Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

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Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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yes , this is the Hebrew word for command .

but, I was speaking of the word LAW. the word Torah is not in the text . the word torot .

so, as usual, when you are proven wrong, you change the subject.

but, I understand, you have to defend your religion.

and, since you do not think Jesus was fully God and fully man, I could care less about what you think .

and no, I am not ashamed to call Jesus Lord and Savior. He is both. much more than Messiah and High Priest.
( Strong's Exhaustive Concordance) "Laws" {8451} Hebrew torah = a precept or statute. Decalogue, Pentateuch

The Hebrew word for "law" in both Genesis 26, and Exodus 16 is "Torah".

It's not "me" saying this. Look it up for yourself.

Jesus once said of the Mainstream Preachers of His time;

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

God used the exact same Word when He told us why Abraham was blessed in Gen. 26, as He did when His people refused to honor His Sabbath in Ex. 16.

It's not my opinion, my belief, my words. It is a Biblical fact that can not be denied.

Your preaching that He used different words in these two examples is a "commandment of men", completely divorced from the reality of scriptures. And when a Brother clearly points this out, you mock them, ridicule them, and belittle them. Even after you must surely see that the Bible is right in this matter.

This is exactly what the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did when a simple man, a lowly carpenter, opened their own Bible and showed them where they, like you, were preaching lies abut God's Word.

If you really loved the Christ of the Bible, you would not only want to know these things, but would repent upon finding out. Just as the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, had they really Loved the Lord their God, would have repented like Nineveh did when Jesus pointed out their deception.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,877
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( Strong's Exhaustive Concordance) "Laws" {8451} Hebrew torah = a precept or statute. Decalogue, Pentateuch

The Hebrew word for "law" in both Genesis 26, and Exodus 16 is "Torah".

It's not "me" saying this. Look it up for yourself.

Jesus once said of the Mainstream Preachers of His time;

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

God used the exact same Word when He told us why Abraham was blessed in Gen. 26, as He did when His people refused to honor His Sabbath in Ex. 16.

It's not my opinion, my belief, my words. It is a Biblical fact that can not be denied.

Your preaching that He used different words in these two examples is a "commandment of men", completely divorced from the reality of scriptures. And when a Brother clearly points this out, you mock them, ridicule them, and belittle them. Even after you must surely see that the Bible is right in this matter.

This is exactly what the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did when a simple man, a lowly carpenter, opened their own Bible and showed them where they, like you, were preaching lies abut God's Word.

If you really loved the Christ of the Bible, you would not only want to know these things, but would repent upon finding out. Just as the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, had they really Loved the Lord their God, would have repented like Nineveh did when Jesus pointed out their deception.
you are correct. I stand corrected. the word Torah is said there.

but, the word Torah can also mean instructions, it does not singularly mean law. so, since the Law came through Moses, Jesus said this, it fits that Abraham kept God's instructions.

so, even when you are right, you fail to be honest.

Jesus was fully God and fully man. you need to accept this truth.

and until you do, you ain't my brother, you might as well be an atheist.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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You don't it is through Faith. Actually the Faith.
Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

I guess this blows your theory out of the water.

Romans 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So you have a choice. You can choose your work at the law. Or you can choose coming to Christ and receiving Rest from your work at the law.

I suppose you have already made your choice. Perhaps the reader will make a wiser one.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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="Grandpa, post: 3769853, member: 93985"]Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Your version of this scripture doesn't render the entire Bible Void.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What were the "Works of the Law" Paul is speaking about here?

"Love the Lord with all your heart"? "Love your neighbor as yourself"? Do you preach this is the teaching that the Jews were "Bewitching" the Galatians with?

When Jesus cleansed the Leper, did He perform the Priesthood "works of the Law" given to the Levites to heal Lepers? Or did He "Learn Obedience" from the things He suffered and was given the power of Faith God gives to everyone who Loves Him enough to do as He instructs?

When Jesus forgave sins, did He do it by following the "works of the Law" God gave to Levites for the cleansing of sins? Or did He forgive sins by the power His Father gave Him because He was a Faithful Son?

We have spoken about this before and I know you will not hear. The "Law" that the Jews were still pushing for justification of sins is not of Faith. But the Following Law is.

