GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Lets go back to yesterday's discussion.

LGF claimed yesterday that Abraham had full knowledge of the Torah, observed all its statutes, including the sacrificial laws and the Sabbath!
Your post has no truth in it and rejects a wall of scripture that disagrees with you and neither do you respond to the scriptures in the post that disagree with your theory that God's people did not follow the TORAH before MOSES.

When you were asked for a single scripture that says God's people before Moses did not keep God's TORAH you have to this moment have NOT been able to provide one scripture from the WORD of GOD. Neither can you deny the wall of scripture from God's WORD that says God's people followed God's TORAH before MOSES.

These are God's WORD dear friend not mine I suggest you take it up with God. Our opinions mean nothing ONLY God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. Nothing that you have stated so far is from God's WORD. I suggest you read your bible. The rest of your post is only your opinion over God's WORD that you can not back up with scripture. Yet here is God's WORD that testifies against you.

................................

Here is the wall of scripture again that you deny in order to follow your Catholic heritage...

GOD'S LAW (TORAH) IN GENESIS AND THE SABBATH

Gen 26:5
Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong LAWS - H8451; תּורה תּרה; tôrâh tôrâh; to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

Abraham kept God's TORAH which includes God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the sacrificial laws for remission of SIN and SIN offerings.

Genesis 22
6,
And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7, And Isaac spoke to Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8, And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

13, And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns:and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Burnt offereings were made for remission of SIN. What is SIN? Sin is disobedience to God's WORD and includes breaking God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4). It is God's WORD and his LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN (Romans 3:20)

Romans 3
19,
Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

NOW if GOD tells us that Abraham kept his TORAH (LAWS) then is God's 4th Commandment not part of the TORAH?

Indeed it is. Where does it say in God's WORD that Abraham or any of God's people before MOSES did NOT Keep God's Sabbath?

God says Abraham kept TORAH (10 Commandments and sin offereings). You say Abraham DID NOT keep TORAH (This includes God's 4th Commandment). Who do we believe God or man?

Now if you BELIEVE Abraham did NOT keep God's SABBATH (part of TORAH) then please show the scriptures proving that Abraham did not keep the Sabbath which is part of the TORAH?

God's WORD shows God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the CEREMONIAL laws and ORDINANCES for SIN offerings (TORAH) were kept BEFORE Mt Sinai.

Let's look at God's WORD....

Genesis 26
5,
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Genesis 5
24, And Enoch walked with God:
and he was not; for God took him.

Genesis 6
8,
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9, These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


CONCLUSION:
God's people before Mt Sinai followed him and kept his laws (TORAH). God's Sabbath is a part of God's law (TORAH). There is NO scripture that says God's people including Abraham did NOT keep God's Sabbath. Genesis shows that God's people including Abraham kept his law (TORAH) which includes the Sabbath.

..................

God destroys mankind because of sin......

Genesis 6
5,
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that EVERY IMAGINATION OF THE THOUGHTS OF HIOS HEAT was only EVIL CONTINUALLY.
6, And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8, But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.


What are these CONTINUAL EVIL THOUGHTS?

Matthew 15
19,
For out of the heart proceed EVIL THOUGHTS, MURDERS, ADULTERIES, FORNICATION, THEFTS, FALSE WITNESS, BLASPHEMIES
20, These are the things which defile a man:

Evil is breaking God's Commandments in thought and actions.

Genesis 6
8,
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9, These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Genesis 8:20 And Noah built an altar to the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

CONCLUSION: SIN existed BEFORE Mt Sinai, SIN is disobeying God's WORD and breaking his law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11). The WORLD was destroyed because of SIN (breaking God's LAW). Noah walked with God and was perfect in God's eyes not destroyed because he and his family did NOT practice sin. Noah followed God's LAW and offered SIN offerings for forgiveness of SIN (TORAH)

..................

Cain was punished by God for Murder (6th Commandment Exo 20:13)

Genesis 4
8,
And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9, And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10, And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
11, And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12, When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13, And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

links to....

1 John 3
12,
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13, Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14, We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15, Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

CONCLUSION: SIN existed BEFORE Mt Sinai, SIN is disobeying God's WORD and breaking his law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11). CAIN was punished for the SIN of MURDER when he slew his brother Abel.

