GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 4:19-24, "The woman said to Him, “Master, I see that You are a prophet Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you people say that in Yerushalayim is the place where one needs to worship. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you shall neither on this mountain, nor in Yerushalayim, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because the deliverance is of the Yehuḏim. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him. The Mighty One is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.”[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 13:14, "For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Zechariah 2:10-13, “Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Tsiyon! For look, I am coming, and shall dwell in your midst,” declares [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “And many nations shall be joined to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]in that day, and they shall become My people. And I shall dwell in your midst. And you shall know that [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts has sent Me to you. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shall inherit Yehuḏah, His portion in the Set-apart Land. And He shall again choose Yerushalayim. Hush, all flesh, before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], for He has roused Himself out of His set-apart dwelling!”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:24, "And the nations, of those who are saved, shall walk in its light, and the sovereigns of the earth bring their esteem into it.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 60:2-4, “For look, darkness covers the earth, and thick darkness the peoples. But [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]arises over you, and His esteem is seen upon you. And the nations shall come to your light, and sovereigns to the brightness of your rising. Lift up your eyes all around and see: all of them have gathered, they have come to you; your sons come from afar, and your daughters are supported on the side.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 4:24, “Yah is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.”[/FONT]
yes, Jesus made a change to the law, imo
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
yes, Jesus made a change to the law, imo
A [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]metathesis, the abolishment of the Levite priesthood to Yahshua after the order of Malak Zadiq

and [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]metatithemi the transferring the Law unto Yahshua[/FONT]
Shown here in Scripture, even breaking down the konie Greek;
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]changed” is word #G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n., transposition, i.e. transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law). [from G3346], KJV: change, removing, translation, Root(s): G3346 [/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis; 1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the priesthood on earth, Levites are abolished, and the priesthood in the heavens is established.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]change” is word #G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v., 1. to transfer., 2. (literally) to transport., 3. (by implication) to exchange., 4. (reflexively) to change sides. [from G3326 and G5087], KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn, Root(s): G3326, G5087[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; 1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the Law has been transferred, not mediated by Levites but mediated by Yahshua the High Priest:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:24-25,"but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to YHWH through Him, ever living to make intercession for them."[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
A metathesis, the abolishment of the Levite priesthood to Yahshua after the order of Malak Zadiq

and metatithemi the transferring the Law unto Yahshua
Shown here in Scripture, even breaking down the konie Greek;


Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."


changed” is word #G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n.,transposition, i.e. transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law). [from G3346], KJV: change, removing, translation, Root(s): G3346



Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
#G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis; 1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established


As in the priesthood on earth, Levites are abolished, and the priesthood in the heavens is established.


Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.


change” is word #G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v., 1. to transfer., 2. (literally) to transport., 3. (by implication) to exchange., 4. (reflexively) to change sides. [from G3326 and G5087], KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn, Root(s): G3326, G5087



Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; 1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another


Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.


As in the Law has been transferred, not mediated by Levites but mediated by Yahshua the High Priest:


John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."


Hebrews 7:24-25,"but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to YHWH through Him, ever living to make intercession for them."
However most people simpy read "change" and make up their own "change" never fully learning the truth, or not even seeking it for that matter. Easier to make a religion off ones imagination or waht feels good. It is my hope hat all those who truly seek will follow His path. None of us are perfect yet that does not change the fact that His way is right.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
A [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]metathesis, the abolishment of the Levite priesthood to Yahshua after the order of Malak Zadiq

