

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

But more, what is this Sinful Nature? It is directly associated with . . .

Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

Most people quote Gal 3:13 as saying the Law itself is the Curse, and that's because the NLT seems to be one of the few translations that gets this right. The Law wasn't, and isn't a Curse! It is beautiful! It is Holy!

Romans 7:12 NLT - "But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good."

So the Curse, as Romans 5 diligently points out, stems from the unholy work of Adam and Eve. It is the Curse that derives the Purpose of Christ. And the Purpose of Christ points to the Work of Christ, which is to Redeem us of this Curse! And this is the Promise that God gave to Abraham back in Genesis chapter 17. The Promised Holy Land isn't ONLY about physical land, but it is the Spiritual Land of Milk and Holy designed not only for the Blessed Jews, but for we Gentiles as well. And this Holy Land is not earthly, but it is Spiritual, or, Heaven.

Now, the effect of the Work of Christ is a Transformed "Heart." And this is the Heart of the Gospel . . . to Transform us from the Old Man to the New Man, hence, a Romans 12:2 Holy Transformation.

Romans 12:2 NLT - "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

What does this mean? It means that our Triune God changes our hearts from being dead to being Alive! "Is it really the Trinity that is responsible for Transforming our hearts?" a person might ask? Yes, check this out and be amazed . . .

Deuteronomy 30:6 NLT - "The LORD your God will change your heart and the hearts of all your descendants, so that you will love him with all your heart and soul and so you may live!"

Romans 2:29 NLT - "No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

Colossians 2:11 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature."

It is so incredibly clear! Yet, what pastor teaches the utter obvious? Of course pastors know about these verses . . . so we should all march right up to our pastors, get right in their grills and ask for the explanation for why they have kept these Core verses from us. Why? Why have they done this to us? Why have they not shown us the Truth? Why do they refuse to teach us what the True Gospel of Jesus actually is? Why do they refuse to teach us of His three basic and Holy elements?

The PURPOSE of Christ
The WORK of Christ
The EFFECT of Christ

Galatians 1:8-9 KJV - "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Our pastors are in deep "doodoo."
when you say “ Christ performed “ what are you saying tangibly ? What actually are you saying is the circumcision of the heart ?

when you think of the gospel ways look at it like what Jesus said

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when you read later in epistles about things start from believing the gospel. That is actually what circumcises ( changes ) our hearts from this issue caused by Adam partaking of the knowledge of good and evil

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

mankind isn’t meant to have that issue of good and evil conflicting in our minds and hearts. That isn’t what we’re supposed to be that’s why God forbid the knowledge of good and evil it caused mans nature to be conflicted good v evil rather than good as we were made before the knowledge of good and evil

Satan corrupted our hearts with a lie and in Christ he is healing our hearts with the truth

we have corrupt hearts the gospel believing the truth is what changes the heart from a sinners wicked heart to a Christians faithful and pure heart

circumcision is about removing the flesh nature of good and evil from the heart and filling the heart of faith with the gospel truth of Christs kingdom

all the descriptive language of the epistles is always hearkenong back to what Christ said that’s what can save us if we believe

“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ teaches us that the law is not “ don’t commit adultery you sinner “

the law is actually spiritual saying “ remove the lustful thoughts and intents in your heart and you will never want to commit adultery you will be free of lust

the law speaks to flesh and says “ don’t sin sinful flesh “

the gospel says “ overcome the flesh by the spirit deal with the heart and the actions will follow “

Paul says the law is a curse because God said if they broke it it would be an everlasting curse and They broke it.

Paul’s point here you seemed to miss what he’s saying

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the curse of the law is that of you don’t do every bit of it continually you are a transgressor and cursed to death like God warned them in the law

the curse of the law comes from what it says it was always up to them

“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they of course broke the covenant so it became a curse

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5‬ ‭

we need salvstion because of the laws curse of being broken
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#33
when you say “ Christ performed “ what are you saying tangibly ? What actually are you saying is the circumcision of the heart ?
Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

Pastors should have made this clear to their flocks. They have not taught the single most important Biblical concept there is.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
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#34
Satan corrupted our hearts with a lie and in Christ he is healing our hearts with the truth
I would say that the Bible says God placed all of creation under a Curse and it is the Curse that explains the Purpose, Work, and Effect of Christ.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law
Terrible translation. The Law is not a curse, rather, it is Holy and Good.

