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To address the original OP, I personally don't believe man has 'Free will', that is a will that is free from his nature or who he is - that is the distinction that most people don't realize when they say they have free will..Man will not choose to do anything that is against who he is.
Isaiah hear shows how God's sovereignty works alongside man's yet take a close look.
The Assyrian King thinks that he himself by his will and might is defeating God's people, and to an extent this is very true he is willing to do it. Yet we also see that God is doing it, he is actually using the Assyrians as punishment..... and yet God punishes the Assyrians for doing it!
Isaiah 10;
[h=3]God’s Judgment on Assyria[/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]“Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of my anger,
in whose hand is the club of my wrath!
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I send him against a godless nation,
I dispatch him against a people who anger me,
to seize loot and snatch plunder,
and to trample them down like mud in the streets.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But this is not what he intends,
this is not what he has in mind;
his purpose is to destroy,
to put an end to many nations.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]‘Are not my commanders all kings?’ he says.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] ‘Has not Kalno fared like Carchemish?
Is not Hamath like Arpad,
and Samaria like Damascus?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As my hand seized the kingdoms of the idols,
kingdoms whose images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria—
[SUP]11 [/SUP]shall I not deal with Jerusalem and her images
as I dealt with Samaria and her idols?’”
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, “I will punish the king of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For he says:
“‘By the strength of my hand I have done this,
and by my wisdom, because I have understanding.
I removed the boundaries of nations,
I plundered their treasures;
like a mighty one I subdued[SUP][a][/SUP] their kings.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]As one reaches into a nest,
so my hand reached for the wealth of the nations;
as people gather abandoned eggs,
so I gathered all the countries;
not one flapped a wing,
or opened its mouth to chirp.’”
Isaiah hear shows how God's sovereignty works alongside man's yet take a close look.
The Assyrian King thinks that he himself by his will and might is defeating God's people, and to an extent this is very true he is willing to do it. Yet we also see that God is doing it, he is actually using the Assyrians as punishment..... and yet God punishes the Assyrians for doing it!
Isaiah 10;
[h=3]God’s Judgment on Assyria[/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]“Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of my anger,
in whose hand is the club of my wrath!
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I send him against a godless nation,
I dispatch him against a people who anger me,
to seize loot and snatch plunder,
and to trample them down like mud in the streets.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But this is not what he intends,
this is not what he has in mind;
his purpose is to destroy,
to put an end to many nations.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]‘Are not my commanders all kings?’ he says.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] ‘Has not Kalno fared like Carchemish?
Is not Hamath like Arpad,
and Samaria like Damascus?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As my hand seized the kingdoms of the idols,
kingdoms whose images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria—
[SUP]11 [/SUP]shall I not deal with Jerusalem and her images
as I dealt with Samaria and her idols?’”
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, “I will punish the king of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For he says:
“‘By the strength of my hand I have done this,
and by my wisdom, because I have understanding.
I removed the boundaries of nations,
I plundered their treasures;
like a mighty one I subdued[SUP][a][/SUP] their kings.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]As one reaches into a nest,
so my hand reached for the wealth of the nations;
as people gather abandoned eggs,
so I gathered all the countries;
not one flapped a wing,
or opened its mouth to chirp.’”
B
To believe that man has no 'free will or volition' to make decisions makes God incomplete in making man in his image and likeness. To say that man has no 'free will' is to say that God does not either. It also says that the son of man did not freely give himself as the lamb of God to take away the sins of the world. It also says that we can not freely receive what has freely been given to us by God through his Son. How do we account for the last five verses of scriptures that has been recorded for our sake? Do we see man's 'free volition' being addressed, you DECIDE!
Rev 22:17-21 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Rev 22:17-21 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Hi brad that is not true.
Of course it also depends on what you mean by 'free will', you mention volition which is cognitive process, and you say if we have not free will then neither does God.. do you think we are the same as God? I certainly believe man can make decisions and does so every minute of the day..but its not free from who that man is!!
Anyhow, my question to you is what makes our will/volition free? and it what sense is it free?.. what is it free from?
Of course it also depends on what you mean by 'free will', you mention volition which is cognitive process, and you say if we have not free will then neither does God.. do you think we are the same as God? I certainly believe man can make decisions and does so every minute of the day..but its not free from who that man is!!
Anyhow, my question to you is what makes our will/volition free? and it what sense is it free?.. what is it free from?
B
Free will or volition allows man to exercise himself in any manner that he may choose from the time of his conception. He has the liberty to exercise restraint or to live in rebellion without restraint. He can choose to make unwise and foolish decisions that put him in further bondage or he can choose to restraint himself from these things and live without the hardship that accompany those foolish decisions. This is the 'free volition' in man that he was created in the image of God to have and to exercise himself. Jesus illustrated to man, as a man, how man could live submitted to the will of the Father. He became a man in the likeness of sinful flesh being tempted in all points yet without sin. He learned obedience by the things that he suffered in his flesh. Every act of faith is an act of free volition and we know that the just shall live by faith starting at the time we believed upon the Son when we were saved by grace through faith. We used our free volition to believe upon the Son and we freely received all that was procured for us through the cross. Don't try to confuse the issue of man's free will because we are sent out to preach the gospel making an appeal to their free will that whosoever believeth in him will not perish but have everlasting life. Our free will does not save us but the mercy we receive through the grace of God and the Holy Spirit does. Our free will cooperated with the conviction of the Spirit and we believed unto righteousness. We still walk by that same rule of faith as a just person in the light of what has been given unto us through the promises of God.
