Hebrews 10:26-31

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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But to believe is a one time event. otherwise it wasn't grace :)
Then why is "believe" in the present tense (Greek) in John 3:16 - which means ongoing action - for whosoever keeps believing in Him (Jesus) has eternal life? ("believe" is quite frequently in the present tense in the NT)

Again, we may each have our opinions - but for myself, I see believing as not something I did at a moment in time to attain living forever. I see "believing" as an ongoing relying on, leaning on, and resting on my Saviour.

I don't understand your statement "otherwise it wasn't grace" - I need and desire grace every day, and I need it every day! :eek:
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
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Then why is "believe" in the present tense (Greek) in John 3:16 - which means ongoing action - for whosoever keeps believing in Him (Jesus) has eternal life? ("believe" is quite frequently in the present tense in the NT)

Again, we may each have our opinions - but for myself, I see believing as not something I did at a moment in time to attain living forever. I see "believing" as an ongoing relying on, leaning on, and resting on my Saviour.

I don't understand your statement "otherwise it wasn't grace" - I need and desire grace every day, and I need it every day! :eek:
We lose it everytime we stop believing? Well, then... shouldn't we stop sleeping? :)
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
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[video=youtube;jKJI-l_IjNk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKJI-l_IjNk
[/video]
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,353
113
Then why is "believe" in the present tense (Greek) in John 3:16 - which means ongoing action - for whosoever keeps believing in Him (Jesus) has eternal life? ("believe" is quite frequently in the present tense in the NT)

Again, we may each have our opinions - but for myself, I see believing as not something I did at a moment in time to attain living forever. I see "believing" as an ongoing relying on, leaning on, and resting on my Saviour.

I don't understand your statement "otherwise it wasn't grace" - I need and desire grace every day, and I need it every day! :eek:
What is it to keep believing?

What about someone like me who did not go to church for 13 years.
Never lost my faith in Jesus but the church?

Had a ministry, got burned out.

Rejected by elders when I asked for help because i needed a break and input, because I could no longer give out.
Suffering with severe anxiety, depression, running a company with 30 people and providing for my wife and 4 young kids.

What say you to me.

Never lost my faith in Jesus, the truth that he is the Son of God who died and rose again.

Would you write me off like many did?

Be honest
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
What is it to keep believing?

What about someone like me who did not go to church for 13 years.
Never lost my faith in Jesus but the church?

Had a ministry, got burned out.

Rejected by elders when I asked for help because i needed a break and input, because I could no longer give out.
Suffering with severe anxiety, depression, running a company with 30 people and providing for my wife and 4 young kids.

What say you to me.

Never lost my faith in Jesus, the truth that he is the Son of God who died and rose again.

Would you write me off like many did?

Be honest
How many sins were paid?
All but not effectual until you receive Him personally as your savior:

John 1:12-13, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

If you have NOT received Him:

John 8:24, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

In that case NONE!

The way has been made so you don't have to die in your sins:

Acts 13:37-39, “But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Galatians 3:13-14, “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

Romans 3:19-28, “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

1 John 1:7, “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,353
113
How many sins were paid?
All but not effectual until you receive Him personally as your savior:

John 1:12-13, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

If you have NOT received Him:

John 8:24, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

In that case NONE!

The way has been made so you don't have to die in your sins:

Acts 13:37-39, “But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Galatians 3:13-14, “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

Romans 3:19-28, “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

1 John 1:7, “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
Jesus was my saviour and that I confessed.

Are you saying I did not?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,907
4,353
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Don't worry, I am sure you did :)
Sorry if I'm a bit sensetive about this.

My experience had been that it's easy to write people off.
I was subject to that, yet people who did that never took the time of day to come alongside.

That is shocking and very sad.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
Sorry if I'm a bit sensetive about this.

My experience had been that it's easy to write people off.
I was subject to that, yet people who did that never took the time of day to come alongside.

That is shocking and very sad.
Yeah, you are right, salvation is more than being saved. Jesus helps us to clean our lives
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,286
1,418
113
What is it to keep believing?

What about someone like me who did not go to church for 13 years.
Never lost my faith in Jesus but the church?

Had a ministry, got burned out.

Rejected by elders when I asked for help because i needed a break and input, because I could no longer give out.
Suffering with severe anxiety, depression, running a company with 30 people and providing for my wife and 4 young kids.

What say you to me.

Never lost my faith in Jesus, the truth that he is the Son of God who died and rose again.

Would you write me off like many did?

Be honest
You clearly said (if I am understanding) that you never lost faith in Christ - Praise the Lord!

If so (and I am not the judge) then you were a believer. Salvation is not based on whether you went to church, and neither did God throw you out because you were depressed or anxious, etc.

Where the problem comes is when you have someone who is a blatant atheist and no longer professes to believe in Christ - will they get into heaven because at fifteen they had a sincere and real conversion? I will let God be the judge!
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
You clearly said (if I am understanding) that you never lost faith in Christ - Praise the Lord!

If so (and I am not the judge) then you were a believer. Salvation is not based on whether you went to church, and neither did God throw you out because you were depressed or anxious, etc.

