Hebrews 6:1-6

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Mar 12, 2014
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#81
Heb 6:6 "If they shall fall away...."

Gal 5:4 ".
..ye are fallen from grace."

Acts 1:25 ".
... from which Judas by transgression fell."

Lk 8:13 ".
.... which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

1 Cor 10:12 "
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

1 Tim 3:6,7 "
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride hefall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

Heb 4:11 "
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

James 5:12 ".... but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."

2 Pet 2:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall neverfall:"

2 Pet 3:17 "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."


Logically, for one to fall out of a tree, he must first climb up and be in that tree to fall from it. Likewise for a Christian to fall implies he must be in a saved position to fall from it......falling from a saved position into one of condemnation.
One that was always fallen cannot fall.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#82
Again with the false Catholic accusations as I do not go by any of their books or their customs.
I only go by the Word of God and His Holy Spirit to guide me, you have been so badly lead in a hate doctrine toward the Catholic church that it blinds you to some truths the bible does give that they do teach in their churches. They teach a lot of things contrary to the bible, but they do have a few truths they do teach. Your hate doctrine toward them shows brightly in your responses, and the bible clearly warns of such doctrines as well. For we are called to love all people, and not just those who are brothers and sisters in Christ.

So once again I am not lead by men as you so falsely claim on me.
As I stated before those who are Holy Spirit lead Apostles mentioned in the bible we can not discount their writings, and the Holy Spirit will not disregard His own truth as well. He can not deny Himself !!!

Show me one scripture that says the words, "Once saved always saved."
You as a few others like to use word play when it suits you, so show me one scripture in the bible that has those exact words used. You will not because it was started by a man and not mentioned in the word of God.

Jesus

And then many will fall away..................


Holy Spirit through Paul

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith
Kind of like these men you reference and say that teach a works based/kept salvation.....

30-100 AD Clement of Rome "[We] are not justified by ourselves. Nor by our own wisdom, understanding, godliness, or works done in holiness of heart. But by that faith through which Almighty God has justified all men since the beginning." (Clement of Rome Corinthians chap. 32)

69-156 AD Polycarp
"Many desire to enter into this joy, knowing that 'by grace you are saved, not of works,' but by the will of God through Jesus Christ [Eph. 2:8]." (Polycarp Philippians chap. 1)

125 AD Barnabas "To this end the Lord delivered up His flesh to corruption, that we might be sanctified through the remission of sins, which is effected by His blood." (Barnabas Letter chap 5)

No works listed there......!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#83
Heb 6:6 "If they shall fall away...."

Gal 5:4 ".
..ye are fallen from grace."

Acts 1:25 ".
... from which Judas by transgression fell."

Lk 8:13 ".
.... which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

1 Cor 10:12 "
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

1 Tim 3:6,7 "
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride hefall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

Heb 4:11 "
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

James 5:12 ".... but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."

2 Pet 2:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall neverfall:"

2 Pet 3:17 "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."


Logically, for one to fall out of a tree, he must first climb up and be in that tree to fall from it. Likewise for a Christian to fall implies he must be in a saved position to fall from it......falling from a saved position into one of condemnation.
One that was always fallen cannot fall.
Though a JUST MAN FALLS 7 times YET SHALL HE RISE UP......Your works/water based COC doctrine bears no weight here.....anybody can take the bible snippets you just posted and take them out of context to teach something that is not there...for example...

Women shall be saved in child bearing.......better apply that word saved to soul salvation (erroneously) at that...!

Instead of Christian a new phrase fits your doctrine... Campbellian..........
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#84


God set them free from the law and now they were returning to that bondage (falling away). In denying Christianity they were treading underfoot the spirit of Grace and the atonement of Christ. They were going backwards. So in order to return to Christianity they were crucifying Jesus all over again. It was a difficult situation.
Many passages warning, admonishing them about falling away, returning back to the bondage of the OT law and Judaism:

Heb 2:1-3 "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;"

Heb 3:8,12-14,19 "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:....Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;....So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Heb 4:1,11 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.....Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

Heb 6:6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#85
Notice what the men he quotes taught......

