Golden Rule living or Holy Spirit led living?

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Oct 24, 2018
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#21
Thank you so much. I really thought I had missed out on some understanding. Yes whe we commit ourselves to Jesus Christ we are expected to conduct ourselves as though we are truly grateful......you are so right, nothing is automatic.....Jesus says so if we hear Him, and obviously you do. God bless you always.

This discussion format can be confusing, but not as bad as texting via cellphone discussions.

God bless you and your family.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#22
Thank you so much. I really thought I had missed out on some understanding. Yes whe we commit ourselves to Jesus Christ we are expected to conduct ourselves as though we are truly grateful......you are so right, nothing is automatic.....Jesus says so if we hear Him, and obviously you do. God bless you always.

This discussion format can be confusing, but not as bad as texting via cellphone discussions.

God bless you and your family.
I have grieved about such many times and done a lot of intercessory praying in response to my witnessing or reading about such. What do Ephesians 2 and the Epistle of James emphasize about Christian Sanctification? But like you indicated most Christian church attendees are just living secular humanism and many of them go to secular anti-Christianity psychologists or psychoanalysts. Did you know the Bobkins wrote a book titled Psychoheresy which documents the Founding Fathers of Psychology all despised Christians and Christianity. Like Dr. Freud did so because he witnessed his Dad being beaten up by "Christians"? But most pastors and church elders cannot do Biblical counseling like Dr. Jay E. Adams and Dr. Wayne Cook have taught in their books. And most of them are not carefully teaching Bible and providing for many Bible discussion group meetings (we learn and retain more in that method of education). I have free ways to do the latter.

I did this new thread because of what has already been mentioned. Thank you for your contribution. God bless you.

***A lot of good sorted and rated information is found in the following:

for Counseling Ministry-- https://app.box.com/s/46cfbcbb638ed48816b5
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#23
You implied it: "The Holy Spirit keeps all commandments for the Believer".
We enter into sanctification by placing and maintaining our Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus (Romans 8:2). The Holy Spirit only works exclusively between Jesus Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won. This is the only way the Believer receives Grace. Anything and everything outside of Christ and Him Crucified is the law of sin and death. This is why Paul said, "We preach Christ Crucified." Why would he say that? Because that is the only answer and solution for sin.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#24
We enter into sanctification by placing and maintaining our Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus (Romans 8:2). The Holy Spirit only works exclusively between Jesus Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won. This is the only way the Believer receives Grace. Anything and everything outside of Christ and Him Crucified is the law of sin and death.

I disagree. I don't agree with the Swaggarts that one needs to keep returning back to the Cross. Doing 1 John 1:9 doesn't say that. And what do Hebrews 5-6 & 10 say? What does Ephesians 2:8-10 say? And John 3 doesn't indicate what you are saying. What Scripture are you using? Please evaluate the following Bible study tools.

1-- Justification towards Glorification (2) -- ETRSF (11 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/h0ktubdx09ixbmi8pc08f35ziea31dde


***Two Kinds of Christians-- Part 1 in ETRSF (9 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/rgcw85mzd1mx09l2fh6o7wiol4x3r14d


1a) Thesis about Basic Christianity in ETRSF (51 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/bx9mqm38ml4vgdn16bchs0d5453q3x02
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#25
If a Christians faith is not maintain exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The BLOOD of Jesus, the works of the flesh will manifest.

Paul tells us this in the 5th Chapter of Galatians. The entire Book of Galatians, but especially the 5th Chapter, is a warning from Paul to the Church at Galatia, which is also meant for us. The warning is that if they place their faith in anything except “Christ and Him Crucified,” that “Christ shall profit you nothing” (Gal. 5:2).

The Apostle goes on to say that if the Believer doesn’t adhere to the Way of the Spirit, which is the Way of the Cross, then works of the flesh will manifest themselves. He said:

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:19-21).

Now let me say it again, because it is so very important:
If the Believer doesn’t understand the Cross of Christ, as it regards Sanctification, then, in some way, one or more of these “works of the flesh” are going to manifest themselves in his life. As stated, such is inevitable! The first four, “Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, and lasciviousness,” are obvious and easily understood. But the modern Christian quickly dismisses “idolatry, witchcraft, and heresies,” thinking they do not really apply today.


