Graffed into Israel?

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GenJesus

GenJesus

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#1
Dec 19, 2015
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#1
This is part of my 1st Sabbath/ "Sunday" essay; off the Jim Staley/ Chris Rosenbrough debate.
Never bevore have I heard of being "Graffed into Israel"? Does this only show biblical illiteracy on me?

“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Who was the New covenant given to?”[/FONT] Jim“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The whole world. We're grafted into Israel” Chris[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]At 1[/FONT][SUP]st[/SUP] I was thinking; what is Chris talking about? Is the connection supposed to be; Israel, “Israelite” Romans 11:1; is the olive tree; Romans 11:17; 24? I've never before been in a bible study, that talked about this. I'm not making light of the issue; I've just never before heard of being graffed into Israel.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I'm now finding out; because of Jim's “And He rested”; the closest there seems to be to “grafted”, is [/FONT]graffed; Romans 11:17,19,23,24.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Sometimes I think that more than 90% of the bible, doesn't apply to me personally. How am I supposed to apply such a doctrine as; what Chris just mentioned; as I've never heard of it, [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]My “Apocalypse” Letter Jesse C. Wycoff[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The modern day Sabbath? Evidence for Sunday?[/FONT] Jim and Chris[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]till now? An entirely important question is; is “Sabbath” mentioned in Romans? Acts 18:4 seems to be the last time “Sabbath” is mentioned; before Colossians. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Which means there is no Sabbath mentioned; or even commanded in [/FONT]Romans. Even with this doctrine of being graffed into Israel.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This can become a Sabbath reach for the Adventist philosophy as being an “Adopted” child of Israel; for the sake of the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment; not paying attention to SDA as an Ellen church.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I for 1; see no connection to Chris's claiming to being “grafted” into Israel; and his trying to prove “Sunday” as biblical. [/FONT]There was no need to bring up; being graffed into Israel, at least at my strongest opinion; except so I could find out about Romans 11:1,17,24; which has nothing to do; again at my strongest opinion; with the need to keep Sabbath or not.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Does the modern day Sabbath apply to Christians; or not?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Jim; “So you are Israel?”[/FONT]
“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Yes of course; I am grafted into Israel. I am a wild olive branch; grafted into spiritual Israel.”[/FONT]
 
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thepsalmist

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#2
#2
As I understand it from scripture ...
Israel are the natural olive tree branches ...
we are the wild olive tree branches ...
the tree itself would be God's promise of salvation or more precisely : Jesus Christ

Romans 11

The jewish branches that were broken off were those who rejected the messiah (salvation)
which made place for the gentiles to be grafted into the tree.
 
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Bookends

Bookends

Senior Member
#3
Aug 28, 2012
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#3
thepsalmist said:
As I understand it from scripture ...
Israel are the natural olive tree branches ...
we are the wild olive tree branches ...
the tree itself would be God's promise of salvation or more precisely : Jesus Christ

Romans 11

The jewish branches that were broken off were those who rejected the messiah (salvation)
which made place for the gentiles to be grafted into the tree.
Click to expand...
Which would make all believers in Christ a member of the "true" Israel.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#4
#4
Bookends said:
Which would make all believers in Christ a member of the "true" Israel.
Click to expand...
I have a rose bush out back that was grafted. For years I got single-petaled white roses. It's in a container (which makes it more susceptible to harsh temperatures.) Three winters ago, we had a particularly harsh winter, and half the bush died. The other half went back to producing the single-petaled white roses.

Two winters ago, we had a repeat, and the plant died to its roots. Or, so I thought. Now it has one branch of single-petaled white roses and a branch of multi-petaled magenta roses. (Or it did. We had a a mild winter, but we had a short bout of colder-than-usual temperatures, so I have yet to see if the bush lived.) That's the true bush, pre grafting.

The true bush is Jesus. Israel was grafted in, but many of those branches died long ago. The true bush is huge, so there's plenty of space to graft in other branches. The branches aren't the bush because they're grafted in. They're nourished by the true bush.

The magenta branches and the white branches do not contribute to the strength of the original bush. We're parasites living off it. I had no problems cutting off useless branches. I no longer mistaken original stock with grafts.

I wouldn't accept bad theology just because someone copy/pastes from writers and calls it an essay though.
 
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thepsalmist

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#5
#5
Bookends said:
Which would make all believers in Christ a member of the "true" Israel.
Click to expand...
NO. You interpret my words wrongly ... It would make all believers a member of CHRIST.
 
Bookends

Bookends

Senior Member
#6
Aug 28, 2012
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Depleted said:
I have a rose bush out back that was grafted. For years I got single-petaled white roses. It's in a container (which makes it more susceptible to harsh temperatures.) Three winters ago, we had a particularly harsh winter, and half the bush died. The other half went back to producing the single-petaled white roses.

Two winters ago, we had a repeat, and the plant died to its roots. Or, so I thought. Now it has one branch of single-petaled white roses and a branch of multi-petaled magenta roses. (Or it did. We had a a mild winter, but we had a short bout of colder-than-usual temperatures, so I have yet to see if the bush lived.) That's the true bush, pre grafting.

The true bush is Jesus. Israel was grafted in, but many of those branches died long ago. The true bush is huge, so there's plenty of space to graft in other branches. The branches aren't the bush because they're grafted in. They're nourished by the true bush.

