Hades / The Grave

RevelationMan · Sep 23, 2019

it is natural to think that when some dies or leaves this earth that we all experience the same thing such as separation of our spirit from our body or falling asleep but this is not a necessity. I have no problem believing that some fall asleep in their grave waiting for the judgement and resurrection while others go on living in a new body. Some go up towards heaven keep on living while others (most) go down towards death and hades and live out there second lives in these realms. In other words not everybody experiences the same events and activities when they die and not everybody goes to the same place.

Webers.Home · Sep 25, 2019

.
FAQ: So there's an afterlife. What am I supposed to do about it?

A: Initiate a line of communication with heaven. This is done via mediator.

● 1Tim 2:5-6 . . For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men

Simply find a private moment to speak up and tell Jesus that you're aware there's an afterlife and that that you're concerned about coming out on the wrong side of it. That'll get the ball rolling.

Be assured that your concern, if it's honest, won't end up in the round file.

● John 6:37 . . All that the Father gives me shall come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out.
_

PlainWord · Sep 28, 2019

I didn't read all the posts on this thread but let me see if I can help. First, there are two realms, our physical visible realm and the spiritual, usually invisible realm. The physical realm is all that we can see, touch, taste, etc. on a normal every day basis. This realm includes all the planets, galaxies and universe. We are born into this realm, our spirit and soul coming from God, who normally dwells in the spiritual realm. Think of these two realms as parallel universes where the spiritual realm surrounds us here in our physical realm.

In the beginning, God created the physical realm using His endless energy. Matter can be converted from energy and energy can be converted into matter (the conservation of energy). Thus when God created our universe, He caused the so-called, "Big Bang" with His energy from the spiritual realm. This is why our universe seeming came into existence from nothing. Since most scientists are atheists and do not recognize another realm, they struggle with this question but Christians all should know.

Jesus (and His disciples, esp John) teaches the existence of 2 lives and 2 deaths. We each have a physical life and death that everyone understands. But we Christians also have a spiritual life that begins at salvation, at which time we enter the kingdom. Unbelievers have a spiritual death that comes at judgment. Those of us who are spiritually alive, never taste the spiritual death. So, what is spiritual life and death? Simply put, Spiritual life is being present with God where spiritual death is separation from God.

Prior to the Cross, everyone who died was considered, "asleep or sleeping" in Hades, the afterlife realm of the physically dead. Hades had two parts, Paradise (AKA Abraham's Bosom) and the bad part separated by a great, uncross-able divide. While Christ was in the grave or tomb those 3 days, He went to Hades to minister to those on the wrong side of the divide and everyone was given the opportunity to hear the lesson of salvation whereby they had a chance to accept, or reject, Jesus just as all living Jews did during and after His ministry.

After 3 days, Christ resurrected out of Hades and His body was revived but was not yet glorified because He was back in our physical realm. His glorification would come when He returned to the spiritual realm (Heaven). His body still bore the scars of His torment and from the Cross but His body was spiritual and indestructible like angels were when they came into our realm.

Christ would shortly ascend back into heaven where He was taken to God and glorified. He was given a crown and dominion over the earth. Shorty thereafter, war broke out in heaven, Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his demons. This event, although in the spiritual realm was so powerful that it was seen and recorded in history by several historians. Satan and his demons were cast out and sent to the earth just prior to the start of the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66 AD. should I keep going?

Melach · Sep 28, 2019

PlainWord said:

I didn't read all the posts on this thread but let me see if I can help. First, there are two realms, our physical visible realm and the spiritual, usually invisible realm. The physical realm is all that we can see, touch, taste, etc. on a normal every day basis. This realm includes all the planets, galaxies and universe. We are born into this realm, our spirit and soul coming from God, who normally dwells in the spiritual realm. Think of these two realms as parallel universes where the spiritual realm surrounds us here in our physical realm.

In the beginning, God created the physical realm using His endless energy. Matter can be converted from energy and energy can be converted into matter (the conservation of energy). Thus when God created our universe, He caused the so-called, "Big Bang" with His energy from the spiritual realm. This is why our universe seeming came into existence from nothing. Since most scientists are atheists and do not recognize another realm, they struggle with this question but Christians all should know.