Romans 7:12 NLT - "But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good."
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,654
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#35
Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

Pastors should have made this clear to their flocks. They have not taught the single most important Biblical concept there is.
yeah pastors should just teach scripture all together honestly and really a few prophets are supposed to speak the pastor is meant to be like an overseer administrative type. One guy getting up at the pulpit each week isn’t biblical.

but yes Paul’s point us the curse of the law is death. He’s quoting from the law itself as he always is when speaking of The law

“And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he that’s stoned is also cursed , he that is strangled he hat is burned alive ect all the laws death sentences are part of its curse for transgressors there are many

Christ died because this is concluded in scripture

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭

Christs death fulfills that for all. The thing is we’re not without jidgement though we are now living by the word of Christ rather than Moses. The law wasn’t made of faith couldn’t save sinners in fact it’s a curse to every sinner.

the gospel is a blessing meant to save sinners
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#36
yeah pastors should just teach scripture all together honestly and really a few prophets are supposed to speak the pastor is meant to be like an overseer administrative type. One guy getting up at the pulpit each week isn’t biblical.

but yes Paul’s point us the curse of the law is death. He’s quoting from the law itself as he always is when speaking of The law

“And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he that’s stoned is also cursed , he that is strangled he hat is burned alive ect all the laws death sentences are part of its curse for transgressors there are many

Christ died because this is concluded in scripture

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭

Christs death fulfills that for all. The thing is we’re not without jidgement though we are now living by the word of Christ rather than Moses. The law wasn’t made of faith couldn’t save sinners in fact it’s a curse to every sinner.

the gospel is a blessing meant to save sinners
Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

To be clear, as the NLT makes it clear, the Law of Moses pronounced the Curse. Or, the Law of Moses is exposing the Curse.

Again, only an extreme few "Christians" of today seem to realize that this is the problem that Christ has come to deal with. Christ came to eradicate the Curse that is associated with our hearts . . . stony hearts.

Ezekiel 11:19 NLT - 19 And I will give them singleness of heart and put a new spirit within them. I will take away their stony, stubborn heart and give them a tender, responsive heart,
Ezekiel 36:26 NLT - 26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.

The Ezekiel passages above describe the Purpose and Work of Christ as Paul cleary described it in Colossians 2:9-15. This is the utter core of the Entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#37
Galatians 3:13 NLT - "But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

To be clear, as the NLT makes it clear, the Law of Moses pronounced the Curse. Or, the Law of Moses is exposing the Curse.

Again, only an extreme few "Christians" of today seem to realize that this is the problem that Christ has come to deal with. Christ came to eradicate the Curse that is associated with our hearts . . . stony hearts.

Ezekiel 11:19 NLT - 19 And I will give them singleness of heart and put a new spirit within them. I will take away their stony, stubborn heart and give them a tender, responsive heart,
Ezekiel 36:26 NLT - 26 And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.

The Ezekiel passages above describe the Purpose and Work of Christ as Paul cleary described it in Colossians 2:9-15. This is the utter core of the Entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.
do you only accept nlt or ? What I’m saying is you have to let the context lead to what the being said


Your quoting this

“But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

but your skipping over what he says the curse is

“But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”

This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.””
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10, 12‬ ‭NLT‬‬

I’m not sure many Christians have ever read the book of the law. If they did they would read that condition “ cursed is anyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the law “

they would also gather if they read what Moses wrote that the law was a law. It wasn’t a blessing or a curse. It offered israel a blessing if they obeyed all
Of it continually. And it promised then a cirse if they turned away and broke it.

the “ curse of the law “ is what Paul’s saying there “ cursed is anyone who doesn’t continue in all things written in the book of Moses to do them “

the curse comes from mans transgression thats what brought the law to mankind we became sinners

Since you prefer nlt


For the law was not intended for people who do what is right. It is for people who are lawless and rebellious, who are ungodly and sinful, who consider nothing sacred and defile what is holy, who kill their father or mother or commit other murders. The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭NLT‬‬

It is not actually Gods law it’s a sinners law

Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins.