2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Your preaching that the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to Love their Neighbor as their self and Love the Lord their God is a deception. The Jews were still pushing their version of the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for justification and remission of sins. Your unbelief doesn't make the Bible Void.


I guess this blows your theory out of the water.

Romans 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The Christ took away our sins, not God's Definition of sin. Once our past sins have been removed we are "free" to serve God once again. Not in disobedience which caused our death in the first place, but in reverence and respect to the God of the Bible by follow His Spiritual Instructions, not our own religious traditions and doctrines. The Law can't give life, Jesus is the only one who can do that. Why would man want to continue in disobedience after He died to remove the disobedience? We now walk in the Spirit. (God's Law is Spiritual) not in the Flesh (Man's religion is a filthy rag)

So you have a choice. You can choose your work at the law. Or you can choose coming to Christ and receiving Rest from your work at the law.
Your preaching that Jesus frees us from God's Righteousness is an insidious deception. The idea that I was condemned because I followed God's Laws but the Christ died so I could be free from His Fathers instructions is really bad. LB was just trying to warn of this religious teaching which does not come from above.

I suppose you have already made your choice. Perhaps the reader will make a wiser one.
This reader thinks you should humble yourself to "Every Word of God" as the Christ instructed and not just a few scriptures which can be twisted to justify your religion.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Your version of this scripture doesn't render the entire Bible Void.
No. Just your twisted version.

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What were the "Works of the Law" Paul is speaking about here?

"Love the Lord with all your heart"? "Love your neighbor as yourself"? Do you preach this is the teaching that the Jews were "Bewitching" the Galatians with?

When Jesus cleansed the Leper, did He perform the Priesthood "works of the Law" given to the Levites to heal Lepers? Or did He "Learn Obedience" from the things He suffered and was given the power of Faith God gives to everyone who Loves Him enough to do as He instructs?

When Jesus forgave sins, did He do it by following the "works of the Law" God gave to Levites for the cleansing of sins? Or did He forgive sins by the power His Father gave Him because He was a Faithful Son?

We have spoken about this before and I know you will not hear. The "Law" that the Jews were still pushing for justification of sins is not of Faith. But the Following Law is.

2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Your preaching that the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to Love their Neighbor as their self and Love the Lord their God is a deception. The Jews were still pushing their version of the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for justification and remission of sins. Your unbelief doesn't make the Bible Void.
This is really, really dumb.

How many Christians have to be dissuaded to stop sacrificing animals?

Answer - NONE.

How many Christians have to be persuaded to stop their work at the law and continue to follow Christ and His Spirit?

Obviously a lot do. For some weird reason some Christians think they need to try to work at being righteous by following their understanding of the Law.

But Paul calls this foolish. If you can understand Paul, which you don't, it is obvious how foolish it is.




The Christ took away our sins, not God's Definition of sin. Once our past sins have been removed we are "free" to serve God once again. Not in disobedience which caused our death in the first place, but in reverence and respect to the God of the Bible by follow His Spiritual Instructions, not our own religious traditions and doctrines. The Law can't give life, Jesus is the only one who can do that. Why would man want to continue in disobedience after He died to remove the disobedience? We now walk in the Spirit. (God's Law is Spiritual) not in the Flesh (Man's religion is a filthy rag)



Your preaching that Jesus frees us from God's Righteousness is an insidious deception. The idea that I was condemned because I followed God's Laws but the Christ died so I could be free from His Fathers instructions is really bad. LB was just trying to warn of this religious teaching which does not come from above.



This reader thinks you should humble yourself to "Every Word of God" as the Christ instructed and not just a few scriptures which can be twisted to justify your religion.
Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Why are you blind? And why do you attempt to lead other blind ones?

Because you don't understand and you don't see.

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

This ONE verse contradicts EVERYTHING you have said. All it took was 1.

This does not say blessed are the STRONG who can obey and follow Gods "instructions". But if you were strong and not blind then there is this;

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So far only you and the Lord Jesus Christ have been able to do this just by being instructed to. You must be very proud. Or just exceedingly arrogant and blind. I'm going with the latter.
 

Embankment

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Feb 28, 2017
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Christ paid the price for our sin when he died on the cross. THE most important event in the history of the universe!!!
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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="Grandpa, post: 3770194, member: 93985"]No. Just your twisted version.