The magenta branches and the white branches do not contribute to the strength of the original bush. We're parasites living off it. I had no problems cutting off useless branches. I no longer mistaken original stock with grafts.

I wouldn't accept bad theology just because someone copy/pastes from writers and calls it an essay though.
Click to expand...
All those in the OT who looked forward to Christ and was faithful to God are of the cultivated olive tree as well. That said, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Paul makes it pretty clear in describing who belongs to the common stock of Israel, you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with the bible, not any mans writings or someones' cut/paste.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#8
Sep 4, 2012
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#8
thepsalmist said:
NO. You interpret my words wrongly ... It would make all believers a member of CHRIST.
Click to expand...
Christ is the true Israel

When Israel [was] a son, then I loved him, and I called my son out of Egypt. Hosea 11:1

And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Matthew 2:15​
 
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thepsalmist

Guest
#9
#9
Bookends said:
Christ is the the root and trunk of the olive tree.
Click to expand...
Yes - that's what I said ... and Israel & the gentiles who believe in Him ... are the branches :)

Some branches are native and some are wild.
 
GenJesus

GenJesus

Member
#10
Dec 19, 2015
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#10
I wouldn't accept bad theology just because someone copy/pastes from writers and calls it an essay though.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what that part is supposed to mean
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#13
Nov 24, 2012
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#13
GenJesus said:
I don't know how to quote a single line, from another persons statement.
Click to expand...
When you are typing in the response box, you will see a 'quote' icon on the top right. You can click on it and then paste the quote between the two 'QUOTES".

they look like this but will have a / before the 2nd quote.

Thus...

I don't know how to quote a single line, from another persons statement.
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Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#14
Jan 13, 2016
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#14
National Israel = fig tree
Spiritual Israel = olive tree

We are said to be grafted into the olive tree, the spiritual Israel and are a part of the spiritual promises afforded to them. We are not grafted into the fig tree and the physical promises God extended to the nation of Israel.
 
D

DP

Banned
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Sep 27, 2015
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I see some are still missing a lot with this idea. Not

If you learn your OT history, you'll know the Jews only represent a small portion of the total seed of Israel. Don't you guys know they were made up out of only 3 tribes, and some small remnants of the others. The ten northern tribes of Israel never were known as Jews, and were scattered among the Gentiles.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#16
Mar 22, 2015
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#16
DP said:
I see some are still missing a lot with this idea. Not

If you learn your OT history, you'll know the Jews only represent a small portion of the total seed of Israel. Don't you guys know they were made up out of only 3 tribes, and some small remnants of the others. The ten northern tribes of Israel never were known as Jews, and were scattered among the Gentiles.
Click to expand...
they were a very large remnant of Israel entering Judah in the times of Rehoboam, Asa, Hezekiah and Josiah,
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#17
Mar 22, 2015
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#17
John146 said:
National Israel = fig tree
Spiritual Israel = olive tree

We are said to be grafted into the olive tree, the spiritual Israel and are a part of the spiritual promises afforded to them. We are not grafted into the fig tree and the physical promises God extended to the nation of Israel.
Click to expand...
who says the fig tree meant natural Israel? doesn't seem like that to me
 
D

DP

Banned
#18
Sep 27, 2015
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valiant said:
they were a very large remnant of Israel entering Judah in the times of Rehoboam, Asa, Hezekiah and Josiah,
Click to expand...
The majority of the tribes of Israel dwelt in the northern lands, and became the northern "kingdom of Israel" per God's Word, and were NOT... the Jews. Their first king was Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim.

The southern kingdom under Solomon's son Rehoboam (house of David) made up the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and some small remnants of the other tribes, and this group was called the "kingdom of Judah". These are the JEWS.
It was mainly the JEWS, Apostle Paul's brethren, since he was a Jew born of the tribe of Benjamin, when he was teaching about the blinded part of Israel in Rom.11 (Isaiah 29), having rejected Jesus Christ as Messiah so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles.

The majority of the seed of Israel were thus scattered AMONG Gentiles and were of the ten LOST tribes of Israel.

I'm a believer that God fulfilled what He said He would do with His promise of The Gospel to the seed of Israel, the majority simply are fed propaganda instead into thinking that only Jews are Israelites when that is not true per God's Word.
 
Bookends

Bookends

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#19
Aug 28, 2012
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#19
John146 said:
National Israel = fig tree
Spiritual Israel = olive tree

We are said to be grafted into the olive tree, the spiritual Israel and are a part of the spiritual promises afforded to them. We are not grafted into the fig tree and the physical promises God extended to the nation of Israel.
Click to expand...
So who where the Jews who were broken off, don't tell me they were broken off from Spiritual Israel because they were never part of it. Natural Israel is a type to the anti-type, the spiritual or true Israel.
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

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#20
Jan 24, 2011
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#20
I do wish people would quote the verses they are talking about. Instead, people go off on all sort of tangents, and no one looks at what the Word of God says. I had this as part of my daily Bible reading, so I was a bit concerned at all the different things being said here. Perhaps, just read,, and then talk about what the Bible says, for the rest of this thread?


"11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant towards the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity towards those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree." Romans 11:11-24
 
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