..................

In Genesis we also read about Joseph in Egypt as a servant being tempted to commit adultery with Potifer’s wife

Genesis 39
7, And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
8, But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
9, There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back anything from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

If Joseph did NOT know God’s LAW then how did he know he was SINNING against God by committing adultery with Potifer’s wife?


CONCLUSION: SIN existed BEFORE Mt Sinai, SIN is disobeying God's WORD and breaking his law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11). Joseph knew that to commit ADULTERY (7th Commandment; Exodus 20:14) was SIN against God and refused not to SIN.

..................The Mosaic laws for remission of sin (SACRIFICIAL SIN OFFERINGS) were practiced BEFORE Sinai....

Genesis 4
4,
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering.

Genesis 8
20,
And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 Commandments) please read Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:11. God's LAW gives us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20) SIN offereings were only practiced in the OLD Covenant for the remission or forgiveness of SIN (Breaking God's 10 Commandments) If God's people did not have God's LAW why are they offering SIN offereings to God if these laws were only known about in Mt Sinai?

Abraham and his son practiced and knew about sin offerings...

Genesis 22
7,
And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8, And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Exodus 10
25,
And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.

CONCLUSION: SIN existed BEFORE Mt Sinai, SIN is disobeying God's WORD and breaking his law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11). From Abel through to Abraham before MOSES we see God's people obeying God's LAW and providing sin offerings to God for breaking his law. If there was no law (TORAH) there would be no sin and no need for sin offerings.

..................
The Sabbath was also kept by our first parents and also others BEFORE Sinai. The reason God gave the 10 Commandments again was being His people had been slaves in Egypt for 430 years (Exodus 12:40). God delivered his people from Egypt (the World) and needed to re-teach them his ways which were mostly forgotten by this time.

So yep God's LAW and the laws for remission of sin and burnt offerings of the OLD Covenant were indeed practiced BEFORE Sinai.

The Sabbath was made at the 7th Day of the creation week and given to Adam and Eve.

Let's look at the scriptures........

Genesis 2
1,
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2,
And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
3,
And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

RESTED H7673שָׁבַת shabath
(shaw-ɓath') v.to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.
{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}[a primitive root]KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep Sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away. Some points to note from the scriptures...............

v1 God completed creation in 6 days and RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v2
God RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v3
God SET APART the 7TH DAY and made THE 7TH DAY a HOLY DAY
v2
The 7TH DAY is part of the FINISHED WORK of the CREATION WEEKLet's now look at God's 4th commandment............

Exodus 20
8,
Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9,
Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10,
But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11,
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested theSEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

SABBATH H7676 שַׁבָּת shabbath
(shab-bawth') n-e. 1. intermission, a period of temporary rest.2. (specifically) the Sabbath, the seventh day being the day of rest.[intensive from H7673]KJV: (+ every) Sabbath. Root(s): H7673Now who did God make the 7th day a Holy day for? Is he making that day a Holy day for himself? Of course NOT God is already Holy. He has made the day for MANKIND as a HOLY DAY.

Let’s see what Jesus says…………

Mark 2
27,
And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the Sabbath.
The Sabbath was made for WHO? The Sabbath was made for MAN. So here we have the God of creation telling us why the 7th Day was made a Holy day. It was made for MANKIND

STRONGS Greek MAN
G444 ἄνθρωποςanthropos (an'-thrō-pos) n.
1.
(literally) man†-visage (i.e. a man-faced being, a man who has visibly come of age).
2. (concretely, in Hebrew) a clay being (a classification of beings made in the image of God, who made them male and female). 3. (generically, in English) a human being. 4. (indefinitely) a certain man (i.e. someone).
[from G435 and ops “the countenance” (from G3700)] KJV: certain, man Root(s): G435, G3700So the Sabbath was made for Human beings; clay beings (we are made out of the dust); male and female

So God made the 7th day of the week a HOLY day and blessed it for MAN this now ties in very nicely with the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) God says that it is a specific day which is the 7TH DAY OF THE WEEK that he has made to be a HOLY DAY.

