GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

posthuman · Dec 15, 2017

two things here:

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
where does it say "THE SACRED 10 ARE FOREVER" ?

is there a verse somewhere not coming to my mind, like this one:

And it shall be a statute forever for them. The one who sprinkles the water for impurity shall wash his clothes, and the one who touches the water for impurity shall be unclean until evening.
(Numbers 19:21)

which isn't talking about "THE SACRED 10" -- it's talking about those things you say are temporary shadows, not *exactly* "THE LAW" but 'handwriting for remission of sin' -- but it specifically says it is FOREVER (("for them"))

is there somewhere similarly in scripture that says this about "THE SACRED 10" ?

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] thing,

where is it written in scripture that "THE SACRED 10" are "the standard" of all covenants and all judgement and all righteousness and all sin?

Jesus, when asked, pointed to Deuteronomy 6 and to Leviticus 19, saying that the two things in "The Law" which are the greatest commands, upon which all the Law hangs, are love for God and for others, neither of which are part of "THE SACRED 10" -- why is "THE 10" the "standard" and not what Jesus Christ says is the standard?
Paul, in Romans, also says that whoever loves fulfills all the Law. so Paul says it is the standard, not "THE 10"
James says that if we observed "the Law of our King" that we would be fulfilling the righteous requirements of the Law -- and he also points to Leviticus 19, not to "THE 10" as what he is referring to - love your neighbor.
so, two more witnesses.

who says "THE SACRED 10" are "THE STANDARD FOREVER" ?
God, or man?

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

even your name, "love God forever" -- that's not part of Exodus 20:1-17.
so why did you chose this?

♥

posthuman · Dec 15, 2017

Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.
(2 Corinthians 3:7-12)

what are we reading about here, some ministry coming with glory, associated with Moses & Israel, which was "engraved in letters on stone" ?

says here it was transitory, and brought condemnation, and is surpassed by something new & better and of the Spirit.

what exactly is it "engraved on tablets of stone" that we're reading about?

posthuman · Dec 15, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

i do not agree that congregating on saturdays, by traveling, kindling fire ((in a car and in heating a building)) and handling money to give a pseudo "tithe" while at some building constitutes "observing the sabbath" in any legitimate way.

going to church on sunday is not "sabbath observance" any more than doing exactly the same things on a different day is.

what does scripture say?
whoever has ceased from his own works has entered His rest.
that's "sabbaton" -- doing what amounts to a bunch of your own works on saturdays isn't.

this, in part, is where i was agreeing with Jackson -- i believe it's what he was pointing out, too, that what SDA et al call "observing the sabbath" is not at all doing so according to the Law in scripture, which, hey, if you're saying it's the Law according to scripture, why not actually listen to what scripture says about it? if you're picking up sticks on the sabbath, or you're not stoning to death anyone in the congregation you find doing so, how can you boast that you're keeping the sabbath according to the Law? because that's what the Law says. just as if you're travelling, kindling fire, handling money, lifting a burden: all of which things everyone who goes to SDA churches and pats themselves on the back for being good little sabbath observers, do, weekly. it's a bit hypocritical IMO.

posthuman · Dec 15, 2017

my conversation boiled down:

it is entirely unjustifiable to break The Law into separate parts. there is no "ceremonial" and "moral" and "priestly" laws; there is One Law, and the commandments in Exodus 20 are part of it.
even if you break them up, contrary to every mention of the Law in scripture, and you say the part "engraved on tablets of stone" is the Law but the rest isn't, scripture specifically calls out what is "engraved on tablets of stone" as a "ministry of death" that brings condemnation and specifically declares it to be a covenant that Christ has absolved for all who will believe and enter in to the covenant of His blood and body. you don't by faith enter into Christ, you're still judged by that Law - you do enter Christ, you are not; you have died to it.

the Law is holy and good.
it is a covenant with Israel, and Christ has made us mediators of a new covenant.

the end of the Law, the goal of the Law, the "destination" ((as the word in Romans 10:4 literally means)) is Christ: the Law brings knowledge of sin, making it all the more sinful, and Christ is the medicine that is able to completely remove, by crucifixion with Him, the sickness the Law makes you inescapably aware of, but which cannot in any wise cure. the Law teaches us that we need the mercy of God, and Jesus Christ is the very mercy of God in human form.

