God's ONE Baptism For His Body!
- Thread starter GRACE_ambassador
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
God cannot/will not remove those whom He adds in. If He could, then His promises cannot be relied upon. But we know that His promises are perfectly reliable and perfectly dependable. Nevertheless, some branches were removed.
[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
Absolutely true, God can be relied upon.
With all due respect, what I see you doing is forcing pieces to fit. You take the pieces above and they tell you God cannot cut off a branch He added. So you have to say the branch added itself which is impossible and not supported by scripture. God alone does the adding and taking away.
May I suggest taking a closer look at what Paul is telling us.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,
We see God does the breaking off and the adding. The wild branches are being nourished. They are grafted in and being supplied.
20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
We see they stand fast through faith. If their faith wasn't good enough they wouldn't have been added and they wouldn't be standing fast.
22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Paul says provided you continue otherwise. It's up to them to continue.
2 Peter 1 Tells us to add to our faith so that we may not fall.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
What is washed away is the penalty or guilt of our sins. The reality of sinning remains because, although we have become partakers of the divine nature, we still have a sin nature. Sanctification is the process by which God remakes us progressively into the image of Christ. Eventually we will enter heaven and no sin will be there. One preacher put it this way. When we are saved we are freed from the penalty of sin, we are being progressively freed from the power of sin, and one day we will be freed from the presence of sin.
The Bible says that a branch can add itself - temporarily. That is why they fall away because it was not by God that they were added. Otherwise, the verses that I posted simply couldn't be true - it cannot be both ways: that a branch is added by God and yet it falls away.
Branches that temporarily add themselves, Christ never abided in them, even though the for a time they chose to claim Christ. This is the difference: that many claim Christ but few are claimed by Christ. Only those claimed by Christ can truly claim Him- they alone are the true branches, and by which, they alone become those who abide and bear much fruit: unless Christ first abide in someone, they cannot remain in Him; that is, they can only abide in Him because He first abided in them, and if He did, then they cannot be removed as a branch; if He didn't, then they must be removed. They only "abide in Him", IF His words also abide in them - only those in whom He abides, will His words first abide in them - that is how His abiding is manifested. Therefore, those who did/do not become His disciples were never the branches and are cast away. The key is that Christ must first abide in them. From/by that, everything else follows.
May I respectfully suggest you read these verses closely.
[Jhn 15:4-8 KJV]
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Branches that temporarily add themselves, Christ never abided in them, even though the for a time they chose to claim Christ. This is the difference: that many claim Christ but few are claimed by Christ. Only those claimed by Christ can truly claim Him- they alone are the true branches, and by which, they alone become those who abide and bear much fruit: unless Christ first abide in someone, they cannot remain in Him; that is, they can only abide in Him because He first abided in them, and if He did, then they cannot be removed as a branch; if He didn't, then they must be removed. They only "abide in Him", IF His words also abide in them - only those in whom He abides, will His words first abide in them - that is how His abiding is manifested. Therefore, those who did/do not become His disciples were never the branches and are cast away. The key is that Christ must first abide in them. From/by that, everything else follows.
May I respectfully suggest you read these verses closely.
[Jhn 15:4-8 KJV]
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Not by water baptism but by God alone:
[Isa 4:4 KJV]
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
[1Co 6:11 KJV]
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
[Heb 10:22 KJV]
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[Rev 1:5 KJV]
5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[Isa 4:4 KJV]
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
[1Co 6:11 KJV]
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
[Heb 10:22 KJV]
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[Rev 1:5 KJV]
5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Sure. Let's use Acts 2. The Spirit of God comes and moves upon the Apostles and Peter gives a sermon. Afterwards, he calls on people to respond to the salvation offfered in Christ. Most people concentrate on verse 38, the response. But the real action, the action God is taking, takes place in verse 37. Notice 3 phrases: when they HEARD this...were PRICKED in their HEARTS...what shall we DO? When God is working genuine salvation, you will always find these 3 elements. First, they heard...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The mind of the ones being converted is engaged. Second, there was an operation of God on the inside...upon the heart. Third, there will be an operation of God upon the will...what shall we do?