Everything that mans does dies; everything Jesus does lives forever and is blessed. Psalm 1:3

JSM
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#26
Only by being sensitive to the Holy Spirit urgings....
This is often said and it makes me wonder, why is it that people always need to be "sensitive" to the Spirit.

My point is: In the Bible when God spoke to someone, He was loud and clear, yet today when God speaks to someone He doesn't seem to get the message across clearly and its like "Yeah i dont know, could be God, could be me, could be the devil, gotta pray about it. still small voice you know".
Where is that in the scriptures?
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#27
I disagree. I don't agree with the Swaggarts that one needs to keep returning back to the Cross. Doing 1 John 1:9 doesn't say that. And what do Hebrews 5-6 & 10 say? What does Ephesians 2:8-10 say? And John 3 doesn't indicate what you are saying. What Scripture are you using? Please evaluate the following Bible study tools.

1-- Justification towards Glorification (2) -- ETRSF (11 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/h0ktubdx09ixbmi8pc08f35ziea31dde


***Two Kinds of Christians-- Part 1 in ETRSF (9 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/rgcw85mzd1mx09l2fh6o7wiol4x3r14d


1a) Thesis about Basic Christianity in ETRSF (51 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/bx9mqm38ml4vgdn16bchs0d5453q3x02
Ephesians 2:8-10 - anytime the word "Gift" is used, God is speaking of His Son and His Substitutionary Work on the Cross, which makes all of this possible.

JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#28
God has chosen to operate His work from the basis of faith. "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:2) is God's prescribed order of victory for the Believer over sin, the world, the flesh, and the Devil. This means that the Believer must place and maintain proper Faith the size of a mustard seed exclusively in Christ and the Cross of Calvary, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, where the victory was won so that His life would be lived through you. This gives the Holy Spirit the legal means to help and do what is needed to be done in the Believers life because the Believer is glorifying Christ, God's beloved Son in whom He is pleased. You are now operating in the spirit. No Believer can fix the flesh with the flesh. All fruits that are added to the leaves of the Believer most be done by the Holy Spirit or you enter the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21).

The Holy Spirit doesn't require much of us, but He does require one thing, and without reservation.
Our Faith must be exclusively be in Christ and the Cross; understanding that this is God's Prescribed Order of Victory (Rom. 8:2).

The Holy Spirit works strictly within the parameters of the "Finished Work" i.e., "The Cross of Christ" i.e., "The Blood of Jesus;" which demands that our Faith be placed and maintained exclusively in the Cross of Christ. The reason is simple, that's were the price was paid, and the victory was forever won (Romans 6:1-14; 1 Cor. 2:2; Gal. 5; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15).

Victory over sin: Romans 8:2
Victory over the world: Galatians 6:14; 1 John 5:4
Victory over the flesh: Galatians 5:24
Victory over the Devil:Hebrews 2:14; Colossians 2:15

The Apostle Paul makes it very clear in Romans 8:10 that the physical body, mind / intellect, and the heart (which is evil - Jeremiah 17:9) has been rendered helpless because of the original sin; consequently, the Believer trying to overcome by willpower presents a fruitless task. Only the Holy Spirit can mortify the deeds of the flesh and make us what we ought to be (Romans 8:13). This means we cannot do it ourselves. Once again, He performs all that He does within the confines of the Finished Work of Christ (Romans 8:2).

If a Christian will and their efforts to live for God is in anything except Christ and the Cross, i.e., Finished Work, The Blood of Jesus (Romans 8:2), Satan can override your will and force you to do things you don't want to do and trying not to do (Ephesians 6:12). Jesus said deny yourself and pick up your cross and follow me (Luke 9:23).

Remember our bodies are dead and useless to God. The heart is prone to wander away from God's love and eat from "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." The reason why the body is dead is because of the effects of the fall has made us totally incapable of yielding spiritual obedience on a regular basis (Jeremiah 13:23). So there must be a source outside of myself that helps me to enter into sanctification which is the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13).