by entering into His death, we have died, and no one who has died is accountable any longer to the Law ((Romans 6-8))

posthuman · Dec 15, 2017

with thankfulness and joy in our hearts, we can sing it

[video=youtube;0T3ywrrscDg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T3ywrrscDg&list=PL08kEch9J5dVau9j74b5XsMd r2s7EeXZz[/video]

LoveGodForever · Dec 15, 2017

posthuman said:

Hello posthuman, I suggested for you to read the OP (posts 1-2 at the beginning of this thread) not the whole thread not the whole thread

. It covers a lot of the things we are talking about now with the Old and New Covenant, what the Shadows were and what was done away in Christ and what was not done away with everything referenced with the scriptures and would be a good starting point and background to any discussion here....

posthuman said:

No did you read post # 1956 (linked)? Maybe you should read it again there is a lot of scripture in there and the purposes of God's LAW (10 commandments) and the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN are clearly outlined there with the scriptures.
God's LAW is the knowledge of good and EVIL (SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS). The Mosaic laws for remission of SIN were the prescription for the FORGIVENESS of SIN under the Old Covenant which are the SHADOWS pointing to Jesus.

posthuman said:

That is what the 10 commandments are they are the LAW of SIN and DEATH because they give a knowledge of what SIN is (Romans 3:20) and the wages or penalty of SIN is DEATH (Romans 6:23).

Let's look at the scriptures you reference 2nd Cor 3 shall we..................

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 is referring to the Old and New Covenants. The context for reference is 2 Corinthians 3:3 talking about the “Believer” (in God’s Word) “For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the epistle (Who? The “Believer” is a living message of Christ) of Christ ministered by us, not written with ink (who? The believer) but with the Spirit of the living God. Not in tables of stone but the fleshly tables of the heart (see Hebrews 8:10-12 New Covenant promise).

Let’s look at the rest of the chapter?

2 Corinthians 3
v6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament (Covenant); not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life.
v7, But if the ministration of death, written and graven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away.
v8, How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
v9, For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
v10, For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
v11, For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
v12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
v13, And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
v14, But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
v15, But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16, Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

What is the ministration of death graven in stone? It is God’s Law (10 commandments; Exodus 20:1-17; 31:18; 32:16). Why were they called the ministration of death? Because they give the knowledge of sin and righteousness (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7).

They made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19) but showed what sin was if the God’s Law was broken the penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23).

It was to teach us that we are all sinners in need of a Savior and that all the world may become guilty before God (Romans 3:10; 19; Isaiah 64:6).

It leads us to Christ that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:24; Romans 3:28). The glory of the one passes to the glory of the other. They both work together to bring the sinner to salvation.

This is the difference between the true Gospel and the counterfeit. The counterfeit Gospel is one that tries to separate God’s Law from the cross but without God’s Law no one has the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God ask s us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Only the believers and followers of God's Word are his people. Those that practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

LoveGodForever · Dec 15, 2017

posthuman said:

Let's look at the scriptures you reference 2nd Cor 3 shall we..................

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 is referring to the Old and New Covenants. The context for reference is 2 Corinthians 3:3 talking about the “Believer” (in God’s Word) “For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the epistle (Who? The “Believer” is a living message of Christ) of Christ ministered by us, not written with ink (who? The believer) but with the Spirit of the living God. Not in tables of stone but the fleshly tables of the heart (see Hebrews 8:10-12 New Covenant promise).

Let’s look at the rest of the chapter?

2 Corinthians 3
v6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament (Covenant); not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life.
v7, But if the ministration of death, written and graven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away.
v8, How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
v9, For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
v10, For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
v11, For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
v12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
v13, And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
v14, But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
v15, But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16, Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

What is the ministration of death graven in stone? It is God’s Law (10 commandments; Exodus 20:1-17; 31:18; 32:16). Why were they called the ministration of death? Because they give the knowledge of sin and righteousness (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7).

They made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19) but showed what sin was if the God’s Law was broken the penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23).

It was to teach us that we are all sinners in need of a Savior and that all the world may become guilty before God (Romans 3:10; 19; Isaiah 64:6).