Jesus says it was made Holy in the creation week for mankind. All scriptures connect and are in harmony. Genesis where God made the Day a HOLY DAY;

God’s 4th commandment to His people that says to REMEMBER the Sabbath day to KEEP it a HOLY DAY and Jesus stating that the Sabbath was made for MANKIND (Human beings; male and female).

Now if God made the Sabbath for mankind then obviously Adam and Eve had the Sabbath. The GREEK Word for MAN G444 ἄνθρωποςanthropos (an'-thrō-pos) n. is a clay being (a classification of beings made in the image of God, who made them male and female).

There is only two people made out of clay (dust) and that is Adam and Eve
.

Yep God's Sabbath was given to mankind in the Garden of Eden and made in the Creation WEEK. Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE it. Those that do not BELIEVE God's Word are UNBELIVERS and UNBELIEVERS have no part in God's Kingdom................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Sola Scriptura. It is on the WORD of God we stand or fall. You speak your own words over God's so it seems you have already fallen.
 
Last edited:

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
I would suggest you read your bible for yourself rather then turning to someone elses interpretation of it. There is a test to know if someone is following God or not and if someone is a false teacher and God's WORD clearly describes who his people are and who they are not.

Only God's WORD is true and we shoulf believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

FALSE TEACHERS; WOLVES in SHEEPS CLOTHING?

Who do they point you to? Jesus (the WORD of GOD) or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God (word of website over the word of God)?

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; 3:20; James 2:8-12). Those wos CONTINUE IN SIN do not KNOW him who calls them in LOVE to LOVE another.

Many will come to him on that day saying; Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work SIN (iniquity) (Matthew 7:21-23)

They had a form of Godliness but denied God's power of salvation from SIN (1 Tim 3:1-5) and did not KNOW him

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 John 2
3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3
3,
And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

...................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?


Revelation 12
17,
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

Revelation 14
12,
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

...................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?


Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.

...................

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?


Romans 1
5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

Romans 6
1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. 2, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

...................

DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?


Romans 3
31,
Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

...................

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE IN SIN ONCE THEY RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH?


Hebrews 10
26,
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Indeed, those who CONTINUE IN SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
i was asking for good references to support the claim that the sda folks associate Sunday worship with the mark of the beast

for the question of whether Sunday worship actually is the mark of the beast, I'd consult the scriptures, definitely!
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
Your post has no truth in it and rejects a wall of scripture that disagrees with you and neither do you respond to the scriptures in the post that disagree with your theory that God's people did not follow the TORAH before MOSES.

When you were asked for a single scripture that says God's people before Moses did not keep God's TORAH you have to this moment have NOT been able to provide one scripture from the WORD of GOD. Neither can you deny the wall of scripture from God's WORD that says God's people followed God's TORAH before MOSES.

These are God's WORD dear friend not mine I suggest you take it up with God. Our opinions mean nothing ONLY God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. Nothing that you have stated so far is from God's WORD. I suggest you read your bible. The rest of your post is only your opinion over God's WORD that you can not back up with scripture.
I read the entire post eagerly looking for the proof that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was indeed the Torah, or representing the Torah, but alas, not a single bit of proof offered........

I also see that you are trying to question my standing before God...tut tut MR SOLA SCRIPTURA....

Stick to your claims and provide the proof I asked for.
If your claims are true then the Bible will show that.

So, please show me a text where the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is equated to the Torah.....
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
i was asking for good references to support the claim that the sda folks associate Sunday worship with the mark of the beast

for the question of whether Sunday worship actually is the mark of the beast, I'd consult the scriptures, definitely!
Sunday worship is not the Mark of the BEAST it is SIN and breaking God's Commandments. Have a read of REVELATIONS 13-14 No one receives the MARK of the BEAST until it is forced upon people by the 2nd beast power of REV 13 that gives power to the image of the BEAST. That is the KINGDOM forces all to worship the image to the beast through law or legislation under penalty for breaking civil law. None have yet received the MARK of the BEAST until it becomes forced upon you through law.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
I read the entire post eagerly looking for the proof that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was indeed the Torah, or representing the Torah, but alas, not a single bit of proof offered........

I also see that you are trying to question my standing before God...tut tut MR SOLA SCRIPTURA....

Stick to your claims and provide the proof I asked for.
If your claims are true then the Bible will show that.