Jesus (and His disciples, esp John) teaches the existence of 2 lives and 2 deaths. We each have a physical life and death that everyone understands. But we Christians also have a spiritual life that begins at salvation, at which time we enter the kingdom. Unbelievers have a spiritual death that comes at judgment. Those of us who are spiritually alive, never taste the spiritual death. So, what is spiritual life and death? Simply put, Spiritual life is being present with God where spiritual death is separation from God.

Prior to the Cross, everyone who died was considered, "asleep or sleeping" in Hades, the afterlife realm of the physically dead. Hades had two parts, Paradise (AKA Abraham's Bosom) and the bad part separated by a great, uncross-able divide. While Christ was in the grave or tomb those 3 days, He went to Hades to minister to those on the wrong side of the divide and everyone was given the opportunity to hear the lesson of salvation whereby they had a chance to accept, or reject, Jesus just as all living Jews did during and after His ministry.

After 3 days, Christ resurrected out of Hades and His body was revived but was not yet glorified because He was back in our physical realm. His glorification would come when He returned to the spiritual realm (Heaven). His body still bore the scars of His torment and from the Cross but His body was spiritual and indestructible like angels were when they came into our realm.

Christ would shortly ascend back into heaven where He was taken to God and glorified. He was given a crown and dominion over the earth. Shorty thereafter, war broke out in heaven, Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his demons. This event, although in the spiritual realm was so powerful that it was seen and recorded in history by several historians. Satan and his demons were cast out and sent to the earth just prior to the start of the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66 AD. should I keep going?

i got question when did humans become eternal or soul existing without end? did it happen when God breath to adam nostrils life? does bible say anything about it.

you say satan was cast here ok but satan was already here in book of job. remember satan go to God and God ask where have you been and satan says here and there roaming about something like that?

thats my questions

PlainWord · Sep 28, 2019

Melach said:

Correct, Satan was here and there back then. Back then he and his angels moved back and forth between physical and spiritual realms. We have plenty of examples of angels coming to our realm and appearing as men. Gen 6:3-4 teaches that angels slept with humans giving birth to giants. Humans always had a body, soul and spirit. We have these three parts just as God has three parts and we were made in His image. Soul and spirit are, and have always been eternal.

The flesh body, as we know, decays and turns to dust, "back from whence it came." Gen 2:7 teaches that our physical bodies were taken from dust and return to dust. Thus our bodies are from this realm and they stay in this realm. Paul teaches in 1 Cor 15 that our bodies are corrupt and no corrupt thing can ever enter heaven. Not one molecule of our dead body becomes a part of our spiritual body. Most don't understand this.

If we turn back to Adam and the original sin, prior to their sin, God gives them this warning: "...for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” We know that since they didn't physically die on that day that God must have been talking about their spiritual death. (It is sometimes difficult to discern, when the Bible is discussing physical or spiritual things). Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden and there is no record of God ever walking with them again, thus, they spiritually died on that day.

Spiritual Death = Separation from the Lord
Spiritual Life = Present with the Lord

This curse remained with all humans until Christ set the captives (in Hades) free in the first century AD. This was called, "the restoration of all things" (Acts 3:21). As I mentioned, before then none could go straight to heaven (except for Enoch and Elijah). But now that those in Hades have been set free, when we die in our age, we go straight to heaven as we are taught, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" 2 Cor 5:8. There are numerous near death experiences where people came back and told stories of seeing Jesus and/or loved ones.

Ecc 12:7 states, "Then the dust (body) will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it." Both Peter and Paul taught that our earthly body is nothing more than what they called, "a tent" or a covering. It serves no purpose when we die. When we accept Christ, we receive a new invisible spiritual body. Upon death, this body with soul and spirit go straight to heaven, while our physical body stays here.