30-100 AD Clement of Rome "[We] are not justified by ourselves. Nor by our own wisdom, understanding, godliness, or works done in holiness of heart. But by that faith through which Almighty God has justified all men since the beginning." (Clement of Rome Corinthians chap. 32)

69-156 AD Polycarp
"Many desire to enter into this joy, knowing that 'by grace you are saved, not of works,' but by the will of God through Jesus Christ [Eph. 2:8]." (Polycarp Philippians chap. 1)

125 AD Barnabas "To this end the Lord delivered up His flesh to corruption, that we might be sanctified through the remission of sins, which is effected by His blood." (Barnabas Letter chap 5)

No works listed there......!

Still sticking with the personal works flawed debate, as over and over again I do not preach or teach works to earn salvation. Please as I ask once again, "Stop" the false allegations against me that I do not, nor have I ever said. As you constantly ignore what I say, or twist it and read more into what I said to get your fault accusations. This rather you admit it or not comes out of hatred to keep bearing false witness and spreading of lies on another. If you want to prove you don't have hatred toward others, then stop bearing false witness on others.



Now you are just plain twisting the truth......I gave the complete definition of the word JUSTIFIED and you argued against it as a man made definition because it contradicted your self based salvation.....

So.......!
Once again every time I have given a Greek definition of a word and how it is used it has come from the Strong's Greek Concordance. So if you believe I am twisting the word then you are saying the Greek Concordance is doing the twisting, as I have been lead by the Holy Spirit to use that source for Greek understanding.

Because you said without giving a source justified means one is already redeemed now.
Apostle Paul and the writer in Hebrews shows the day of redemption comes at the Lords return not now, so one can not be redeemed already now and then get redeemed again in the future. IT is either one or the other, and the bible shows the day of redemption comes later at the Lords return. So yes I debated with you because that definition of redeemed now does not fit scripture...........



Post 75 and the very men he quotes contradict his view......

You say they contradict my view because you think I believe in personal works to earn salvation, which I do not.
Second the discussion had nothing to do with personal works so you are off topic any way. The quotes I gave were from the very first Holy Spirit lead church leaders like Barnabas and Polycarp who refute OSAS.
Just because a person does not agree with OSAS does not make them a works to earn salvation person. Stop listening to other men who have tried to use these faulty debates for years.

As one's personal works mean nothing when it comes to salvation.

However works through the fruits of the Holy Spirit prove one's faith to be true in Christ unto salvation.
To say these works of the Holy Spirit do not matter for salvation is a big lie initiated by satan himself into the church. For John would be lying then when he said the one who does not love does not know God. The person who does not know God will not have eternal life, and love is a fruit of the Spirit. Apostle Paul and Jesus both say it is the greatest fruit, because our faith hangs on love. No love toward all others shows one does not have God's Holy Spirit abiding in them............
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#86
So you believe that the Apostles gave false teachings by the Holy Spirit ???

Kenneth,

Peter was rebuked by Paul for his treatment of gentile believers after he had received the Holy Spirit; so the apostles had not achieved sinless perfection.

The only apostolic writings available to us come from Matthew, John, Peter, and Paul, and possibly James.

Mark and Luke were not apostles except in the sense of missionaries.

James was probably Jesus' brother though he could have been the son of Alphaeus.
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#87
Cant Peter's little encounter with Paul be looked at according to the same kind of principal found in Daniel where it speaks of some of them of understanding shall fall, to both try and purge them as well? And that being shown as it was has another apostle in the picture to keep things in check (for us)? In that way?
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#88
The Epistle of Barnabas was not written by the Barnabas who was with Paul. It is dated about 135 AD by which time Barnabas would have been long dead. This is agreed by all reputable scholars.

I am not speaking of the Epistle of Barnabas............

The quotes I gave from him as you can see where given the dates of which they were given, and it says they are from around 70 AD and not 135 AD that the epistle you mentioned is from. So this is a flawed debate as we are talking about two separate writings.