Genesis 6:5
The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Man can only choose evil continuously, human will is corrupted
14 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,[SUP][a][/SUP]
who seek after God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one.
Human faith is not the same as the Gift of Faith given to man by God, what is awesome about that is God is a rewarder of the faith that He gives man.
human faith leads to things like - if you just had enough faith you would be healed - I have faith to heal someone, but they didn't get healed, i guess I didn't have enough faith(or could it be that God never told you to heal anyone)
It's all of grace - and there is no such thing as free will in the Bible, human will but I don't think the term "free" will should be used - kind of misleading
The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Man can only choose evil continuously, human will is corrupted
14 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,[SUP][a][/SUP]
who seek after God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one.
Human faith is not the same as the Gift of Faith given to man by God, what is awesome about that is God is a rewarder of the faith that He gives man.
human faith leads to things like - if you just had enough faith you would be healed - I have faith to heal someone, but they didn't get healed, i guess I didn't have enough faith(or could it be that God never told you to heal anyone)
It's all of grace - and there is no such thing as free will in the Bible, human will but I don't think the term "free" will should be used - kind of misleading
E
1. God does not MAKE them happen. Otherwise he would be quite the prankster. why bother prophesying when you are going to make things happen no matter what? it loses its flavor.
2. They happen Because God, in his omniscient power. Knew they would happen. Thats what makes him God. He can look into our future and know exactly what will happen. And it happens..
2. They happen Because God, in his omniscient power. Knew they would happen. Thats what makes him God. He can look into our future and know exactly what will happen. And it happens..
N
We absolutely have free will and can use that to choose to follow God, believe Jesus died for our sins or to think otherwise. God's will works with and around our choices. His Intentional Will is what He wants to happen, what He intends for us. But we have free will so we do what we do and then He works His Circumstantial Will. He works out what He wants out of what we do (all things work together for good for those who love God and want His will Romans 8:28). But in the end, God's Ultimate Will is what will ultimately come from everything we've done or haven't done. In the end it is God's design that will come to pass. That will never change or fail to happen. We can either help it along by obeying and following what He asks of us or we can hinder it and make it harder. On God, on ourselves, on others. The choice, is ours, the outcome, is God's.
B
We have one example that we can trust and that would be Jesus who was born of a woman and made in the likeness of man, the God man with flesh and blood and a body, soul and spirit. The volition in man is part of the soul along with the mind, emotions, conscience and self conscious capacity that became apparent in the garden when Adam transgressed and realized he was naked. Can anyone think of another example?
I believe God in what God did through his Son and am by belief, (that I chose, free will to believe God or not) Free to live in the Spirit of God, born again by God through the resurrection. Am a slave to God's righteousness now, by my choice to be in God through Christ. This is and was my choice to be one with God as Christ is one with God the Father in total dependence on God, the creator of all.
Today is the day to make your free will choice, today is the day of salvation to either believe God or not. The only thing God never died for is unbelief in God, and is why the disciples had to wait for the Spirit of God from on high to come to preach through them God's word to them, so that they might belief. And how many were saved? Without the Spirit of God living through you, me or anyone else, no new life is received by others. Much self-righteousness though as Saul had, and says to have no confidence in the flesh whatsoever. Thanks
Today is the day to make your free will choice, today is the day of salvation to either believe God or not. The only thing God never died for is unbelief in God, and is why the disciples had to wait for the Spirit of God from on high to come to preach through them God's word to them, so that they might belief. And how many were saved? Without the Spirit of God living through you, me or anyone else, no new life is received by others. Much self-righteousness though as Saul had, and says to have no confidence in the flesh whatsoever. Thanks
By God through those that Believe, God by ones free choice uses the believer's to show his unfathomable love through Son as has (past tense) been shown via the cross, includes the resurrection, not just the death. All God none of man other that a vessel for the living God as Christ was this 100% here on earth in the flesh, did nothing or said nothing without Father's lead to do or say. And he has sent the very same Holy Ghost to us if we believe God's unfathomable Love shown to us via Christ who went to the death for us, to be able to offer us new life in the Spirit of God by the resurrection.
Do we this? Then we are born anew in God, and can worship God in truth by the born again Spirit God gives us freely to those that believe, Take on his yoke it is easy, take on his burden it is light, Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wondering you maybe?
Do we this? Then we are born anew in God, and can worship God in truth by the born again Spirit God gives us freely to those that believe, Take on his yoke it is easy, take on his burden it is light, Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wondering you maybe?
2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
2 Corinthians 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
\Made aware of flesh and controlled by flesh, unless one changed their mind and believed in God as Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph. Isaac, and may more that first believed God and then did as God led, as so well shown by Christ to the whole world. where the world has divided history by the cross. Thanks Bradc