GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Jun 5, 2017
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Hi LGF, None of your posts can be taken as credible..
Really Phil then prove your claims provide any post I have written and let's discuss it with God's Word and let God's Word be the judge. You do know God's Word right? Because your making the claims that your interpretation is credible and mine is not. So let's discuss what you believe I have said that is not credible and share God's Word and help each other.

Look forward to your reply but I think I am going to be waiting for a long time because if you really did know God's Word and your accusations were true I am sure we would be discussing them already.....
 
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phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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Really Phil then prove your claims provide any post I have written and let's discuss it with God's Word and let God's Word be the judge. You do know God's Word right? Because your making the claims that your interpretation is credible and mine is not. So let's discuss what you believe I have said that is not credible and share God's Word and help each other.

Look forward to your reply but I think I am going to be waiting for a long time so far because if you really did know God's Word and your accusations were true I am sure we would be discussing it already.....

HI LGF,

People have tried to discuss scripture with you. Unfortunately you are blinded and beholden to the SDA man made doctrine, especially with its failed and false prophecies, and especially when the failed prophetess words are deemed as 'inspired'.

So lets discuss God's word. The bible says Jesus bore our sins, But the SDA/Sabbatarians have this false horrendous doctrine below:


SATAN BEARS OUR SINS

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).

"Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 475.

sda_book_23
 
Jun 5, 2017
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HI LGF, People have tried to discuss scripture with you.
Really Phil? Which posts and what scripture? Do you want to share God's Word? I have not seen any from you so far and it does not seem you have anything to share. Does this not worry you that maybe it is you that do not know God's Word?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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Really Phil? Which posts and what scripture? Do you want to share God's Word? I have not seen any from you so far and it does not seem you know it. Does this not worry you that maybe it is you that do not understand the meaning of the scriptures?

Hi LGF,

Your silence on the false man made doctrines of SDA is very telling indeed.


So lets discuss God's word. The bible says Jesus bore our sins, But the SDA/Sabbatarians have this false horrendous doctrine below:

SATAN BEARS OUR SINS

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).

"Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 475.

sda_book_23


 
Jun 5, 2017
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Hi LGF,
Your silence on the false man made doctrines of SDA is very telling indeed.
Really Phil? I would of thought it is your silence on not being able to prove any of your accusations with scripture or provide me with one post I have made that you believe is deception and error that is indeed very telling. How can you make accusations about anyone and not support your claims with proof backed up with scripture? Does it not worry you Phil that you are proclaiming something you do not understand?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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Really Phil? I would of thought it is your silence on not being able to prove your accusations with scripture that is indeed very telling. How can you make accusations about anyone and not support your claims with proof backed up with scripture? Does it not worry you Phil that you are proclaiming something you do not understand?
This says it all:

SATAN BEARS OUR SINS

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).

"Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 475.

sda_book_23
 
Jun 5, 2017
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This says it all:
What does it say as you haven't said anything yet only posted something from someones website. You haven't posted anything you claim that I have said is deception and error and you have not provided any scriptures. Do you know God's Word for yourself Phil?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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What does it say you haven't said anything yet only posted something from someones website. Do you know God's Word for yourself Phil?

This say it all, and it gives reference to the SDA source it was taken from ;)

SATAN BEARS OUR SINS

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).

"Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 475.

sda_book_23
 
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This say it all, and it gives reference to the SDA source it was taken from ;)
And this has what to do with your claims that I have made posts that are deception and error that you have not been able to prove or provide any posts supporting your claim and cannot support your claims using God's Word? Maybe it is time to re-consider what you believe Phil if you do not know God's Word and you do not wish to discuss it. Or are you feeling a little uncomfortable now and wish to change the topic again? We should trust and BELIEVE God's Word my dear friend..
 
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phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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And this has what to do with your claims that I have made posts that are deception and error that you have not been able to prove or provide any posts supporting your claim and support your claims with God's Word? Maybe it is time to re-consider what you believe Phil if you do not know God's Word and you do not wish to discuss it. Or are you feeling a little uncomfortable now and wish to change the topic again?

Hi LGF,

It is amazing that you have not written your normal lengthy posts to refute this horrendous manmade doctrine.. Of course you must agree with it. That is why your posts are not credible scriptural witness.


This say it all, and it gives reference to the SDA source it was taken from ;)

SATAN BEARS OUR SINS

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).

"Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 475.

sda_book_23
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Hi LGF,
It is amazing that you have not written your normal lengthy posts to refute this horrendous manmade doctrine..
Really Phil?

You want to move onto another topic now without answering my questions? Which posts and what scripture do you believe I have posted that are deception and in error? If you cannot provide me with any posts or supporting scripture from God's Word why make such claims?

Isn't this breaking the 9th commandment? Maybe you did so by accident?

Do you want to share God's Word? I have not seen any from you so far and it does not seem you have anything to share. Does this not worry you that maybe it is you that do not know God's Word?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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Really Phil?

You want to move onto another topic now without answering my questions? Which posts and what scripture do you believe I have posted that are deception and in error? If you cannot provide me with any posts or supporting scripture from God's Word why make such claims?