and [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]metatithemi the transferring the Law unto Yahshua[/FONT]
Shown here in Scripture, even breaking down the konie Greek;
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]changed” is word #G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis (me-ta'-the-sis) n., transposition, i.e. transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law). [from G3346], KJV: change, removing, translation, Root(s): G3346 [/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3331 μετάθεσις metathesis; 1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the priesthood on earth, Levites are abolished, and the priesthood in the heavens is established.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]change” is word #G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi (me-ta-tiy'-thee-miy) v., 1. to transfer., 2. (literally) to transport., 3. (by implication) to exchange., 4. (reflexively) to change sides. [from G3326 and G5087], KJV: carry over, change, remove, translate, turn, Root(s): G3326, G5087[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; 1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) 1a) to transfer 1b) to change 1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred 1c1) to go or pass over 1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G3346 μετατίθημι metatithemi; From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As in the Law has been transferred, not mediated by Levites but mediated by Yahshua the High Priest:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:24-25,"but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to YHWH through Him, ever living to make intercession for them."[/FONT]
yes, the law as mediated by Jesus is practiced very differently than what the Israelites were told to do
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
yes, the law as mediated by Jesus is practiced very differently than what the Israelites were told to do
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:20, “But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proof this is an end time prophecy is found here, for the Messiah has not yet returned;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 21:30-33, “As soon as they produce leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is already near. In the same way, when you see these things taking place, you will know that the kingdom of God is near. I tell all of you with certainty, this generation will not disappear until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:32-36, “Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches become tender and it produces leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, you will know that the Son of Man is near, right at the door. I tell all of you with certainty, this generation will not disappear until these things happen. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. No one knows when that day or hour will come—not the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."[/FONT]
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
However most people simpy read "change" and make up their own "change" never fully learning the truth, or not even seeking it for that matter. Easier to make a religion off ones imagination or waht feels good. It is my hope hat all those who truly seek will follow His path. None of us are perfect yet that does not change the fact that His way is right.
oddly enough, focusing on law keeping can actually feel good

so something to be suspicious of, imo
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:20, “But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proof this is an end time prophecy is found here, for the Messiah has not yet returned;[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 21:30-33, “As soon as they produce leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is already near. In the same way, when you see these things taking place, you will know that the kingdom of God is near. I tell all of you with certainty, this generation will not disappear until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:32-36, “Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branches become tender and it produces leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, you will know that the Son of Man is near, right at the door. I tell all of you with certainty, this generation will not disappear until these things happen. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. No one knows when that day or hour will come—not the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."[/FONT]
"pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the*Sabbath Day"

remembering that the practice of the Sabbath day is now mediated by Jesus
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Paul, as a representative is Jesus, Also speaks about how the law is mediated

Galatians 2: 14. But when I saw that they didn't walk uprightly according to the truth of the Good News, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live as the Gentiles do, and not as the Jews do, why do you compel the Gentiles to live as the Jews do?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
oddly enough, focusing on law keeping can actually feel good

so something to be suspicious of, imo


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil righteous, and righteous evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiyl 22:25-26, "There is a conspiracy of her prophets in her midst, like a roaring lion ravening the prey: they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made many widows in the midst of her. Her priests have violated My Law, and have profaned My holy things; they have put no difference between the holy and profane, they have not taught the difference between the unclean and the clean; they have shut their eyes to the keeping of My Sabbaths, and I am profaned among them."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:11-14, "2:11, "But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly wrong."2:12, "Until some men arrived from James, he was in the habit of eating with the gentiles, but after those men came, he withdrew from the gentiles and would not associate with them any longer, because he was afraid of the circumcision party."2:13, "The other Jews also joined him in this hypocritical behavior, to the extent that even Barnabas was caught up in their hypocrisy."2:14, "But when I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel, I told Cephas in front of everyone, “Though you are a Jew, you have been living like a gentile and not like a Jew. So how can you insist that the gentiles must live like Jews?”"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 9:19-21, “Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The 12 were sent to the all nations Gentiles included by the Messiah Himself:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]nations” is word #G1484 ἔθνος ethnos (eth'-nos) n., 1. a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe., 2. (specially) a foreign (non-Jewish) one, Gentiles., 3. (usually, by implication) pagan., [probably from G1486], KJV: Gentile, heathen, nation, people, Root(s): G1486[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yet Paul says Peter was sent to the Jews:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:7-8, “In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised. For the one who worked through Peter by making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me by sending me to the Gentiles.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]However Peter says he was sent to the Gentiles:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Timothy 2:7, "For this reason I was appointed to be an announcer, an apostle, and a faithful and true teacher of the gentiles. (I am telling you the truth. I am not lying.)"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:9[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]TS 2009[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So when James, Cephas, and John (who were reputed to be leaders) recognized the grace that had been given me, they gave Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the gentiles and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In fact, James, Peter, and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G1380 δοκέω dokeo (d̮o-ke'-ō) v., 1. to suppose, consider, imagine., 2. (by implication) to seem (truthfully or uncertainly)., 3. (by inference) to presume., 4. (also) to repute or estimate., 5. (by extension) to be of reputation, estimable. {(used only in an alternate in certain tenses)} [a prolonged form of a primary verb, δόκω dốkō of the same meaning], KJV: be accounted, (of own) please(-ure), be of reputation, seem (good), suppose, think, trow, Compare: G1166, G1209, G2309, G3543, G3049, G5426, See also: G1384[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Paul is literally saying that the apostles James and Cephas and John are “supposed, considered, seem, or presume” to be “pillars.” These are men that walked with Jesus daily and Jesus Himself called His apostles, training them to carry His doctrine to the world. Yet Paul says they “seemed to be pillars”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 19:28, "Jesus told them, “I tell all of you with certainty, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne in the renewed creation, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, governing the twelve tribes of Israel."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:10-14, “He carried me away in the Spirit to a large, high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven. The glory of God was its radiance, and its light was like a valuable gem, like jasper, as clear as crystal. It had a large, high wall with twelve gates. Twelve angels were at the gates, and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel were written on the gates. There were three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the lamb were written on them."[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