This is really, really dumb.

How many Christians have to be dissuaded to stop sacrificing animals?

Answer - NONE.
Paul was speaking about the Jews here. He was addressing the teaching of the only God of Abraham preaching people on the planet. They were trying to get the Galatians to follow their version of the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for remission of sins. Your refusal to acknowledge this is not only foolish, but wicked as well.

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Your preaching that the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to Love God and Love their neighbor is an insidious lie that the scriptures clearly expose. Those "bewitching" the Galatians were not trying to get them to Love their Neighbor or Love God, they were trying to persuade them to revert back to an obsolete Priesthood that the Christ changed as prophesied.

your unbelief in this truth doesn't make the scriptures void.

How many Christians have to be persuaded to stop their work at the law and continue to follow Christ and His Spirit?
Only the deceiver would have a religion which calls God's instructions evil and promote that Christians "Stop their work at following His Word."

Obviously a lot do. For some weird reason some Christians think they need to try to work at being righteous by following their understanding of the Law.

But Paul calls this foolish. If you can understand Paul, which you don't, it is obvious how foolish it is.
Some, who call themselves Christians, believe they should do as the Christ instructs. Paul was one such Christian.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Not the "Law of Works" which Paul said was ADDED to an existing Law "until the Seed should come", but by the Law of Faith that the Mainstream Preachers of His time had omitted from their religion.

Rom. 3:
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by (The Law of) faith without the deeds of the law. (Of Works)

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

It is a requirement of the Law to Love God and have Faith in Him. This is called the "Law of faith". Abraham had and obeyed this Law as it is written.

The fact that you are preaching in His name, yet deny this Biblical Truth, is really dumb.


Matthew 15:14
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Why are you blind? And why do you attempt to lead other blind ones?

Because you don't understand and you don't see.

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

This ONE verse contradicts EVERYTHING you have said. All it took was 1.

This does not say blessed are the STRONG who can obey and follow Gods "instructions". But if you were strong and not blind then there is this;

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So far only you and the Lord Jesus Christ have been able to do this just by being instructed to. You must be very proud. Or just exceedingly arrogant and blind. I'm going with the latter.
I have grown very accustomed to you White Washed Walls insults and ridicule. You preach lies about God's Word all day long and then ridicule those who would expose them.

My Lord said to : "24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

That is goal of all "Christians". At least those who follow the Christ of the Bible.

Nevertheless, your preaching that the Jews were trying to convince the Galatians to follow the "Law of Faith" and not the "Law of Works" is a falsehood that has deceived many. I understand you are not allowed to SEE this. I am glad to see some brothers on this forum has been freed from this insidious deception.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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Your preaching that the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to Love God and Love their neighbor is an insidious lie that the scriptures clearly expose.
Is that really necessary? To call someone else's view an insidious lie.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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Only the deceiver would have a religion which calls God's instructions evil and promote that Christians "Stop their work at following His Word."
Is that really necessary? To infer that someone else's religion is from the deceiver (Satan)?
 

Sketch

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Nov 1, 2018
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I have grown very accustomed to you White Washed Walls insults and ridicule. You preach lies about God's Word all day long and then ridicule those who would expose them.
Is that really necessary? That's four, or five.
 

Sketch

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Nov 1, 2018
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That is goal of all "Christians". At least those who follow the Christ of the Bible.
Is that really necessary? Inferring that Grandpa is not following the Christ of the Bible. What was that, five or six in one post? Nice work. What was that you were saying about love and the law? Remind me. Thanks.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
You don't it is through Faith. Actually the Faith.
Galatians 3:10-12
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

I guess this blows your theory out of the water.
What theory? That we are not justified; made righteous by keeping the written code; the Book of the Law, but by Faith? Christ; the Word; the Commandments in our hearts, minds and mouths. This is the word of Faith Paul preached and I. Christ in us the hope of Glory. For we that have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Romans 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
What is it you think the law of sin is?

So you have a choice. You can choose your work at the law. Or you can choose coming to Christ and receiving Rest from your work at the law.

I suppose you have already made your choice. Perhaps the reader will make a wiser one.
Judge not lest you be judged. I choose the Faith that is in and of Christ.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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Have you read grandpa's posts. He is doing the same thing. Ill begets ill.
An eye for an eye, then?