It leads us to Christ that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:24; Romans 3:28). The glory of the one passes to the glory of the other. They both work together to bring the sinner to salvation.

This is the difference between the true Gospel and the counterfeit. The counterfeit Gospel is one that tries to separate God’s Law from the cross but without God’s Law no one has the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God ask s us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Only the believers and followers of God's Word are his people. Those that practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

LoveGodForever · Dec 15, 2017

posthuman said:

Hi posthuman well to be honest I do not agree with anything you have posted here and here is why according to God's Word................

Sabbath observance has nothing to do with any of the above and by what you are suggesting above is in fact ignoring the new testament teachings of Jesus in regards to God's 4th commandment.

The Jews had placed so many restrictions and on the Sabbath that it had become a burden to the people (context is Matt 12:2; see also Matt 12:10; Mark 2:24; 3:2-4 Luke 6:2; 7-9; 13:10-16 etc.) Then in Matt 12:10-12 in the same chapter Jesus goes on to say it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath! Jesus came to teach us how to keep the Sabbath and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Mark 3:4; Luke 6:9) and is why Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27). This is why God’s Word says If anyone is knowingly and wilfully breaking any of the 10 commandments, including the 7th Day Sabbath you are deceiving yourself and not obeying or following God (James 2:8-12).

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament……….

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath day (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4).

This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

LoveGodForever · Dec 15, 2017

posthuman said:

Yes I agree that this has been your conversation but you have not provided any scriptures for what you believe. I hope you can see now with all the scriptures now provided above that your position in God's Word is not in a safe place.

posthuman said:

"Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people that BELIEVE and FOLLOW HIM.

Well that is not true at all.... please read v28 from the same chapter.......

Galatians 3
28, THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK , there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

links with.....

Romans 9
6, FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN : but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMIS E <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED

and again.....

Romans 2
28, FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: 29, BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

If you are not a part of God's Israel circumcised in the heart by Faith you are not a part of the NEW Covenant...

Hebrews 8:10-12,
For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the house of ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

If you are a BELIEVER and FOLLOWER of GOD'S WORD then you are a part of GOD'S Israel if you are still in your SINS and do not BELIEVE God's WORD then it is true you are NOT a part of God's ISRAEL.

The rest of your post was only repetition already answered in previous posts so left it out of this post as it has already been addressed above.....

LoveGodForever · Dec 16, 2017

posthuman said:

So in Summary of our conversation you should NOW see if your being honest with yourself and reading the posts and the scriptures provided, that God's LAW (10 commandments) is the standard of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS, the OLD and NEW Covenants and the Judgement to come and are Forever as they are the standard of God's character of LOVE.

God's Law made written and spoken by God himself has a different role to that of the Mosaic laws written by Moses in a book. The Mosaic laws of Moses for the remission of SIN were shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus and temporary.

The role of God's Law is to point out SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS and to lead a sinner to the Savior. Without God's LAW you do not have salvation because there is NO knowledge of SIN. It is SIN that will keep all who are practicing it OUT of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Those that are living in SIN do not know him who LOVES all (1 John 2:3-4) and it why Jesus says "If you LOVE me KEEP my COMMANDMENTS"

As there has been much scripture provided to you as a help; you may want to consider reviewing these posts again so I have linked them all together in this single post that links all the scriptures that are against your interpretation of God's Word.

Post # 1956; Post # 1959; Post # 1966; Post # 1967; Post # 1968; Post # 1969

Now to help our further I have a number of questions for you to consider. If your interpretation of God's Word is correct please show me one scripture that SAYS................

1, God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and and we are now commanded to Keep Sunday as a Holy day?

2, Where does it say in God's Word the Jesus is a Sabbath?

3, The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4, Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5, Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6, That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7, That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8, Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9, That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10, From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11, Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12, That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13, That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14, Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15, Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16, Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17, That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18, That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19, That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20, That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21, Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22, Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23, Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24, Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25, Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26, Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27, Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

If you cannot answer any of the above, you may want to consider what it is you believe. Only the BELIEVERS and FOLLOWERS of GOD's Word are His people. Those who continue practicing KNOWN SIN will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Who should we obey God or man?

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God ask s us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Only the believers and followers of God's Word are his people. Those that practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Hope this has been helpful.........