As I do agree some writings were left out because of when they were dated, so they could not have come from the person who's name is on it. However the quotes I gave from Barnabas came from around 70 AD in which he could have still written them. I am not blind to the dating of some and that it proves them to be false, but other writings have not been proven to be false and were found to be written by the Apostles in the bible. Yet many of those are not in the bible either, and others would tell you not to read them because it gives better insight into what was taught instead of the private interpretation men teach. The bible clearly warns about private interpretations of the Word....
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#89
Again with the false Catholic accusations as I do not go by any of their books or their customs.
I only go by the Word of God and His Holy Spirit to guide me, you have been so badly lead in a hate doctrine toward the Catholic church that it blinds you to some truths the bible does give that they do teach in their churches. They teach a lot of things contrary to the bible, but they do have a few truths they do teach. Your hate doctrine toward them shows brightly in your responses, and the bible clearly warns of such doctrines as well. For we are called to love all people, and not just those who are brothers and sisters in Christ.

So once again I am not lead by men as you so falsely claim on me.
As I stated before those who are Holy Spirit lead Apostles mentioned in the bible we can not discount their writings, and the Holy Spirit will not disregard His own truth as well. He can not deny Himself !!!

Show me one scripture that says the words, "Once saved always saved."
You as a few others like to use word play when it suits you, so show me one scripture in the bible that has those exact words used. You will not because it was started by a man and not mentioned in the word of God.

Jesus

And then many will fall away..................


Holy Spirit through Paul

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith
Your a liar.

You only go to go.

Yet you told us to go to sources outside of god. whihc mmeans you must go to them.

Make up your mind, You can say one thing, then do another (well maybe you can, you do it alot)
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#90
Though a JUST MAN FALLS 7 times YET SHALL HE RISE UP......Your works/water based COC doctrine bears no weight here.....anybody can take the bible snippets you just posted and take them out of context to teach something that is not there...for example...

Women shall be saved in child bearing.......better apply that word saved to soul salvation (erroneously) at that...!

Instead of Christian a new phrase fits your doctrine... Campbellian..........

The point I made which you are avoiding is if eternal security were true then all those verses I posted are lies for falling would be an impossibility under eternal security. Yet many verses plainly state the Christian can fall away and one must be is a saved position to fall for one who was always fallen cannot fall. Then it cannot be a case of he 'was never really saved to begin with" for if he was never saved he was always fallen.

Verses I posted speak of falling away into condemnation, snare of the devil..a lost state.

Prov 24:16 is talking about a just man, when a just man falls in tribulation, troubles and distress by the wicked man (verse 15) he riseth up. Though God allows the just to have to endure troubles from the wicked God will be with the just through their trials.


Yet "Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:" verse 17. "Falleth" in both verses 16 and 17 does not refer to falling away from salvation for the enemy is not saved in order for them to fall but if the enemy fall into trials and troubles themselves be not glad at heart for his troubles. Yet if the just man fall into trials and troubles God helps him.

1 Tim 2:15 has no bearing on the fact Christian can fall from salvation/grace into condemnation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#91


It doesn't seem that people understand why the book of Hebrews was written. What was the historical situation behind the book? It was simple - the book of Hebrews was written to the Jewish Christians who lived in Rome. It was written just before Nero began his severe persecution in early 65AD. From 65-68AD he murdered an estimated 5,000 Christians. How do I know? It says in the text "You have not yet resisted unto blood." Christians in general were being persecuted to a lesser degree before Nero began. As a result the Messianic or Jewish Christians were abandoning their Christianity and reverting back to Judaism and the synagogues in order to avoid persecution. This whole book addresses that problem. At that time the Jews were not being persecuted but of course that began to change in 66AD when the rebellion began at Jerusalem.


Your right, people do not know what it was written.

It was written because people went back to judaism/

what does judaism say.

1. Salvation is by works
2. Salvation can be lost
3. Salvation is not eternal. but conditional.

Thats why the author wrote it. Stop going to the elementary principles. Salvation is eternal. not lost and gained lost and gained back.

If you question that, If one could fall away, they could never be renewed because Christ did not pay for that sin to begin with, and there would be no more sacrifice for that sin, he is doomed forever.

Saying salvation can be lost puts Christ to shame, whether it be taught by judaism, Catholicisim, or works based protestantism. the passage applies to them all.