Note: The Believer must repent not just for the bad they are doing, but also for the good they are doing. Why? Because the Believer can depend on the good to get them through (Jer. 6:13-15). Good things will always follow right living. However, that is not God's way. His way is Faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work (Rev. 3:17-22).

How does a Believer maintain Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross? By just believing in Jesus (who He is - John 1:1-14) and what He accomplished at Calvary Cross where the victory was one. Romans 4:5 - Galatians 2:19-21 NKJV - 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 NKJV - Colossians 2:11-15 NKJV

JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#29
All works must be produced and birth by the Holy Spirit or it is dead works. The "Golden Bell and the Pomegranate" must bounce against each other or it is tingling cymbal and sounding brass. The Golden Bell = The Gift of the Spirit, and the Pomegranate = The Fruit of the Spirit (Exodus 28:34). We need both to be in operation.

We need "The Golden Bells (The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the spirit) and the Pomegranates (The Fruit of the Holy Spirit that gives us victory over sin) Exodus 28:34 NIV. If you have two bells and no fruit bouncing against each other you have 1 Corinthians 13:1, clanging cymbals.

One without the other produces an inconsistency and it is a problem. To say you don't need both is doubt and unbelief which is never acceptable to God. The Bell presents the power and the Pomegranate presents relationship. You must have the development of both. These are two different works of the Holy Spirit; the fruits and the gifts. The Golden Bells and the Pomegranate is a TYPE.

JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#30
Faith placed exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, will always produce proper works by the Holy Spirit. This is the only Faith God will recognize. Anything and everything that is not of the Spirit is "dead faith." Lifeless Faith is profitless (rotten fruit). James 2:14-18

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.

JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#31
The works of any Believer is to fight the good fight of Faith. God will not accept anything else from any man or woman but faith (and praise) in His Son Jesus. The scripture says, "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASE, AND LISTEN TO HIM." God never said that about any Believer. Psalm 39:5 says, "...every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah." In other words we are all wretched and vile, daily. Anything and everything that is not Faith in Christ and Him Crucified is judge as iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23).
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#32
Very - Very Important: If any Believer try's to do what the scripture says do in their own will-power, strength, and ability, the sin nature that was made dormant (not eliminated) when you where born-again, will be activated (the works of the flesh will manifest - Gal. 5:19-21). The Law says do - Grace says done. This is why I stated only the Holy Spirit can do what the scriptures ask of us through Faith in Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won.

Many Believers believe they can do what the scriptures ask of us in our own strength, ability, and will-power. This is reverting back to the “LAW.”

“18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed (revert back to the Law), I make myself a transgressor. (To revert to any type of Law is a departure from God’s Prescribed Order of Victory [the Cross], and is sin).” Gal. 2:18
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#33
Ephesians 2:8-10 - anytime the word "Gift" is used, God is speaking of His Son and His Substitutionary Work on the Cross, which makes all of this possible.

JSM

But what for? It is mentioned in verse 10 and actually in the whole Epistle. Maybe you will enjoy learning from ETRSFed Bible study tools and thought-provoking questions. I learned a lot. The Holy Spirit is a wonderful teacher.

NT-10b-- Ephesians Study in ETRSF (6 pgs.) -- https://app.box.com/s/zubjvmm6r33b3h36y3xfo67bhj67jojh

NT-17-- Hebrews-- ETRSF (10 pgs.) -- https://app.box.com/s/daj6d9nwwwj8ix7o2wrinu90puwdydfp

NT-18-- James ETRSF (8 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/u6bnjsfjd1hp2g1l6gr4mcirk144wdmv

NT-19-- 1 & 2 Peter with questions-- in ETRSF (11 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/760ik7ic8rcqwzqt1sbxwefze01gylhm

NT-20-- The Epistles of John in ETRSF with questions (8 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/kbqbs4s0q3oxyanpjr58vhtubykcley8
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#34
Very - Very Important: If any Believer try's to do what the scripture says do in their own will-power, strength, and ability, the sin nature that was made dormant (not eliminated) when you where born-again, will be activated (the works of the flesh will manifest - Gal. 5:19-21). The Law says do - Grace says done. This is why I stated only the Holy Spirit can do what the scriptures ask of us through Faith in Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won.