So, please show me a text where the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is equated to the Torah.....
Ok friend you are free to believe what you like it is between you and God not me and you. :)

These are God's WORD's not mine take it up with God. You only share your own words over God's and everyone has a right to their own opinion.

It is God's WORD that will judge us all however in the last days.

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12).

If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if
we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
Last edited:

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,294
6,667
113
Sunday worship is not the Mark of the BEAST it is SIN and breaking God's Commandments. Have a read of REVELATIONS 13-14 No one receives the MARK of the BEAST until it is forced upon people by the 2nd beast power of REV 13 that gives power to the image of the BEAST. That is the KINGDOM forces all to worship the image to the beast through law or legislation under penalty for breaking civil law. None have yet received the MARK of the BEAST until it becomes forced upon you through law.
since you are in Europe, you might want to research the rfid microchip being used for public transportation in at some countries. if the chip is not the mark, it could very well be a prelude to it.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
since you are in Europe, you might want to research the rfid microchip being used for public transportation in at some countries. if the chip is not the mark, it could very well be a prelude to it.
All through time from Genesis to REVELATIONS and all through history God has only ever poured out his judgements to mankind over SIN and breaking his law. As it was says Jesus in the days of Noah and Sodom so shall it be at the coming of the son of man. The Mark of the BEAST is not over a Microchip it is over SIN.

That is not to say some system such as a microchip may not assist in buying and selling but that in itself is NOT the Mark of the Beast. The MARK of the BEAST will be over SIN or breaking God's LAW the same as it has always been with the judgements of God throughout all time.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
Ok friend you are free to believe what you like it is between you and God not me and you. These are God's WORD's not mine take it up with God. You only share your own words over God's and everyone has a right to their own opinion. It is God's WORD that will judge us all however in the last days.
But you are going to continue to teach and proclaim all sorts of things that cannot be found within Scripture...
Just today you have accused others of either being false teachers or following false teachers.

In the penultimate post to me you accused me of being lost and following Catholic tradition, whatever that means.

Yet you are completely unable to provide a Scriptural proof for a claim that YOU made.
YOU made the claim that Abraham was in full possession of the knowledge of the Torah, to the point of even knowing and practising the full extent of sacrificial laws and observing the Sabbath.
YOU then made another extraordinary claim to try and justify the above claim to the effect that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represented the Torah.

Yet you cannot prove in any way that this is in fact so!
Your response was accuse me of lying...go figure.....

I think that you need to admit that you are wrong, that you are peddling a false Gospel based on false doctrine just like the one that I have exposed here!
Like I said yesterday, true repentance would be well respected on a forum like this.
But currently your reputation and credibility is totally down the toilet

As for me I can continue to do this week in and week out, at my convenience, challenging the false doctrine of the Adventists.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
But you are going to continue to teach and proclaim all sorts of things that cannot be found within Scripture...
Well that is not true. I provide scripture. You provide your own words that disagree with Gods.

Just today you have accused others of either being false teachers or following false teachers.
That is not true either. I provided Gods' WORD. It is God's WORD not mine. If you feel convicted by God's Word maybe you should pray about it.

In the penultimate post to me you accused me of being lost and following Catholic tradition, whatever that means.
No I didn't God's WORD says those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will be LOST and Sunday worship is a tradtion of the Roman Catholic Church. If you follow it you follow the Roman Catholic Churches tradition of Sunday worship.

Yet you are completely unable to provide a Scriptural proof for a claim that YOU made.
Yet I have only posted God's WORD to you. They are God's WORD'S not mine you are free to believe or not believe. I do not judge you. It is between you and God.

YOU made the claim that Abraham was in full possession of the knowledge of the Torah, to the point of even knowing and practising the full extent of sacrificial laws and observing the Sabbath.
No I didn't God did you can read about it here. CLICK ME

YOU then made another extraordinary claim to try and justify the above claim to the effect that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represented the Torah.
No I didn't your mixing up your posts now. I think you are referring to the post on the FIRST LIE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN AND FALSE TEACHERS. Click me

I think that you need to admit that you are wrong, that you are peddling a false Gospel based on false doctrine just like the one that I have exposed here! Like I said yesterday, true repentance would be well respected on a forum like this. But currently your reputation and credibility is totally down the toilet As for me I can continue to do this week in and week out, at my convenience, challenging the false doctrine of the Adventists.
Yet here you still are speaking your own words over God's WORD. Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of the Roman Catholic Church.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12).

