Grappling With Why God Allows Evil To Continue
- Thread starter Stunnedbygrace
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Is Satan asking God's "permission" to cause pain and suffering to people? Does God grant His "permission"? (permission - the right to do something, consent to do something, approval, and agreement to do something)
I believe that Satan is darkness, evil, the thief which comes to steal, kill, and destroy, the god of this world and that the world lies in the power/control of the evil one. What evil transpires is due to Satan and NOT God because God is light and in him is NO darkness AT ALL . . . I believe it (the world) is in Satan's control until the day he is thrown in the pit. I just want to say that because I say that Satan is in control of the world (actually I don't say it, God does) - doesn't mean that I think that he is greater than God - God can intervene in any matter and does through the prayers and faith of his saints.
But in a way, you have made things a little clearer to me.
But in a way, you have made things a little clearer to me.
E
And...tried to give reps to two more of you but couldn't also haha! I'll give likes and reps after PB and I get at least through her original post. Not being rude, okay? Well...except to EG. I'll always be rude to him because he's a butthead.
I think i would be offended if you stopped, it means you do not love me any more
E
Is Satan asking God's "permission" to cause pain and suffering to people? Does God grant His "permission"? (permission - the right to do something, consent to do something, approval, and agreement to do something)
I believe that Satan is darkness, evil, the thief which comes to steal, kill, and destroy, the god of this world and that the world lies in the power/control of the evil one. What evil transpires is due to Satan and NOT God because God is light and in him is NO darkness AT ALL . . . I believe it (the world) is in Satan's control until the day he is thrown in the pit. I just want to say that because I say that Satan is in control of the world (actually I don't say it, God does) - doesn't mean that I think that he is greater than God - God can intervene in any matter and does through the prayers and faith of his saints.
But in a way, you have made things a little clearer to me.
But in a way, you have made things a little clearer to me.
I agree, i will say i think satan is limited, alhough like you said he is not bound,
That is exactly what the book of Job reveals. Satan had to ask God's permission. Which means that God allows Satan and his evil angels as much latitude as He allows, but they are totally in His hands. Should God chose, He could cast them all into the Lake of Fire tomorrow. They are merely creatures.
We should always bear in mind that it was God's decision to create men and angels with free will. And one consequence of free will was disobedience, which is sin. Therefore God also made full provision for the sins of men in and through Christ, who was the Lamb of God slain from BEFORE the foundation of the world. God and Christ saw His finished work of redemption even before Adam was created.
Is Satan asking God's "permission" to cause pain and suffering to people? Does God grant His "permission"? (permission - the right to do something, consent to do something, approval, and agreement to do something)
I believe that Satan is darkness, evil, the thief which comes to steal, kill, and destroy, the god of this world and that the world lies in the power/control of the evil one. What evil transpires is due to Satan and NOT God because God is light and in him is NO darkness AT ALL . . . I believe it (the world) is in Satan's control until the day he is thrown in the pit. I just want to say that because I say that Satan is in control of the world (actually I don't say it, God does) - doesn't mean that I think that he is greater than God - God can intervene in any matter and does through the prayers and faith of his saints.
But in a way, you have made things a little clearer to me.
But in a way, you have made things a little clearer to me.
2 Corinthians 4:4 [SUP] [/SUP]In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
If God judges evil in this world, will He not have to judge us? If He were to stop all evil presently in this Earth, would we not have to cease to exist? We make a distinction between us and the evil in the world, yet we ourselves sin. I think people forget that Jesus Christ is the solution to evil in this world, and in due time, in the Lord's timing, will it all come to an end and a new beginning. I do not suggest double jeopardy, as Christ will not again go to the cross.
It continues because God is long-suffering, not willing that any should perish. Do not forget that we were once a part of the problem, but now, are we the children of light, the children of God. We are the righteous, in Christ Jesus.
It continues because God is long-suffering, not willing that any should perish. Do not forget that we were once a part of the problem, but now, are we the children of light, the children of God. We are the righteous, in Christ Jesus.
That is where some of the problems arise, for there are those who say they would refuse to worship a God if He could not get what He wants, for it makes Him weak... and those who say Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world, because if He had, so they say, everyone would be forgiven, as if salvation were not contingent upon repentance.