Thus the passage applies to us today, because many people teach the same thing.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#92
Kenneth,

Peter was rebuked by Paul for his treatment of gentile believers after he had received the Holy Spirit; so the apostles had not achieved sinless perfection.

The only apostolic writings available to us come from Matthew, John, Peter, and Paul, and possibly James.

Mark and Luke were not apostles except in the sense of missionaries.

James was probably Jesus' brother though he could have been the son of Alphaeus.

Yes rebuked by his treatment of the Gentiles, not rebuked for giving false teachings of the word.
And even if you go to the book of Galatians, Peter was not rebuked by Paul for giving false teaching. He was rebuked by Paul for letting false teachers sneak in and teach a false gospel to the Galatians.

Second James was an Apostle, and you left off the Apostle Jude's epistle.
You can try and discredit a persons stance as an apostle all you want by saying they were just missionaries, but the word of God will not let you. As it says the Lord appointed 70 others (Luke 10:1), Apostle Paul shows there was more then 12 apostles (1 Corinthians 15:4-8), and the bible clearly calls others such as Barnabas, Timothy, and Silvanus as apostles.

There has been a resounding lie throughout the past few years of teaching only 11 Apostles + Paul, but that is clearly refuted by many scriptures...............
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#93
Still sticking with the personal works flawed debate, as over and over again I do not preach or teach works to earn salvation. Please as I ask once again, "Stop" the false allegations against me that I do not, nor have I ever said. As you constantly ignore what I say, or twist it and read more into what I said to get your fault accusations. This rather you admit it or not comes out of hatred to keep bearing false witness and spreading of lies on another. If you want to prove you don't have hatred toward others, then stop bearing false witness on others.





Once again every time I have given a Greek definition of a word and how it is used it has come from the Strong's Greek Concordance. So if you believe I am twisting the word then you are saying the Greek Concordance is doing the twisting, as I have been lead by the Holy Spirit to use that source for Greek understanding.

Because you said without giving a source justified means one is already redeemed now.
Apostle Paul and the writer in Hebrews shows the day of redemption comes at the Lords return not now, so one can not be redeemed already now and then get redeemed again in the future. IT is either one or the other, and the bible shows the day of redemption comes later at the Lords return. So yes I debated with you because that definition of redeemed now does not fit scripture...........






You say they contradict my view because you think I believe in personal works to earn salvation, which I do not.
Second the discussion had nothing to do with personal works so you are off topic any way. The quotes I gave were from the very first Holy Spirit lead church leaders like Barnabas and Polycarp who refute OSAS.
Just because a person does not agree with OSAS does not make them a works to earn salvation person. Stop listening to other men who have tried to use these faulty debates for years.

As one's personal works mean nothing when it comes to salvation.

However works through the fruits of the Holy Spirit prove one's faith to be true in Christ unto salvation.
To say these works of the Holy Spirit do not matter for salvation is a big lie initiated by satan himself into the church. For John would be lying then when he said the one who does not love does not know God. The person who does not know God will not have eternal life, and love is a fruit of the Spirit. Apostle Paul and Jesus both say it is the greatest fruit, because our faith hangs on love. No love toward all others shows one does not have God's Holy Spirit abiding in them............
Deductive reasoning 101...

1. Do you believe you can lose salvation....YES
a. If one can lose salvation then salvation is based upon what one does and or does not do=works

2. Do you believe you can lose salvation...yes
a. What must be done to keep salvation if not secure in Christ=self works
b. What must be done to regain salvation if it can be lost=self works/repentance

3. The definition I gave of justified was...rendered legally innocent by the blood and faith of Crist...you rejected and argued it as a man made definition.

You quote the following men and indicated that they did not believe salvation by grace through faith which you erroneously label (easy believeism)

Notice again what they taught and acknowledge the truth before it is too late Kenneth.....