LoveGodForever · Dec 16, 2017

God’s Word says: LOVE is the fulfilling of God’s Law (10 commandments)

No one can keep the letter of the Law because all God’s Law does is to point out Sin (1John 3:4). It is our mirror that shows us our condition and that all our own righteousness is as filthy rags (James 1:22-25; Isa 64:6). It is our teacher to bring us to Jesus so that we can have salvation by faith in God’s Word alone because there is nothing that we can do in our own strength to save ourselves. It is a gift of God lest any man shall boast (Rom 6:23). It is God’s Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24). He has not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance (Matt 9:13).

LOVE is the fulfilling of God’s Law In us who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit;

Love is in-deed the fulfilling of God’s Law. This is the promise of the New Covenant. Spoken about by God in the Old Testament and repeated in the New.

Eze 36:26-27,
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh and I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jer 31:33-34,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

So now under the new covenant when God changes our heart; we will love God and our neighbour.

if we love God we will not steal
if we love God we will not murder
if we love God we will not commit adultery
if we love God we will not lie
if we love God we will honour our parents
if we love God we will not covet
if we love God we will have no other gods except our God who loves us
if we love God we will not make unto any idols
if we love God we will not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
if we love God we will Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy as he asked us to!

God’s Law has always been central to both the Old and the New Covenant. It is only by the operation of God as we have Faith in His Word that God changes our hearts so that we can love him and love our neighbour that we can walk in his ways. This is why Jesus says its only if you love me we can keep hid commandments (John 14:15)

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Love is the fulfilling of the God’s Law. I love Jesus and want to follow Him how about you

If we are knowingly and wilfully breaking any of God’s Laws however we are sinning against God. Sin is the transgression of God’s Law and God’s Word tells us that if we continue in sin the wages of sin is death (1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23). If we choose to follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God then we are unbelievers in God’s Word.

Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man breaking God’s Law which has no basis in God’s Word. The question remains who do we really follow God or Man? This is the great test that will come to each of us. God’s sheep hear his voice… He that has ears to hear let him hear (Matt 11:15) If we say that we know Jesus and are breaking His commandments God’s Word says we are lying and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:3-4)

Hope this is helpful,

In Christ always

TMS · Dec 16, 2017

But let’s look closer at that text in Colossians 2:14-16 to get the real picture. After describing the “blotting out” and “nailing” of the ordinances, Paul wrote, “Let no man THEREFORE judge you in meat, or in drink.” The word “therefore” means “based on what has just been said, we must come to this conclusion.” In other words, he was saying, “Based upon the fact that the ordinances have been blotted out, THEREFORE let no one judge you in meat or drink.”

Now we begin to see clearly which law was under discussion. Is there anything in the Ten Commandments about meat and drink?

But let us read the rest of the text before us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ” (Colossians 2:16, 17).

Question: Could these sabbath days be talking about the Seventh-day Sabbath of the ten-commandment law? No. Because they are clearly defined as “shadows of things to come.” Please keep in mind that the weekly Sabbath was instituted by God before sin came into the world. THERE COULD NEVER BE TYPES OR SHADOWS BEFORE SIN EXISTED! All the shadows were introduced because of sin and pointed forward to the deliverance from sin through Christ. For example, all the lambs slain represented Jesus, the true LAMB, who would die for the sins of the world. If sin had not entered the world, there would have been no need of a Saviour, and therefore, no lambs or shadows pointing to a Saviour.

So these “sabbath days which are a shadow” could not possibly be referring to the Seventh-day Sabbath. But what other sabbaths could they be talking about? Were there “sabbaths” other than the weekly Sabbaths? Yes, there were yearly sabbaths which had absolutely nothing to do with the Seventh-day Sabbath of the decalogue. And they were definitely a part of the “ordinance” system which ended at the cross.

LoveGodForever · Dec 16, 2017

TMS said:

But let’s look closer at that text in Colossians 2:14-16 to get the real picture. After describing the “blotting out” and “nailing” of the ordinances, Paul wrote, “Let no man THEREFORE judge you in meat, or in drink.” The word “therefore” means “based on what has just been said, we must come to this conclusion.” In other words, he was saying, “Based upon the fact that the ordinances have been blotted out, THEREFORE let no one judge you in meat or drink.”