Sorry took so long. I was panfrying some tempeh and making a salad. No breakfast, starving, the schrapnel gonna' fly!
You say it depends on where any plans or plots that evil devises against us comes from to determine if we are in agreement.. It obviously comes from evil if I say: "any plans or plots evil devises against us." If evil devises, plans, plots or conceives them, they have originated from evil - not from God. Otherwise, I would have said: any plots or plans God devises against us...
As to whether God permitting evil to continue on earth is Him causing it to happen, I don't believe that. If I allow you/permit you to borrow my car and you cause a wreck because you're texting, was my permission the cause of the wreck. If I permit you to eat some of my tempeh and you choke to death, was I the cause of you choking to death?
God could choose to end this all whenever He wants. Evil has not caused Him to not be able to end it whenever He wants or else after the fall, He would not have been able to destroy all but a few men in the flood.
Put it this way, if you ask to borrow my car and you are of age, and my car is insured, and you wreck it because of texting, would your family win a court case if they tried to sue me, saying I was the cause of your death and your death was my fault?
Or, if we are friends and you come over my house for lunch and I cook tempeh and a salad and you choke to death on a piece of tempeh while I'm in the bathroom, would your family win a court case if they tried to sue me, saying I was the cause of your death because I shared my food with you?
The answer to both of those has to be no. Otherwise, no one would ever legally be allowed to borrow someone elses car and no one could ever open a restaurant, share their food, or even give someone a mint or a drink of water!
So to give permission/to let/allow does not then lead to causation of bad. It can be, in cases of negligence or lack of due diligence, but it is not a given at all and depends on many factors.
So when you ask if something is allowed or permitted, isn't that the same as causing it to happen - no. God could end this all (and will one day) but He has not yet. By your argument, by His permitting it to continue, He is causing cancer, murder, etc.
I'm not saying your argument can not be made tenable. But it is not tenable as it stands because you circle around and blame God when your intent is to do the opposite.
As to your last paragraph, I think you probably know my answer! If you really don't, let me know and I'll give it to you.
You say it depends on where any plans or plots that evil devises against us comes from to determine if we are in agreement.. It obviously comes from evil if I say: "any plans or plots evil devises against us." If evil devises, plans, plots or conceives them, they have originated from evil - not from God. Otherwise, I would have said: any plots or plans God devises against us...
As to whether God permitting evil to continue on earth is Him causing it to happen, I don't believe that. If I allow you/permit you to borrow my car and you cause a wreck because you're texting, was my permission the cause of the wreck. If I permit you to eat some of my tempeh and you choke to death, was I the cause of you choking to death?
God could choose to end this all whenever He wants. Evil has not caused Him to not be able to end it whenever He wants or else after the fall, He would not have been able to destroy all but a few men in the flood.
Put it this way, if you ask to borrow my car and you are of age, and my car is insured, and you wreck it because of texting, would your family win a court case if they tried to sue me, saying I was the cause of your death and your death was my fault?
Or, if we are friends and you come over my house for lunch and I cook tempeh and a salad and you choke to death on a piece of tempeh while I'm in the bathroom, would your family win a court case if they tried to sue me, saying I was the cause of your death because I shared my food with you?
The answer to both of those has to be no. Otherwise, no one would ever legally be allowed to borrow someone elses car and no one could ever open a restaurant, share their food, or even give someone a mint or a drink of water!
So to give permission/to let/allow does not then lead to causation of bad. It can be, in cases of negligence or lack of due diligence, but it is not a given at all and depends on many factors.
So when you ask if something is allowed or permitted, isn't that the same as causing it to happen - no. God could end this all (and will one day) but He has not yet. By your argument, by His permitting it to continue, He is causing cancer, murder, etc.
I'm not saying your argument can not be made tenable. But it is not tenable as it stands because you circle around and blame God when your intent is to do the opposite.
As to your last paragraph, I think you probably know my answer! If you really don't, let me know and I'll give it to you.