Many Believers believe they can do what the scriptures ask of us in our own strength, ability, and will-power. This is reverting back to the “LAW.”

“18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed (revert back to the Law), I make myself a transgressor. (To revert to any type of Law is a departure from God’s Prescribed Order of Victory [the Cross], and is sin).” Gal. 2:18

***Get off your throne. I have not posted anything that goes against what the Bible says. The ministry of the Holy Spirit is in John 14-16, even though most charismatics and Pentecostals claim only Acts and 1 Corinthians 12-14. And many religions emphasize the Sermon of the Mount because they love the Golden Rule. But in my links, you will see that I consider a lot more. But living by the Spirit can be very easy. As Romans 8 and Galatians 5:1-6:10 inicate that such is a matter of commitment to living for God and others and dying to self. Simple, but selfishness and arrogance, and legalism/denominalism stop such from happening and increasing religion that God hates.

What God hates in our churches:

R -- ritual

E -- earnestness for superficiality

L -- legalistic

I -- ignorant of a lot of what is God-pleasing

G -- going on with un-Biblical tradition

I -- “I” problem especially in pride and selfishness

O -- obnoxious

N -- nasty, hypocritical, and condemnatory like the Pharisees of old

BTW, I attended in 2 different years a church that promoted Jimmy Swaggart's doctrine and also had a Dream Center for homeless men. The church did not grow and was failing in all aspects of their ministries. They even had donated merchandise in front of the church for bi-annually raffles to encourage bring visitors to the church. The head pastor was not a Bible teacher at all. Also, what happened in Mr. Swaggart's personal life. I have kept praying for him and even had offered to volunteer to help his ministry in responding to E-mails Biblically. But was is really sound doctrine. It is not denominalism or Roman Catholism.
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#35
God has chosen to operate His work from the basis of faith. "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:2) is God's prescribed order of victory for the Believer over sin, the world, the flesh, and the Devil. This means that the Believer must place and maintain proper Faith the size of a mustard seed exclusively in Christ and the Cross of Calvary, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, where the victory was won so that His life would be lived through you. This gives the Holy Spirit the legal means to help and do what is needed to be done in the Believers life because the Believer is glorifying Christ, God's beloved Son in whom He is pleased. You are now operating in the spirit. No Believer can fix the flesh with the flesh. All fruits that are added to the leaves of the Believer most be done by the Holy Spirit or you enter the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21).

The Holy Spirit doesn't require much of us, but He does require one thing, and without reservation.
Our Faith must be exclusively be in Christ and the Cross; understanding that this is God's Prescribed Order of Victory (Rom. 8:2).

The Holy Spirit works strictly within the parameters of the "Finished Work" i.e., "The Cross of Christ" i.e., "The Blood of Jesus;" which demands that our Faith be placed and maintained exclusively in the Cross of Christ. The reason is simple, that's were the price was paid, and the victory was forever won (Romans 6:1-14; 1 Cor. 2:2; Gal. 5; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15).

Victory over sin: Romans 8:2
Victory over the world: Galatians 6:14; 1 John 5:4
Victory over the flesh: Galatians 5:24
Victory over the Devil:Hebrews 2:14; Colossians 2:15

The Apostle Paul makes it very clear in Romans 8:10 that the physical body, mind / intellect, and the heart (which is evil - Jeremiah 17:9) has been rendered helpless because of the original sin; consequently, the Believer trying to overcome by willpower presents a fruitless task. Only the Holy Spirit can mortify the deeds of the flesh and make us what we ought to be (Romans 8:13). This means we cannot do it ourselves. Once again, He performs all that He does within the confines of the Finished Work of Christ (Romans 8:2).

If a Christian will and their efforts to live for God is in anything except Christ and the Cross, i.e., Finished Work, The Blood of Jesus (Romans 8:2), Satan can override your will and force you to do things you don't want to do and trying not to do (Ephesians 6:12). Jesus said deny yourself and pick up your cross and follow me (Luke 9:23).

Remember our bodies are dead and useless to God. The heart is prone to wander away from God's love and eat from "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." The reason why the body is dead is because of the effects of the fall has made us totally incapable of yielding spiritual obedience on a regular basis (Jeremiah 13:23). So there must be a source outside of myself that helps me to enter into sanctification which is the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:13).