But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised.

God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭NLT‬‬

The law came because man became sinners. If people do good there’s no need for any law explaining what not to do. Man became like this and needed a law

“The Lord observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil. So the Lord was sorry he had ever made them and put them on the earth. It broke his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭NLT‬‬

The law of Moses is not from the start it came because mankind became sinners at heart and needed to be told what sin is and that it is death. Needed to be told what not to do rather than just be taught by the lord we had to first learn what sin is and why we have to repent …..because it is death.

the laws purpose was to show us sin and condemn us for our own sins make all
People without excuse and guilty.

“Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.

For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands.

The law simply shows us how sinful we are.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

I would definitely not like this translation but it says the same things as all the others. The law is meant to
Make everyone stand before God knowing thier sins. At that point the law has done its job

Christ his purpose and the purpose of the gospel he preached is to redeem mankind from the curse of the law that holds mankind guilty and condemns us to death for sin.

That’s why Jesus died and how it works for us he died because we sinned under a law to at demands death for sin. He did that to give us the gospel of the kingdom and promise us eterbal
Life even though the law puts sinners to death , Christ and the New Testament remits thier sin imputed by the law through Christs death , and raises them up to a new way of life in Christ a better way

I would try the niv brother the original niv is a really great translation of you don’t like kjv some of the newer versions over word ot of scripture for
My taste but nevertheless carry the same message

The law is fulfilled in Christ but it’s not what determines eternal Life it never was Moses never promised life after death to Anyone. Jesus promised it to all
Who heard his word and believed and followed him to the kingdom

the transgression of the law brought the curse now we have a blessed covenant and the curse is being fulfilled on the earth until the end

this law given to sinners who refused to repent

Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:

And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they chose the curse and Sonora fulfilled as a curse now

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when God speaks its certain he gave then a blessing or curse they chose the curse me fulfilled the curse rather than blessing the curse from transgressing the law is leading us here

“Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Edom, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭34:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sin is the curse , the law defines sin , and holds the sinner guilty , transgressing the law is a curse upon all who transgress once. Once your cursed by the law your cursed d need to have the cirse removed hats where Jesus comes in removing the law because you the sinner are cursed and condemned by it.

the law puts creation to death for sin the gospel gives those who acknowledge and repent new life
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
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#38
do you only accept nlt or ? What I’m saying is you have to let the context lead to what the being said
No. I use all translations available to me. However, of the 15+ translations that I use, the NLT is the only one that gets this right WITHIN the bounds of the context of the Bible.

So, does this mean that you Truly believe that the Law of Moses is an actual Curse? If so, where does that fit in with the context of the Bible?

Below is the KJV translation regarding the Holiness and Goodness of the Law:

Romans 7:12 KJV - "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

Thus, one MUST ask how the KJV can state that the Law is a Curse, yet turn around and state that it is Holy and Good.

Like you state, I find a way to make the Bible make sense, and this means that one MUST recognize the discrepancies such as the one that we're discussing above. To suggest that "Thou shall not murder" is a Curse is insane.

but your skipping over what he says the curse is
No, I'm not skipping anything. Those who do not obey remain under the Curse expressly described in Romans five.

Sorry, but I don't have time to read the entirety of your postings. I appreciate your time and effort, I really do, but it is too much for me to address and also, I highly doubt that either of us is going to change our positions. Why do I say this? Virtually no one, here, ever changes their minds about anything. Few are here to learn; most are here to test their knowledge and see if they can change another's position. And, this is why I have to leave after a short period of time . . . it's just exhausting and frustrating.