Isn't this breaking the 9th commandment? Maybe you did so by accident?

Do you want to share God's Word? I have not seen any from you so far and it does not seem you have anything to share. Does this not worry you that maybe it is you that do not know God's Word?

Hi LGF,

It is amazing that you have not written your normal lengthy posts to refute this horrendous manmade doctrine.. Of course you must agree with it. That is why your posts are not credible scriptural witness.


This say it all, and it gives reference to the SDA source it was taken from ;)

SATAN BEARS OUR SINS

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).

"Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 475.

sda_book_23
 
Jun 5, 2017
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Hi LGF, It is amazing that you have not written your normal lengthy posts to refute this horrendous manmade doctrine..
So Phil,

You cannot respond to my posts so it's now time for you to spam the same post over and over because you cannot reply? I thought as much. It is ok you do not have to reply to my questions I can see you are a little confused to know how to respond.

It should worry you however, that you do not know God's Word because it is only through God's Word that any of us can know the truth (Jesus) and it is God's Word that will judge us all on judgement day.

It is not too late to seek him and call upon him while he is near....

May prayer for you Phil is that you may know him who loves all and see him through His Word.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
5,900
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So Phil,

You cannot respond to my posts so it's now time for you to spam the same post over and over because you cannot reply? I thought as much. It is ok you do not have to reply to my questions I can see you are a little confused to know how to respond.

It should worry you however, that you do not know God's Word because it is only through God's Word that any of us can know the truth (Jesus) and it is God's Word that will judge us all on judgement day.

It is not too late to seek him and call upon him while he is near....

May prayer for you Phil is that you may know him who loves all and see him through His Word.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word

Hi LGF,

It is amazing that you have not written your normal lengthy posts to refute this horrendous manmade doctrine.. Of course you must agree with it. That is why your posts are not credible scriptural witness.


This say it all, and it gives reference to the SDA source it was taken from ;)

SATAN BEARS OUR SINS

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).

"Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 475.

sda_book_23
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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it is very simple- yes I believe this, or no I do not. not hard to answer.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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these verses were said to Israel at Sinai. not to the whole gentile world.
Sabbatarians cannot seem to grasp that, mix the old and new covenants and insist on turning the Sabbath day into an idol. :rolleyes:

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IMG_0506.JPG

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

"No one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins." (Luke 5:37-38).
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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MarcR

Indeed you are right about the immediate context, But there is a greater context to be found in the passages of scripture as it is written:

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

The Old Testament is primarily about Jesus and thus while we acknowledge the immediate context we must also see Christ in this also. I am sure you know the general rule is that the context about Christ should not destroy the prime context. In other words, we can't take from the verse something that would destroy the original context.

Jesus came to complete the prophets as it is written:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Jesus fulfils both the law and the prophets. So we must see the messiah in these passages as the main goal.




Matthew and the New Testament writers got this when they said things like:

Mat_2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

This is of course taken from here:

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

But one would quickly see that the immediate context is actually about Israel coming out of Egypt at the beginning.

Only when one understands the principles that Jesus taught that the scriptures are actually about Jesus primarily then do we find the true meaning of the scripture.

That is just one example but there are many as I am sure you are aware.

So in regards to Isaiah 8 we do indeed see what you stated but if that was all we took then we would be as the Jews as it is written:

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.


So we need to be careful that we do not deny Christ in the Old Testament When Jesus taught it was about Him and the Disciples and writers of the new testament saw Christ in places that only those who know its about Him would see even though the context was something else.

It is interesting then to take only a few notes from this chapter though there are more:

Isa 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

does this sound familiar?

Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

2Co_12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Is there no relation?



Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

So we are not to seek to familiar spirits etc is this not true to this day also?

SO what is the test if they are true from God or not?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Is it not still true that the law and the testimony are of God? Have they been removed?

as it is written:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

And again:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Satan in the last day hates those who have the commandments/law and the testimony of Jesus which the law and the prophets are really about Jesus as seen.

John uses the same language of Isaiah 8 saying:

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

So it is before also:

Isa 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Isa 8:15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Is this not Christ?

As it is written concerning Jesus:

1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.


and Paul quoting both Isaiah 8 and 28 says:

Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

28:16 is also used here:

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

So we see that Paul and Peter both saw Christ in these passages, and of Christ it is said:

Isa 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Indeed there is plenty of evidence to show that this is about Jesus.

The test is just as sure today as it was then:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

For if they are from Christ they will have had the law sealed in them by Christ by the holy Spirit. They will also bear witness to the testimony of the Prophets as the new testament writers did.

The veil being lifted that we may see Jesus in all the scriptures.

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Isa 42:22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
Isa 42:23 Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come?
Isa 42:24 Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.
This is all pretty good except for your little spin on the end.

Its subtle. And its why we can't trust scripture interpretation from SDA's and judaizers.

Why not, though? Because they have the same view of the law in both the NT and OT. That is a wrong view.