Paul, as a representative is Jesus, Also speaks about how the law is mediated

Galatians 2: 14. But when I saw that they didn't walk uprightly according to the truth of the Good News, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live as the Gentiles do, and not as the Jews do, why do you compel the Gentiles to live as the Jews do?
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what YHWH says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying; YHWH has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what YHWH says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YHWH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
[/FONT]
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil righteous, and righteous evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiyl 22:25-26, "There is a conspiracy of her prophets in her midst, like a roaring lion ravening the prey: they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made many widows in the midst of her. Her priests have violated My Law, and have profaned My holy things; they have put no difference between the holy and profane, they have not taught the difference between the unclean and the clean; they have shut their eyes to the keeping of My Sabbaths, and I am profaned among them."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 5:17-19, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one yod or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]
Amen to those scriptures

Psalm 19: 7. The law of the Lord is good, giving new life to the soul: the witness of the Lord is certain, giving wisdom to the foolish. 8. The orders of the Lord are right, making glad the heart: the rule of the Lord is holy, giving light to the eyes. 9. The fear of the Lord is clean, and has no end; the decisions of the Lord are true and full of righteousness. 10. More to be desired are they than gold, even than much shining gold; sweeter than the dropping honey. - Bible Offline
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:11-14, "2:11, "But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly wrong."2:12, "Until some men arrived from James, he was in the habit of eating with the gentiles, but after those men came, he withdrew from the gentiles and would not associate with them any longer, because he was afraid of the circumcision party."2:13, "The other Jews also joined him in this hypocritical behavior, to the extent that even Barnabas was caught up in their hypocrisy."2:14, "But when I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel, I told Cephas in front of everyone, “Though you are a Jew, you have been living like a gentile and not like a Jew. So how can you insist that the gentiles must live like Jews?”"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 9:19-21, “Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The 12 were sent to the all nations Gentiles included by the Messiah Himself:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]nations” is word #G1484 ἔθνος ethnos (eth'-nos) n., 1. a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe., 2. (specially) a foreign (non-Jewish) one, Gentiles., 3. (usually, by implication) pagan., [probably from G1486], KJV: Gentile, heathen, nation, people, Root(s): G1486[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yet Paul says Peter was sent to the Jews:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:7-8, “In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised. For the one who worked through Peter by making him an apostle to the circumcised also worked through me by sending me to the Gentiles.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]However Peter says he was sent to the Gentiles:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1Timothy 2:7, "For this reason I was appointed to be an announcer, an apostle, and a faithful and true teacher of the gentiles. (I am telling you the truth. I am not lying.)"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Galatians 2:9[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]TS 2009[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So when James, Cephas, and John (who were reputed to be leaders) recognized the grace that had been given me, they gave Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the gentiles and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In fact, James, Peter, and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]#G1380 δοκέω dokeo (d̮o-ke'-ō) v., 1. to suppose, consider, imagine., 2. (by implication) to seem (truthfully or uncertainly)., 3. (by inference) to presume., 4. (also) to repute or estimate., 5. (by extension) to be of reputation, estimable. {(used only in an alternate in certain tenses)} [a prolonged form of a primary verb, δόκω dốkō of the same meaning], KJV: be accounted, (of own) please(-ure), be of reputation, seem (good), suppose, think, trow, Compare: G1166, G1209, G2309, G3543, G3049, G5426, See also: G1384[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Paul is literally saying that the apostles James and Cephas and John are “supposed, considered, seem, or presume” to be “pillars.” These are men that walked with Jesus daily and Jesus Himself called His apostles, training them to carry His doctrine to the world. Yet Paul says they “seemed to be pillars”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 19:28, "Jesus told them, “I tell all of you with certainty, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne in the renewed creation, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, governing the twelve tribes of Israel."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 21:10-14, “He carried me away in the Spirit to a large, high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven. The glory of God was its radiance, and its light was like a valuable gem, like jasper, as clear as crystal. It had a large, high wall with twelve gates. Twelve angels were at the gates, and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel were written on the gates. There were three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the lamb were written on them."[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what YHWH says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying; YHWH has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what YHWH says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YHWH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
[/FONT]
yes, one Torah