Where the problem comes is when you have someone who is a blatant atheist and no longer professes to believe in Christ - will they get into heaven because at fifteen they had a sincere and real conversion? I will let God be the judge!
God will chastise them and try to get them back (Hebrews 12:5-11).

Works mentioined in Romans 11:6:
ergon: work
Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ergon
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
Short Definition: work, labor, action, deed
Definition: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,286
1,418
113
[video=youtube;jKJI-l_IjNk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKJI-l_IjNk
[/video]
Do you know what this guy teaches? I looked him up and looked at a few of his videos . . .

(1) He is a very strong KJV only
(2) He overdoes dispensationalism - so that for example Acts 2:38 is for the Jewish people (not us)
(3) Out of # 2 then the Pauline epistles are what is written for us Chrisitans - that is I Corinthians to Philemon. Genesis to Acts and Hebrews to Revelation focus on works and are for the Jews (???)
(4) A Christian can live a defiled and sinful life all the way to the end, and God may need to destroy (kill) him but he is still considered part of the Holy Temple of God (no matter how much his life is defiled)
(#4 is almost word for word from the link below)

See this link - (Disclaimer - I do not agree with what this guy is saying here)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slPc5R_EZsc
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
Do you know what this guy teaches? I looked him up and looked at a few of his videos . . .

(1) He is a very strong KJV only
(2) He overdoes dispensationalism - so that for example Acts 2:38 is for the Jewish people (not us)
(3) Out of # 2 then the Pauline epistles are what is written for us Chrisitans - that is I Corinthians to Philemon. Genesis to Acts and Hebrews to Revelation focus on works and are for the Jews (???)
(4) A Christian can live a defiled and sinful life all the way to the end, and God may need to destroy (kill) him but he is still considered part of the Holy Temple of God (no matter how much his life is defiled)
(#4 is almost word for word from the link below)

See this link - (Disclaimer - I do not agree with what this guy is saying here)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slPc5R_EZsc
I did a thread on God's chastisement. Also, in this video Dr. Kim used biblical proof for his statement.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
and of course you delete the scriptures from my posts

i should know by now

*sigh*
You continue to interpret 1 John 2:19 as meaning only fake believers can fall away even though you were shown vs.24 does not allow you to interpret it that way. What point is there in showing you again?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Amen, Ralph sadly turns salvation to a process
No, salvation is not a process. Even the weakest of weakest believers (present tense) is absolutely saved, right now.

What we grow up into is firm and unmovable believing. Weak believers are saved, but since their roots don't go down very deep because of the type of soil their heart is, the word of God can be uprooted from their hearts more easily by trials and temptations.

But the person who matures to the fourth type of soil can not have the word of God uprooted from his heart because it is deeply rooted in them and in perseverance produces fruit. They are the one's who 'know' Christ and can not fall away.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
You continue to interpret 1 John 2:19 as meaning only fake believers can fall away even though you were shown vs.24 does not allow you to interpret it that way. What point is there in showing you again?
If a person could lose his salvation, there was no chastisement. God would just say "well, OK, I'll let you jump off the narrow road, you have to get back by yourself". But there IS chastisement.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
No, salvation is not a process. Even the weakest of weakest believers (present tense) is absolutely saved, right now.

What we grow up into is firm and unmovable believing. Weak believers are saved, but since their roots don't go down very deep because of the type of soil their heart is, the word of God can be uprooted from their hearts more easily by trials and temptations.

But the person who matures to the fourth type of soil can not have the word of God uprooted from his heart because it is deeply rooted in them and in perseverance produces fruit. They are the one's who 'know' Christ and can not fall away.
Every saved man knows Christ.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Then Jesus wouldn't have said "never".
Believers (present tense) will NEVER perish.

That does not apply to ex-believers. The promise is for BELIEVERS, not former believers, or those who never believed.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
Do you know what this guy teaches? I looked him up and looked at a few of his videos . . .

(1) He is a very strong KJV only
(2) He overdoes dispensationalism - so that for example Acts 2:38 is for the Jewish people (not us)
(3) Out of # 2 then the Pauline epistles are what is written for us Chrisitans - that is I Corinthians to Philemon. Genesis to Acts and Hebrews to Revelation focus on works and are for the Jews (???)
(4) A Christian can live a defiled and sinful life all the way to the end, and God may need to destroy (kill) him but he is still considered part of the Holy Temple of God (no matter how much his life is defiled)
(#4 is almost word for word from the link below)

See this link - (Disclaimer - I do not agree with what this guy is saying here)
Based on 2, 3 and 4, and the first 5 seconds of the video you posted, he looks to be a Free Grace (or some variant) teacher.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Every saved man knows Christ.
If that were true then all Christians would love their neighbor.

But we can plainly see just from the evidence of this Christian forum and others that actually very few Christians have an intimate 'knowing' relationship with Christ. Christ knows them in salvation but they do not know him intimately.

He knows us before we know him intimately. We mature and grow up into that intimacy. We know we have matured to that level of intimacy by if we are obedient to the command to love others.


"Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."-1 John 4:7-8