Spiritual beings, when they can be observed on earth by mortals, are seen as a light. The brighter the light, the more glorious the spirit. This is why Christ's appearance to Saul blinded him on the road to Damascus. 3 times Saul (Paul) retold the story as a light bright as the sun that surrounded him. In 1 Cor 15, Paul teaches that God gives us each a spiritual body as He pleases which I interpret as our reward in the spiritual realm. I also equate glory with brightness. "We are the lights of this world."

Starflower7 · Oct 4, 2019

RevelationMan said:

I think that's an interesting concept to explore, but after thinking about it and looking at the Bible verses related to death, I don't believe it works.

For example, there are a variety of plain blanket statements in the Bible that make it clear that death is a sleep (John 11:11-14; Psalm 13:3), that the dead know nothing (Ecc. 9:5-6), that the dead do not give praise to God while they are dead (Ps. 115:17), that people's thoughts perish when they die (Ps. 146:4), and that the dead do not return from their graves (Job 7:9-10).

There may be a few exceptions such as Enoch, who was translated without seeing death, and Moses, whom God specifically chose to take to heaven after death (Jude 1:9), but the Bible indicates that the other 99.99% of people "sleep" in their graves until the resurrection (John. 5:25, 28-29).

Psalm 6:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Heyjude · Oct 4, 2019

Starflower7 said:

I wondered about this as well. But in “sleep” we don't know anything, so “a twinkle of an eye” can be a moment from sleep to awakening, whether it be 8 hours sleep or a thousand years. Although sometimes, here on earth when you sleep, you feel you have been asleep for “ages” when you wake up. If that is the case, then there is no time lapse we are aware of when awakening and it would appear to us like a “twinkling of an eye - in a moment”, even though it could have been “ages”.

“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (1 Cor 15.52)

What does “in the twinkling of an eye mean? Quick as a flash? And would be remember anything of the past anyhow I wonder.

ChristWhoLivesInMe · Oct 4, 2019

Deade said:

Nobody is in heaven or hell yet! I believe the dead are asleep. Paul may have said: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. OK, to close your eyes at night: presto - it is morning. It is the same principal.

Nobody is in heaven yet: John 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." They are asleep.

Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."

Acts 2:34, 35: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool."

All the OT patriarchs are mentioned in Heb.11 and none of them have received their reward yet. Heb. 12 is just a reference to Mount Zion which is new Jerusalem, yet future. Heb. 11:40: "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." New Jerusalem is being prepared and is coming to earth with the "many mansions" that the father is preparing.

Be aware that Sheol and Hades simply refers to the grave. Our doctrine of a dwelling place of the dead is inserted into Strong's Concordance as a reference. The reference in Revelation where they are tormented day and night forever, their smoke ascending forever could refer to something captured on film, therefore forever preserved. The reference in Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched" I believe is another example of that. It just does not make sense of a maggot that never dies.

All said, as I stated before all scripture has to fit together, in what we teach, or none of it is valid. Some things were presented in parables with figurative speech. Some things maybe we don't quite understand yet. God will not reveal some things until He is ready for us to know.

I feel Lazarus and the rich man is a parable despite the proper names. Besides it is just in one place in scripture without a second witness. 2 Cor. 13:1 "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

I would like to add these scriptures as well (if you don't mind).

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Magenta · Oct 4, 2019

Heyjude said:

I wondered about this as well. But in “sleep” we don't know anything, so “a twinkle of an eye” can be a moment from sleep to awakening, whether it be 8 hours sleep or a thousand years. Although sometimes, here on earth when you sleep, you feel you have been asleep for “ages” when you wake up. If that is the case, then there is no time lapse we are aware of when awakening and it would appear to us like a “twinkling of an eye - in a moment”, even though it could have been “ages”.

“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (1 Cor 15.52)

What does “in the twinkling of an eye mean? Quick as a flash? And would be remember anything of the past anyhow I wonder.

People are not completely unaware in sleep, for instance, we are conscious of the passing of time and dream, also

Starflower7 · Oct 4, 2019

Heyjude said:

Hmm...my understanding was that the "twinkling of an eye" referred to us being changed into our immortal bodies (see the end of verse 51). However, I also think that when you die and fall "asleep," as it were, you would feel like it was just the "twinkling of an eye" that you were asleep before you wake up to hear Jesus' voice and see His face. Awesome thought.