Now we begin to see clearly which law was under discussion. Is there anything in the Ten Commandments about meat and drink?

But let us read the rest of the text before us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ” (Colossians 2:16, 17).

Question: Could these sabbath days be talking about the Seventh-day Sabbath of the ten-commandment law? No. Because they are clearly defined as “shadows of things to come.” Please keep in mind that the weekly Sabbath was instituted by God before sin came into the world. THERE COULD NEVER BE TYPES OR SHADOWS BEFORE SIN EXISTED! All the shadows were introduced because of sin and pointed forward to the deliverance from sin through Christ. For example, all the lambs slain represented Jesus, the true LAMB, who would die for the sins of the world. If sin had not entered the world, there would have been no need of a Saviour, and therefore, no lambs or shadows pointing to a Saviour.

So these “sabbath days which are a shadow” could not possibly be referring to the Seventh-day Sabbath. But what other sabbaths could they be talking about? Were there “sabbaths” other than the weekly Sabbaths? Yes, there were yearly sabbaths which had absolutely nothing to do with the Seventh-day Sabbath of the decalogue. And they were definitely a part of the “ordinance” system which ended at the cross.

Yep spot on this is what the thread is about. Sharing God's Word.

posthuman · Dec 16, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law:
“The person who does these things will live by them.”
(Romans 10:5)

You are to practice My ordinances and you are to keep My statutes by following them;
I am Yahweh your God.
Keep My statutes and ordinances; a person will live if he does them.
(Leviticus 18:4-5)

what Moses calls "statues and ordinances" Paul calls "the Law"

I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
(Romans 7:7)

Paul also calls Exodus 20:1-17 "the Law"

how should i make a distinction, if he does not?

Paul even calls Genesis "the Law" ((Galatians 4:21-31))
Jesus calls the Psalms "your Law" ((John 10:34))

how should i make a distinction, when even Christ does not?

But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
(James 2:9-10)

You must not act unjustly when deciding a case. Do not be partial to the poor or give preference to the rich; judge your neighbor fairly.
(Leviticus 19:15)

James says breaking one part of "the Law" is tantamount to breaking all of it - and the example he gives is breaking what you call an "ordinance"

how should i make a distinction if James does not?

Paul makes no distinction.
James makes no distinction.
Jesus Christ makes no distinction.

but i should?

posthuman · Dec 16, 2017

"not one jot or tittle"

actually means all the jots and tittles except the ones in Exodus 20:1-17?

Jesus in Matthew 5:18 says "the Law" not 'ordinances' -- if He makes a distinction, why doesn't He do the same thing in John 10:34, when He quotes the Psalms and calls it equivalently "Law" ?

LoveGodForever · Dec 16, 2017

Hello posthuman,

Just a few things. I noticed you did not bother to answer any of the questions I asked you in post # 1970 (linked). If your interpretation of God's Word is correct you should be able to answer those questions right?

I also did not post the quote you referenced in your post you quoted. That is something you have written into your post and is not mine.

Now let's look at what you have posted and compare it to God's Word. Some comments below in BLUE

posthuman said:

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”(Romans 10:5)

You are to practice My ordinances and you are to keep My statutes by following them; I am Yahweh yo ur God. Keep My statutes and ordinances; a person will live if he does them.
(Leviticus 18:4-5)

What you have failed to pick up again is exactly what we have been discussing earlier and that is that the Old Covenant is made up of God's LAW (10 commandments) the Statutes and the Ordinances which are the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN.

what Moses calls "statues and ordinances" Paul calls "the Law"I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
(Romans 7:7)

NO he does not. Romans 7:7 is talking specifically in reference to God's LAW as the context is BREAKING GOD'S LAW(10 commandments) IS SIN. This is highlighted within verse CONTEXT where with reference to the 10 commandment; Thou Shalt Not Covet (Exodus 20:17)

This is further supported with other scriptures on the same topic for example...........

James 2
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Romans 7
7, What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 3
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

1 John 3:4
4, Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Yep seems Paul, James and John are all in agreement when they are talking about SIN is breaking God's LAW (10 commandments)

Where your post falls a part is you are trying to compare Hebrew OT scripture language with Greek NT language.
The Word "ORDINANCE" for example in the GREEK language used in Col and Eph 2 is G1378 δόγμα; dogma; dog'-mah
From the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws): - decree, ordinance.