Note: The Believer must repent not just for the bad they are doing, but also for the good they are doing. Why? Because the Believer can depend on the good to get them through (Jer. 6:13-15). Good things will always follow right living. However, that is not God's way. His way is Faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work (Rev. 3:17-22).

How does a Believer maintain Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross? By just believing in Jesus (who He is - John 1:1-14) and what He accomplished at Calvary Cross where the victory was one. Romans 4:5 - Galatians 2:19-21 NKJV - 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 NKJV - Colossians 2:11-15 NKJV

JSM

1-- Justification towards Glorification (2) -- ETRSF (11 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/h0ktubdx09ixbmi8pc08f35ziea31dde


***Two Kinds of Christians-- Part 1 in ETRSF (9 pgs.)
https://app.box.com/s/rgcw85mzd1mx09l2fh6o7wiol4x3r14d


1a) Thesis about Basic Christianity in ETRSF (51 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/bx9mqm38ml4vgdn16bchs0d5453q3x02
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#36
But what for? It is mentioned in verse 10 and actually in the whole Epistle. Maybe you will enjoy learning from ETRSFed Bible study tools and thought-provoking questions. I learned a lot. The Holy Spirit is a wonderful teacher.

NT-10b-- Ephesians Study in ETRSF (6 pgs.) -- https://app.box.com/s/zubjvmm6r33b3h36y3xfo67bhj67jojh

NT-17-- Hebrews-- ETRSF (10 pgs.) -- https://app.box.com/s/daj6d9nwwwj8ix7o2wrinu90puwdydfp

NT-18-- James ETRSF (8 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/u6bnjsfjd1hp2g1l6gr4mcirk144wdmv

NT-19-- 1 & 2 Peter with questions-- in ETRSF (11 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/760ik7ic8rcqwzqt1sbxwefze01gylhm

NT-20-- The Epistles of John in ETRSF with questions (8 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/kbqbs4s0q3oxyanpjr58vhtubykcley8
“8 For by Grace (the Goodness of God) are you Saved through Faith (Faith in Christ, with the Cross ever as its Object); and that not of yourselves (none of this is of us, but all is of Him): it is the Gift of God (anytime the word “Gift” is used, God is speaking of His Son and His Substitutionary Work on the Cross, which makes all of this possible):

9 Not of works (man cannot merit Salvation, irrespective what he does), lest any man should boast (boast in his own ability and strength; we are allowed to boast only in the Cross [Gal. 6:14]).

10 For we are His workmanship (if we are God’s workmanship, our Salvation cannot be of ourselves), created in Christ Jesus unto good works (speaks of the results of Salvation, and never the cause), which God has before ordained that we should walk in them. (The “good works” the Apostle speaks of has to do with Faith in Christ and the Cross, which enables the Believer to live a Holy life.)” Eph. 2

JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#37
Pastor Curtis Hutchinson said, "They told me what to do, but they never told me how to do the what to do! How true this is.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
11,245
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#38
AMOS 3:8.
The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord GOD hath spoken, who can but prophesy?

Luke 5:26
And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.

7:16.
And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us;
and, That God hath visited His people..

11:7.
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark
to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

12:28
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably
with reverence and godly fear:

1PETER 3:15.
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,117
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#39
we know what the golden rule is: do onto others as you would have others do onto you

if I were the ground, do I want to be stepped on?

assuming no, let's fix the problem

strap helium balloons around yourself to the point where you only exert around the force of one pound (1 lbs) on the ground

if I were those balloons, do I want to be treated in such a demeaning way? probably not

or how about this, "hey Trump, I want to be president for a day"
if the golden rule is applied, then what will Trump do with the position of being a president? see where this is going?

however, if I were to ask myself, if I'm Trump, would I want to "step down" from that position? clearly no

now we are wondering, is this all about "let bygones be bygones"? or, "change nothing, let everything be the way it is"

what if the world ask Christians to be doormat?

divorced from Godly wisdom, the golden rule will ultimately fail to achieve what agape love is meant to achieve, either that or worse ...
 
Oct 24, 2018
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#40