now mediated by Jesus

not practiced as the Israelites were told to
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
1 Corinthians 8: 9. But be careful that by no means does this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to the weak. - Bible Offline

Important to remember!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
1 Corinthians 10: 27. But if one of those who don't believe invites you to a meal, and you are inclined to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no questions for the sake of conscience.

not what the Israelites were told in the wilderness
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
1 Corinthians 8: 9. But be careful that by no means does this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to the weak. - Bible Offline

Important to remember!
Most people twist "Law of Liberty" into ability to do things contrary to YHWH...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 119:44-45, "That I might guard Your Law continually, Forever and ever; That I might walk in liberty, For I have sought Your orders;"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 1:22-25, “And become doers of the Word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. Because if anyone is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror, for he looks at himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what he was like. But he that looked into the perfect Law of liberty, and continues in it, not becoming a hearer that forgets, but a doer of work, this one shall be blessed in his doing.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:8-12, “If you truly accomplish the sovereign Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you do well, but if you show partiality, you commit sin, being found guilty by the Law as transgressors. For whoever shall guard all the Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” (Exo 20:14) also said, “Do not murder.” (Exo 20:13) Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of Law. So speak and so do as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.”[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
1 Corinthians 10: 27. But if one of those who don't believe invites you to a meal, and you are inclined to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no questions for the sake of conscience.

not what the Israelites were told in the wilderness
OK, eat anything right? and all is Lawful?

So murder is Lawful? All right?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 15:28-29, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 10:23-33, “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.” If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved."