Paul also calls Exodus 20:1-17 "the Law" how should i make a distinction, if he does not?

Paul does make a distinction between God's Law and the Mosaic laws for remission of sin. Maybe you have not seen the scriptures. Let's have a look.......

1. God’s Law (10 commandments)

1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11
7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Rom 7:12)
10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20; 7:7)
11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Rom 6:23)
12. If we break God's Law we dishonour God (Rom 2:23)
13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Rom 3:19)
14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Rom 3:31)
15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Rom 6:1-7)
16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Rom 6:15)
17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Rom 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Gal 3:24)
19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Rom 6:22)
20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Rom 2:4-13)
21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Rom 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Heb 8:9-10)
22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Heb 10:26-27)

2. Mosaic laws for remission of sin

1. Laws of ordinances with our sins were nailed to the cross (Col 2:14)
2. Were shadows of things to come pointing to Jesus (Col 2:16-17)
3. Ceremonial festivals pointing to Jesus fulfilled (Col 2:16-17; 1Cor 5:6-8)
4. True circumcision was that of the heart and not of the flesh (Rom 2:25-29 etc.)
5 The Levitical laws of Moses pointing to our true Great High Priest Jesus (Rom Chapter 7)
6. Ceremonial laws of Moses and the Levitical Priest hood done away for the New Covenant (Rom 8:1-13)
7. Ceremonial laws of Moses in the Old covenant and the Sanctuary service was a copy of the one in Heaven. These were all shadows pointing to Jesus being our great high priest and only true sacrifice (Hebrews 9:1-28; Col 2:16-17)

8. The ceremonial laws of Moses in the Old Covenant were only shadows pointing to Jesus and could make nothing perfect (Hebrews 10:1)

9. The ceremonial laws of Moses written in a book were prophetic in nature pointing to the coming of Jesus, his life, death, resurrection and work as our great high priest and sacrifice (Hebrews 10:5-10)

10. Jesus has replaced the ceremonial laws of Moses in the New Covenant (Heb 13:24; Heb 8:4-12)

11. The ceremonial laws of Moses are fulfilled and abolished in Jesus (Eph 2:11-15)

Paul even calls Genesis "the Law" ((Galatians 4:21-31))
v24 Paul uses an allegory of the two Covenants (Hagar and Sarah)

how should i make a distinction, when even Christ does not?
By reading and BELIEVING and FOLLOWING the Word of God.

But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
(James 2:9-10)

This scripture is talking about God's LAW please read it in CONTEXT please read the rest of the scripture you left out in v11.....

James 2
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James says breaking one part of "the Law" is tantamount to breaking all of it - and the example he gives is breaking what you call an "ordinance"

No he does not as shown through the scriptures above.

how should i make a distinction if James does not? Paul makes no distinction. James makes no distinction. Jesus Christ makes no distinction. but i should?

Well this is simply not true at all as has been proven with the scriptures posted above. The CONTEXT for the scriptures provided you in this post even showing Paul, James and John are using and quoting the 10 commandments for the within scripture CONTEXT making a CLEAR distinction between God's LAW (10 commandments) and the Mosaic laws for remission of SIN. Hope this will be a help to you as you seek Him who LOVES all....

As mentioned earlier........ You seem to be missing out on a lot of scripture my friend that disagrees with your interpretation of God's Word

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we break any one of the ten we stand guilty before God of SIN (James 2:8-11) and need to repent and seek his forgiveness (Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). Those that continue a life in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is NO SCRIPTURE that says that God's 4th commandment has been ABOLISHED and we are now COMMAN DED to keep Sunday as a HOLY day..................

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

Jackson123 · Dec 16, 2017

The Word is the law and the covenant and Jesus

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Hizikyah · Dec 16, 2017

Is the Messiah tellling the truth or is He mistaken here:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

LoveGodForever · Dec 16, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Yes good post Hiz,

Seems like many believe Heaven and Earth have passed away

Hizikyah · Dec 16, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Honestly it seems many have made a "god" after their own desires rather than accept what the Messiah has to say. Yah willing many will let the Messiah be their guide.

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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