Notice, all this transpires as Peter is preaching. And Peter does what any good preacher should do, he calls for a response. Who do you believe responded? Certainly not everyone. But 3,000 did. Why? Because God worked in their minds, hearts, and wills...the immaterial parts of men. It was only a matter of time until the material parts would follow.
Notice, all this transpires as Peter is preaching. And Peter does what any good preacher should do, he calls for a response. Who do you believe responded? Certainly not everyone. But 3,000 did. Why? Because God worked in their minds, hearts, and wills...the immaterial parts of men. It was only a matter of time until the material parts would follow.
With all sincerity, I'm sorry but it does not say that here or anywhere else. When I first asked you who grafted the branches in, you said God and I agreed with that because that is the truth. Now you want to say a "branch adds itself".
The HS, through Paul, is trying to tell us something in this passage. I want to understand what the passage is telling us and then make sure my understanding of it harmonizes with the rest of scripture. Not take my understanding of other passages and then "make" this one agree with my understanding of the others. The HS used those words to get the point across for a reason.
I'm sure you'll agree at this point we are both wasting our time.
The HS, through Paul, is trying to tell us something in this passage. I want to understand what the passage is telling us and then make sure my understanding of it harmonizes with the rest of scripture. Not take my understanding of other passages and then "make" this one agree with my understanding of the others. The HS used those words to get the point across for a reason.
I'm sure you'll agree at this point we are both wasting our time.
It ain't so just because you say it is.
Being washed, sanctified, justified by the Spirit of God is being converted from the traits of 1 Co 6:9 - 10 (which traits are spiritual, not earthly)? And those who are of such cannot inherit the kingdom of God, but those of 1 Co 11, have been converted from them by the Holy Spirit shall inherit the kingdom. Is it possible to get more converted than that? BTW, the being "washed" means to have been baptized by the Holy Spirit.
[1Co 6:9-11 KJV]
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Being washed, sanctified, justified by the Spirit of God is being converted from the traits of 1 Co 6:9 - 10 (which traits are spiritual, not earthly)? And those who are of such cannot inherit the kingdom of God, but those of 1 Co 11, have been converted from them by the Holy Spirit shall inherit the kingdom. Is it possible to get more converted than that? BTW, the being "washed" means to have been baptized by the Holy Spirit.
[1Co 6:9-11 KJV]
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
What you're saying that you don't do, is exactly what you do - and harmonizing scripture isn't one of them.
You not only force, but you also often use your own self- developed assertions as though they're actually a basis of scripture, when scripture states no such thing - not even close. I, and others, have mentioned this to you before and I've often specifically asked you to produce scriptural references to substantiate your non-scriptural - supposedly scriptural - declarations, and you've failed to do so, ignoring those requests - you don't produce them because you can't produce them, because they don't exist.
It's pretty basic that the Bible says exactly what I said it says regarding the branches - that God guarantees those whom He had chosen to salvation, so that they must remain branches, and that He will not allow to remain branches those whom He hadn't chosen, even if you can't understand it or refuse to accept it - it is neither highly abstract nor theoretical. There is absolutely no schism whatsoever in what I posted, but were that not so, then there definitely would be.
Anyway, I definitely agree with you that we are both very much wasting our time.
You not only force, but you also often use your own self- developed assertions as though they're actually a basis of scripture, when scripture states no such thing - not even close. I, and others, have mentioned this to you before and I've often specifically asked you to produce scriptural references to substantiate your non-scriptural - supposedly scriptural - declarations, and you've failed to do so, ignoring those requests - you don't produce them because you can't produce them, because they don't exist.
It's pretty basic that the Bible says exactly what I said it says regarding the branches - that God guarantees those whom He had chosen to salvation, so that they must remain branches, and that He will not allow to remain branches those whom He hadn't chosen, even if you can't understand it or refuse to accept it - it is neither highly abstract nor theoretical. There is absolutely no schism whatsoever in what I posted, but were that not so, then there definitely would be.
Anyway, I definitely agree with you that we are both very much wasting our time.