[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 10:9-10, “If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with his heart and is justified, and declares with his mouth and is saved.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:21, “Not everyone who keeps saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will get into the kingdom from heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Laughable.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 7:1-23, [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed – hands, they found fault. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.) [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites – as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]8 For laying aside the Law of YHWH, you hold the tradition of men! [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of YHWH, so that you may keep your own tradition![/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So clearly Yahshua the Messiah rebukes them for not only making their own "laws" but actually casting aside the Laws of YHWH. Since foods being clean or unclean is a common understanding attached to this passage, let us consider if food Laws are man made or if the Creator made these Laws.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 7:1-2, "Then YHWH said to Noah: Come into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen you righteous before Me in this generation. You shall take with you seven pairs of every clean animal, a male and his female; two of animals that are unclean, a male and his female;"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 11:1-2, "And YHWH spoke to Mosheh and Aaron, saying to them: Speak to the children of Israyl, saying; These are the animals you may eat among all the beasts upon the land" 43-44, "You shall not make yourselves abominable with any creature that moves about on the ground. Do not defile yourselves by means of them, nor be made unclean by them. I am YHWH your Heavenly Father. You shall therefore consecrate and sanctify yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy. Neither shall you defile yourselves with any creature that moves about on the ground." 46-47, "This is the Law of the animals, and the birds, and every living thing that moves in the waters, and every creature that moves about on the ground. You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean – between the animal that may be eaten, and the animal that may not be eaten."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]We can see these Laws literally came directly from the mouth of YHWH, so when Messiah said: "How well you reject the Law of YHWH, so that you may keep your own tradition!" It is clear He is not rebuking them for telling people to follow YHWH's food Laws, but for their pharisee hand washing "law;" Mark 7:5, “Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malakyah 3:6-7, "For I am YHWH, I change not; therefore you sons of Yaaqob are not consumed. Ever since the days of your fathers you have turned away from My ordinances, and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you! says YHWH of hosts. But you said; How will we return?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]10 For Mosheh said: Honor your father and your mother; and: Whoever curses father or mother, let him be put to death; [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11 But you say; If a man will say to his father or mother: Anything of mine which might have benefited you is qorban (that is, a gift set apart for YHWH)-- [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]12 You excuse him from doing what he is obligated to do for his father and his mother; [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]13 Making the Laws of YHWH of no effect through your tradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]More evidence of the pharisees adding their own laws to the people why excusing themselves from following YHWH's Law.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]14 And when He had called all the people to Him, He said to them: Everyone, listen to Me and understand! [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]15 There is nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are things which defile the man. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]16 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear! [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Because Messiah say: "nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him" many that want to reject YHWH’s food Laws say see I can eat! But when did context of Scripture not matter? In context the entire passage is about eating with "unwashed--hands." Can we completely remove it from its context and expect to get the true meaning? Also if you consider verse 17, "His disciples asked Him about the parable," yet "all things are clean food" is taught as doctrine, not as parable.....… Again in context verse 17, parable. SO Messiah proceeds to explain further:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18 He said to them; Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]19 Because it does not enter into his heart; mind, but his stomach, and then into the toilet as all food is eliminated? [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Now this is where the deception comes in, as you see I have shown verse 19 translated 2 different ways. Which one is correct? The second translation is the much more common translation, here is a short list of translations that match the second translation (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean): New International Version, New Living Translation, English Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible, NET Bible, GOD'S WORD Translation, English Revised Version, Weymouth New Testament.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]We will look at the original language, but first I want to mention again, CONTEXT, can we somehow go from the whole topic being about a hand washing ritual and unclean animals not even being in the discussion to unclean animals are now food?