Two wrongs never make a right. You need to do what is right.
If Grandpa is doing that to you, then it is wrong as well.
I guess I haven't seen it.

You both need to be civil. Right?
This is an opportunity to be the better man.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
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HBG. Pa. USA
An eye for an eye, then?

Two wrongs never make a right. You need to do what is right.
If Grandpa is doing that to you, then it is wrong as well.
I guess I haven't seen it.

You both need to be civil. Right?
This is an opportunity to be the better man.
LOL
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
681
185
43
An eye for an eye, then?

Two wrongs never make a right. You need to do what is right.
If Grandpa is doing that to you, then it is wrong as well.
I guess I haven't seen it.

You both need to be civil. Right?
This is an opportunity to be the better man.
Yes that applies to individuals.
How about groups of people?
The USA wages war with other nations. Is that what Jesus is speaking of also?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
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Is that really necessary? Inferring that Grandpa is not following the Christ of the Bible. What was that, five or six in one post? Nice work. What was that you were saying about love and the law? Remind me. Thanks.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Telling lies about God and His Word is not God's "love". It might be you and GP's love. But not the Christ's.

The preaching that the Jews were trying to get the Galatians to follow God's Commandments is an insidious lie. You don't care, GP doesn't either. But some on this forum do.

I have gone around with GP on this before. Patiently and kindly at first, pointing out that the Jews were pushing justification by their version of the Levitical Priesthood. This is the Law that was "ADDED" until the seed should come. The Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" was what they were pushing on the Galatians. The Christ, as prophesied, was to become our High Priest and "Change" the Priesthood as it is written in Jer. 31, and Heb. 7. The Pharisees didn't "believe" in God's Word on this matter and created their own religion as the Christ declared above. They had a Priesthood with it's "Works", but had "omitted" important parts of His Instructions.

It's in your Bible.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Paul speaks to this in Romans 3:

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There is a "law of Faith"

EX. 20:
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

And there is a "Law of Works".

Ex. 20:
41 And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.

The preaching that the "Works of the Law" for justification of past sins are "not stealing" Loving God, Loving our neighbor, is an evil teaching. Paul was fighting with the Mainstream Preachers of His time which didn't believe much of what was written. He pointed out to them that Abraham was justified without a Levite Priest or the "works of the Law" of the Levitical Priesthood. Abraham obeyed God's laws. but he didn't have the Levitical Priesthood, Levi wasn't even born yet. This "Law" was ADDED 430 years later.

satan, true to it's original deception, has convinced you and GP that the Jews were trying to teach people to Love God and Love their neighbor as the Law and Prophets teach. And that Paul is teaching against such things.

the Biblical truth is that the Jews were pushing on the Galatians their version of the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins, and had omitted "love the stranger", forgive your brother, and "I am the Lord your God", listen to ME.

GP refuses to even discuss this, choosing instead to insult and ridicule over the past year. It seems you have chosen the same path.

That's very sad.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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What theory? That we are not justified; made righteous by keeping the written code; the Book of the Law, but by Faith? Christ; the Word; the Commandments in our hearts, minds and mouths. This is the word of Faith Paul preached and I. Christ in us the hope of Glory. For we that have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Your theory that Christ IS the Law and Christ is the 10 commandments. Paul DID NOT preach that.

Its one or the other. You are under the law and under the curse or you are in Christ by faith and under no condemnation.

What is it you think the law of sin is?
The bible tells us what it is.

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Romans 7:7-9
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The law of sin and death. The 10 commandments. It shows sin. It shows death. It shows condemnation.

In contrast to this is Faith in Christ.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

It is a deadly egregious error to think that Christ is the 10 commandments and this ministration of death and condemnation is placed in the Christians Heart.

Especially since Romans 8:2 expressly says that Christ has freed us from that. As well as Christ Himself in Matthew 11:28
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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What did you find humorous in my post?
Here it is again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An eye for an eye, then?

Two wrongs never make a right. You need to do what is right.
If Grandpa is doing that to you, then it is wrong as well.
I guess I haven't seen it.

You both need to be civil. Right?
This is an opportunity to be the better man.