Permission means the following: permit, authority, approval, agreement, consent . . . So when "permission" is given - authority is given, approval is given, consent is given, agreement is given . . . if I give authority for someone to do something evil, then I am authorizing it; if I give consent for someone to do evil, then I am consenting to the evil; if I give my approval for evil to happen, I am approving the evil that happens; all giving my okay for the evil to be done. And last but not least - agreement - if I agree with the evil that happens then I am in harmony or accordance (the absence of incompatibility between to things) with the evil . . . Why are we told not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers? What fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? What communion has light with darkness? And what concord has Christ with Belial? So, Satan and God sit down together and have this business agreement - a course of action - Satan ask permission - God gives his OK . . . . and God is not the cause of what happens.
Sin is the ultimate cause of all suffering and sickness. Satan actually was the FIRST created being to sin - He was a murderer from the beginning - he is a liar and the father of it . . . besides the pride he had that caused his fall in the first place.
Please note that I am not saying all sickness and suffering is the result of sin in our lives . . . but the result of SIN is the ROOT cause . . .
Please note that I am not saying all sickness and suffering is the result of sin in our lives . . . but the result of SIN is the ROOT cause . . .
I am understanding more with the point being brought about by people's freedom of choice. Before whenever this subject has been brought up, it has been with some negating man's free will choice.
Permission means the following: permit, authority, approval, agreement, consent . . . So when "permission" is given - authority is given, approval is given, consent is given, agreement is given . . . if I give authority for someone to do something evil, then I am authorizing it; if I give consent for someone to do evil, then I am consenting to the evil; if I give my approval for evil to happen, I am approving the evil that happens; all giving my okay for the evil to be done. And last but not least - agreement - if I agree with the evil that happens then I am in harmony or accordance (the absence of incompatibility between to things) with the evil . . . Why are we told not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers? What fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? What communion has light with darkness? And what concord has Christ with Belial? So, Satan and God sit down together and have this business agreement - a course of action - Satan ask permission - God gives his OK . . . . and God is not the cause of what happens.
Permission means the following: permit, authority, approval, agreement, consent . . . So when "permission" is given - authority is given, approval is given, consent is given, agreement is given . . . if I give authority for someone to do something evil, then I am authorizing it; if I give consent for someone to do evil, then I am consenting to the evil; if I give my approval for evil to happen, I am approving the evil that happens; all giving my okay for the evil to be done. And last but not least - agreement - if I agree with the evil that happens then I am in harmony or accordance (the absence of incompatibility between to things) with the evil . . . Why are we told not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers? What fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? What communion has light with darkness? And what concord has Christ with Belial? So, Satan and God sit down together and have this business agreement - a course of action - Satan ask permission - God gives his OK . . . . and God is not the cause of what happens.
Look at this instead. God could choose to end it today and no longer allow evil to touch us in this world. Yet He is currently permitting it to continue. He is currently allowing it to continue. Of course it isn't because He can't bring it to an end right this minute. Does this make God the one perpetrating evil and sin?
The whole world goes on. He could bring an end to it but hasn't yet. You said once that if God allows evil to be done to anyone and COULD stop it but doesnt, that makes Him responsible or at least partly culpable for evil. But He could stop it at any minute, and will end it one day. So by that statement, He is being put on trial.
But I know you don't intend that. Your entire thought has been that He ISN'T to blame for evil.
Not all are receptive to God, this is not a failure on the part of God but man. He has made the Way, will men believe and become reconciled? Will they repent? The liberty God has granted to man is not a sign of weakness, but of sincerity. We love Him because He first loved us. It is reciprocity at work. Yet, there are those who do not believe, refuse to believe, and are at odds with God. This is the will of God, not that they should be condemned, but that they should not be slaves.
People act as if salvation is an ultimatum of choice, instead of circumstance. It isn't like "choose me or die", but rather "you're dying, choose me." Jesus came not to condemn the world but save it, because the world is already condemned (they are outside of Christ). God has made salvation available, the means by which His desire gets fulfilled. Again though, He isn't a tyrant. Repentance is necessary.
People act as if salvation is an ultimatum of choice, instead of circumstance. It isn't like "choose me or die", but rather "you're dying, choose me." Jesus came not to condemn the world but save it, because the world is already condemned (they are outside of Christ). God has made salvation available, the means by which His desire gets fulfilled. Again though, He isn't a tyrant. Repentance is necessary.