[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3588 [e] tēn τὴν the Art-AFS[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2588 [e] kardian καρδίαν heart, N-AFS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]235 [e] all’ ἀλλ’ but Conj[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3588 [e] tēn τὴν the Art-AFS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2836 [e] koilian κοιλίαν, belly, N-AFS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3588 [e] ton τὸν the Art-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]856 [e] aphedrōna ἀφεδρῶνα draught N-AMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1607 [e] ekporeuetai ἐκπορεύεται, goes out. V-PIM/P-3S[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2511 [e] katharizōn καθαρίζων purifying V-PPA-NMS[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3956 [e] panta πάντα all Adj-ANP[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]3588 [e] ta τὰ the Art-ANP[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1033 [e] brōmata βρώματα; food. N-ANP[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The first thing you will notice is the words, "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean," are completely absent. It is only included in some translations because someone added the words into the margin of an ancient text, not even into the actual sentence, but on the margin (side) of the page. Any who made copies of this text or translations and included it into the verses were committing forgery. Before moving on, I want to ask, why did someone feel the need to forge words into the text that were not originally there? In my opinion to add as commentary would have been factually wrong according to the meaning of the text, but acceptable because commentary is one opinion of what the text means, but to add it to the text itself is deception plain and simple.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]19 Because it does not enter into his heart but his stomach, and then into the toilet (856) as all food is cleansed out (2511)?[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]toilet” is word #G856 – aphedrón: a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain, Original Word: ἀφεδρών, ῶνος, ὁ, Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine, Transliteration: aphedrón, Phonetic Spelling: (af-ed-rone'), Short Definition: a drain, latrine, Definition: a drain, latrine, Word Origin – from apo and hedraios, Definition – a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]cleansed out” is word #G2511 - katharizó: to cleanse, Original Word: καθαρίζω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: katharizó, Phonetic Spelling: (kath-ar-id'-zo), Short Definition: I make clean, Definition: I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context., Word Origin - from katharos, Definition - to cleanse[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]20 Then He said: That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man; [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]21 For from within – out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]22 Thefts, lust, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness-- [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]No this is not about declaring foods clean, it is about the pharisees making their own laws, enforcing them upon others and making a show they are holy with their made up laws, but Messiah is saying it is evil from within which should be guarded against. This exact same account is also detailed in Mattithyah 15, and this is also shown there:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of YHWH by your traditions?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 15:17, "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters in at the mouth goes into the stomach, and then is cast out in elimination?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]But is we keep reading we see the meaning of the PARABLE:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 7:17, " But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Kepha is Peter, so if all foods were cleansed why did Kepha years later still not eat unclean food?[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 10:14, "But Kepha said; By no means, Ruler, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Because Mark 7 & and Matt 15 were not about food but a pharisee hand washing ritual as the parable is explained here:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man – but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As Acts 10 was not about food either:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but YHWH has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So in Mattithyah the parable is fully explained, yet in Mark it is not, is it possible that is why those false words were added to Mark 7:19? If they were added to Mattithyah 15, it would have been a contradiction, but Mark having not being fully explained, it left the door open? Again the words “thus Jesus declared all foods clean” are a clear forgery[/FONT]
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,881
1,230
113
Australia
Before you can say the law was changed or abolished which many of you are doing you need to understand that there are two laws, and this is easily proven by looking at the following verses.

1. Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

But wait there are verses that say the law remains.

2. Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

IS THE WORD CONTRADICTING ITSELF?
NO
There are two laws and the laws that the Jews were trying to force on the gentiles had been fulfilled at the cross and the Ten commandments are eternal by nature. Some laws did get abolished at the cross, some remain.

Is is acceptable to kill and steal today? Can i have other Gods or take the Lords name in vain today? No because these laws are still very much applicable.

Jesus kept the Sabbath and didn't say to stop keeping it anywhere.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
Before you can say the law was changed or abolished which many of you are doing you need to understand that there are two laws, and this is easily proven by looking at the following verses.

1. Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

But wait there are verses that say the law remains.

2. Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

IS THE WORD CONTRADICTING ITSELF?
NO
There are two laws and the laws that the Jews were trying to force on the gentiles had been fulfilled at the cross and the Ten commandments are eternal by nature. Some laws did get abolished at the cross, some remain.

Is is acceptable to kill and steal today? Can i have other Gods or take the Lords name in vain today? No because these laws are still very much applicable.

Jesus kept the Sabbath and didn't say to stop keeping it anywhere.
The Torah is the Torah it cannot be separated, parcelled up to support weird doctrine!
The Ten commandments are part of the Torah and the Torah is integral to the Sinaitic covenant.
The Sinaitic covenant is no longer operational.
It has been abrogated by the New covenant....
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,788
13,546
113
Jesus didn't say stop making sacrifices for atonement. But we don't, because of knowledge of Him and what He has done we know it is not necessary.

Jesus didn't say stop wearing tzitzit. He didn't say stop circumcision. He didn't say stop keeping dietary laws. But because of knowledge of Him and what He has done we know we don't have to keep these things.

The point is that just because we don't have a verse in Matthew with Jesus specifically saying Gentiles who come to faith don't have to keep sabbath according to the law of Moses we can't conclude that it remains as a law for us. That's very poor reasoning that has not been thought through.