Heyjude · Oct 5, 2019

Magenta said:

True so true. "To die — to sleep. To sleep — perchance to dream: ay, there’s the rub! For in that sleep of death what dreams may come?"

Webers.Home · Nov 28, 2019

.
Jonah took ship from Joppa to travel to the city of Tarshish (Jonah 1:3).
That city's exact location is contested; but I think most folk would agree that
it lay somewhere in the direction of Spain. Anyway we can at least be pretty
sure that Jonah's rendezvous with the big fish took place in the
Mediterranean Sea.

Jonah's preaching was very successful in Nineveh; and Jesus specifically
credited the prophet's success to his experience with the fish. (Matt 12:39
41)

Well the thing is; Nineveh's ruins are eleven miles north of Mosul Iraq, which
itself is roughly 406 miles inland from the Mediterranean Sea as the crow
flies. So my question is: How were the Ninevites aware that Jonah was a
man back from dead if the city didn't actually observed him come ashore
from the fish's mouth?

Somehow, in some way, the people of Nineveh were aware that Jonah
survived drowning and digestion in a fish's tummy; a survival that could only
be explained by an honest-to-gosh miracle. So when Jonah went round
about the city threatening it with destruction; nobody mocked, nobody
jested, and nobody poked fun-- instead, everybody got really scared;
including their king, and as everybody familiar with the book of Nahum
knows, the citizens of Nineveh were a really brutal people not easily
intimidated.

This all tells me that Jonah's experience with the fish wasn't a contingency.
It was in the plan all along, though the prophet likely didn't know it, because
God needed something very persuasive to get those people's attention.

Well; Jonah's recovery worked for Nineveh, but some people are as dense as
the wall of China.

● Luke 16:27-31 . .The rich man said: I beg you, Father, that you send
Lazarus to my father's house-- for I have five brothers --that he may warn
them, lest they also come to this place of torment.

. . . But Abraham said: They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear
them. But he said: No, Father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from
the dead, they will repent! But Abraham said to him: If they do not listen to
Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises
from the dead.
_

Pinkney · Nov 28, 2019

Magenta said:

amen!

Pinkney · Nov 29, 2019

John 3:13

Pinkney · Nov 29, 2019

And no man has ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of Heaven, even the Son of Man,which is in Heaven.

John146 · Nov 29, 2019

Webers.Home said:

Depends on how you look at it. Jonah declared that in forty days Nineveh would be overthrown. Nineveh was not overthrown. It made Jonah look like a false prophet.

John146 · Nov 29, 2019

Pinkney said:

Enoch?

garee · Nov 29, 2019

John146 said:

Enoch was used to signify the first resurrection spoken of as the graves opening. This is when unseen spirits of old testament saints were released from a holding pen called the bosom of Abraham, the invisible presence of God and enter the true new Jerusalem .And not the shadow here on earth.

He said if he by lifted up. . . the gospel as the finished work will draw them. No corrupted flesh and blood can enter.

Flesh and blood could never enter the incorruptible order as new creatures. Neither male nor female, Jew nor gentile. Not made after the rudiments of this corrupted creation.

garee · Nov 29, 2019

John146 said:

Nineveh was not overthrown. . because they heard the gospel (God turning and repenting, away from his fierce anger) and they were given the faith to believe the invisible One. Jonas wanted to end his life it made him look like a unbeliever.

John146 · Nov 29, 2019

garee said:

Enoch was used to signify the first resurrection spoken of as the graves opening. This is when unseen spirits of old testament saints were released from a holding pen called the bosom of Abraham, the invisible presence of God and enter the true new Jerusalem .And not the shadow here on earth.

He said if he by lifted up. . . the gospel as the finished work will draw them. No corrupted flesh and blood can enter.

Flesh and blood could never enter the incorruptible order as new creatures. Neither male nor female, Jew nor gentile. Not made after the rudiments of this corrupted creation.

Enoch was taken by God as a type of raptured saint who will not taste death. Enoch is an exception, not the rule.

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