If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if
we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
Well that is not true. I provide scripture. You provide your own words that disagree with Gods.
Fine!

The challenge remains: show me the text that proves that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the Torah!
YOU made the claim - time to pony up the proof...
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Fine!

The challenge remains: show me the text that proves that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the Torah!
YOU made the claim - time to pony up the proof...
Tell you what, how about I promise to show you the scripture in relation to the knowledge of Good and EVil representing God's LAW if you can show me one scripture in God's WORD that says that God's people before Moses did not follow God's TORAH?
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
Tell you what, how about I promise to show you the scripture in relation to the knowledge of Good and EVil representing God's LAW if you can show me one scripture in God's WORD that says that God's people before Moses did not follow God's TORAH?
You need to take a course in logic, Sunshine!

I think you know full well that I cannot prove something that doesn't exist - I cannot provide a Scripture for something that does not exist!

If you are determined to "hide" behind this laughable tactic - guess what, your reputation will just continue to slide right down the toilet cistern.

YOU made the claim that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the Torah...
PROVE IT!
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
You need to take a course in logic, Sunshine!

I think you know full well that I cannot prove something that doesn't exist - I cannot provide a Scripture for something that does not exist!

If you are determined to "hide" behind this laughable tactic - guess what, your reputation will just continue to slide right down the toilet cistern.
ABSOLUTELY that is my point you are making claims for which there is NO SCRIPTURE from God's WORD and you reject God's WORD that says;

God's people were keeping God's TORAH before MOSES; CLICK ME
.

Thankyou for being honest.

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12).

If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if
we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
ABSOLUTELY that is my point you are making claims for which there is NO SCRIPTURE from God's WORD and you reject God's WORD that says;

God's people were keeping God's TORAH before MOSES; CLICK ME
.

Thankyou for being honest.
The only thing you have succeeded in doing is twisting my words.
You asked me to provide a proof from silence - not logically possible.

You however, made a claim that everything you say can be proven from Scripture.
You have made another claim that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the Torah.
Ergo, there must be biblical proof of this.....

Please, PROVE IT!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,294
6,667
113
Sunday worship is not the Mark of the BEAST it is SIN and breaking God's Commandments. Have a read of REVELATIONS 13-14 No one receives the MARK of the BEAST until it is forced upon people by the 2nd beast power of REV 13 that gives power to the image of the BEAST. That is the KINGDOM forces all to worship the image to the beast through law or legislation under penalty for breaking civil law. None have yet received the MARK of the BEAST until it becomes forced upon you through law.
the mark of the beast is a physical mark. the greek word is charagma, which means a imprint on a document or coin,.

so, no, not keeping the Sabbath is not the mark. no matter what ellen white says. you have been told about the rfid. spreading across Europe. that's all I can do.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Sunday worship is not the Mark of the BEAST it is SIN and breaking God's Commandments. Have a read of REVELATIONS 13-14 No one receives the MARK of the BEAST until it is forced upon people by the 2nd beast power of REV 13 that gives power to the image of the BEAST. That is the KINGDOM forces all to worship the image to the beast through law or legislation under penalty for breaking civil law. None have yet received the MARK of the BEAST until it becomes forced upon you through law.
right, check it out with the scriptures

but the scriptures won't tell us if the sda folks associate Sunday worship with the mark of the beast

what does it matter? i like to learn about what different groups believe, as well as what other religions believe
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
hi LGF
i didn't see a response to either of these posts

did you want to respond?

i didn't mention the BOOK of MOSES or the TORAH in my answer

i said,
if the book of the covenant here Exodus 24: 7. And he took the book of the covenant

is what Moses wrote here Exodus 24: 4. And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD

then the book of the covenant would contain the ten commandments

do you agree that those two verses, 7 and 4, are talking about the same book?
"Now what do you think was the purpose of both 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) and 2. The laws and ordinances for remission of SIN written in the Mosiac BOOK of the Covenant?"

i believe the purpose of the laws in the old covenant
(whether we put them into two or more categories)
is given here

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.