The Lord changed the law. The Lord also changed the testimony. The testimony in the OT was about what God did for the Israelites in bringing them out of Egypt. The Law in the OT was written on stone.

The testimony in the NT is what the Lord Jesus Christ does for each one of us, personally. It is our own testimony and not a general 'the testimony'.

The Law in the NT has also changed. It changed from something we work at (a carnal commandment) to something we don't work at (a spiritual law fulfilled by the spirit). It changed from being written on stone to being written on fleshly hearts and minds by the Spirit of God.



The Lord Jesus Christ changed everything. That is why it says He will be a rock of offense and a stone of stumbling to the House of Israel.

Isn't it sad that you use those scriptures that show the destruction of those who are disobedient and continue in their own work and understanding of the law? I would think you would be in awe and frightened by what they say.

There is only one way to be obedient. There is only one way to be Righteous.

Galatians 2:21 [FONT=&quot]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.[/FONT]

As a christian it is ok for you to go to church on saturday instead of sunday. Or go to church on saturday and sunday. Or go to church on sunday instead of saturday.

What is not ok for christians is to look back to the Ministration of Death and Condemnation and try to obey it the way the disobedient do. By their own work and understanding.

Galatians 5:1-4
[FONT=&quot]1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


If it is ok for Christians to work at the 10 commandments the way that Judaism does then why is mere circumcision such a bad thing?

Because, AS EVERYONE KNOWS, its a package deal. Its circumcised AND follow the law of Moses written on stone. You can replace circumcision in those verses with 'folllow the ways of Judaism' and the meaning will not change.

Because it is the Lord Jesus Christ that is a Rock of offense and Stone of stumbling to Israel. Those who work at the law. (That's 10 commandments for those who try to separate the law into categories)

I don't know whether to be really sad for judaizers and legalists or irritated at what they try to turn Christians into.

I guess its a little of both.[/FONT]
 
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Sabbatarians cannot seem to grasp that, mix the old and new covenants and insist on turning the Sabbath day into an idol. :rolleyes:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenantnot of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

"No one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins." (Luke 5:37-38).
It is very important to understand the difference between the Old and the New Covenants. What is the Old Covenant and the New Covenant to you? How are both the old and new covenants different from each other? This should be interesting. Look forward to your reply :)
 
Jun 5, 2017
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This is all pretty good except for your little spin on the end.Its subtle. And its why we can't trust scripture interpretation from SDA's and judaizers.If it is ok for Christians to work at the 10 commandments the way that Judaism does then why is mere circumcision such a bad thing?Because, AS EVERYONE KNOWS, its a package deal. Its circumcised AND follow the law of Moses written on stone. You can replace circumcision in those verses with 'folllow the ways of Judaism' and the meaning will not change. Because it is the Lord Jesus Christ that is a Rock of offense and Stone of stumbling to Israel. Those who work at the law. (That's 10 commandments for those who try to separate the law into categories) I don't know whether to be really sad for judaizers and legalists or irritated at what they try to turn Christians into. I guess its a little of both.
Grandpa you are a funny one indeed. :)

Thanks for sharing the lovely scriptures they are all wonderful but I must ask you again my friend what is your point again? None of us are telling you that we are saved by the Works of the Law. If none of us are telling you that you are saved by the works of the Law then you have nothing to argue about have you?

You always post the same things despite everyone always telling you that we believe that we are ONLY saved by GRACE through FAITH and NOT of OURSELVES it is a GIFT OF GOD and not of WORKS Lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8)

It's never been about following the law its always been about following Christ by faith through love alone. Faith that works by love is what fulfills God's Law in those that walk in His Spirit (Romans 13:8-10).

Obedience is only the fruit of faith and a sign that someone is genuinely following God's Word (Matthew 7:17-27). If you seek obedience without faith you will never attain it because this is the gift of God written on the heart (Ephesians 2:8; Galatians 2:16; Hebrews 8:10-12).

But if you believe God's Word, your faith will be counted for righteousness in God's eyes (Romans 1:17; Philippians 3:9). If your faith does not have the fruit of obedience (God's work in you) than you are still in your sins and have not seen him or known him and your faith is dead (Philippians 2:13; Hebrews 10:26-27; 1 John 2:2-4; 1 John 3:3-9).

What we are talking about is SIN and how SIN will keep all who practice it OUT of God's Kingdom. If you profess to have saving FAITH but your faith does NOT have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to God's Word then your faith is DEAD and you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE all as he first LOVED us. LOVE is the fulfilling of the LAW in those who walk by FAITH in God's Spirit. (James 2:18; 20; 26; Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 3:3-10; James 2:8-12; Matthew 7:13-20)

There are only two classes of people spoken about in God's Word. These are those that follow God by Faith through LOVE and those that do not. Those that do NOT BELIEVE have rejected His Word. Those that have NOT Heard the WORD are ignorant and God winks at. Those that have heard the Word however and have rejected God's Word are UNBELIEVERS and unless they repent and confess their SINS they WILL NOT Enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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if I could make a suggestion- no one answer lovegod's questions until he answers the one posed to him by phil36. not trying to tell others what to do, just a suggestion.