30-100 AD Clement of Rome "[We] are not justified by ourselves. Nor by our own wisdom, understanding, godliness, or works done in holiness of heart. But by that faith through which Almighty God has justified all men since the beginning." (Clement of Rome Corinthians chap. 32)

69-156 AD Polycarp
"Many desire to enter into this joy, knowing that 'by grace you are saved, not of works,' but by the will of God through Jesus Christ [Eph. 2:8]." (Polycarp Philippians chap. 1)

125 AD Barnabas "To this end the Lord delivered up His flesh to corruption, that we might be sanctified through the remission of sins, which is effected by His blood." (Barnabas Letter chap 5)

No works listed there......!
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#94
[/FONT][/COLOR]

It was written because people went back to judaism/



The Hebrew writer is not talking about "people" in general but writing to Jews that had left Judaism to become Christians warning them about falling away becoming lost by returning back to Judaism.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#95
Again with the false Catholic accusations as I do not go by any of their books or their customs.
I only go by the Word of God and His Holy Spirit to guide me, you have been so badly lead in a hate doctrine toward the Catholic church that it blinds you to some truths the bible does give that they do teach in their churches. They teach a lot of things contrary to the bible, but they do have a few truths they do teach. Your hate doctrine toward them shows brightly in your responses, and the bible clearly warns of such doctrines as well. For we are called to love all people, and not just those who are brothers and sisters in Christ.
You say some troubling things. You say that the RCC teaches a lot of things contrary to the bible which is true then you say that they teach truth as well. That is a straw man argument. Jesus said a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. How much poison will you tolerate in your drinking water?
So once again I am not lead by men as you so falsely claim on me.
As I stated before those who are Holy Spirit lead Apostles mentioned in the bible we can not discount their writings, and the Holy Spirit will not disregard His own truth as well. He can not deny Himself !!!

Show me one scripture that says the words, "Once saved always saved."
You as a few others like to use word play when it suits you, so show me one scripture in the bible that has those exact words used. You will not because it was started by a man and not mentioned in the word of God.

Jesus

And then many will fall away..................


Holy Spirit through Paul

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith
Here's the red herring. The word once saved always saved are not in the bible. Neither is the word trinity. That does not make the doctrine untrue. God does not operate in a temporal fashion like man. God inhabits eternity man inhabits the earth. When God does something it has His eternal nature attached to it. Man will live for eternity somewhere. Either with God or apart from God. When God saves someone it is for eternity.

You have fallen prey to the proof texting flaw of the apostate. Context is necessary to reveal the proof in the text. You have misrepresented the scriptures in your effort to defend yourself.

This passage is not difficult if one will simply believe God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#96
Your a liar.

You only go to go.

Yet you told us to go to sources outside of god. whihc mmeans you must go to them.

Make up your mind, You can say one thing, then do another (well maybe you can, you do it alot)

I did not tell you to go nowhere.....................


What I said is that the Holy Spirit will guide us in all truth, and just because something is not in the bible does not make it false teaching. If we are to go and throw all the writings of Holy Spirit lead Apostles away, then you might as well throw out the entire NT. Because the NT writings come form the Apostles themselves, and just because we don't have all the writings from all 12 of the original Apostles in the bible does not make them false.

It is your choice to follow the direction of the Holy Spirit, and those who are lead by Him would not deny the writings from others He lead and guided as well. Just like those who are lead and guided by the Holy Spirit can not deny to keep the Lords commands, and if they do they are guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit....

There is absolutely nothing in the bible that gives Barnabas being a false Apostle, it only shows he was a true Apostle of the Lord......
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#97
The Hebrew writer is not talking about "people" in general but writing to Jews that had left Judaism to become Christians warning them about falling away becoming lost by returning back to Judaism.

No, He is warning them if their true faith is in christ, then stay, For if you leave, you prove your true faith was in the works of the law. and never in Christ,
If you faith is in christ you would never leave, thats said all over scripture.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#98
Deductive reasoning 101...

1. Do you believe you can lose salvation....YES
a. If one can lose salvation then salvation is based upon what one does and or does not do=works

Deductive reasoning 102:

1) Do you believe one can lose salvation? NO
2) If one CANNOT lose salvation, then salvation is NOT based upon what one does or does not do/works....


....therefore one can UNconditionally do any works he desires to do, do all the sinful works he desires to do and still be saved having been given a license to sin.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#99
I did not tell you to go nowhere.....................

I guess it is time to once again prove you a liar.


What Early Church Fathers Said about Eternal Security



“And pray ye without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For ‘cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God.’” (Ignatius of Antioch, To the Ephesians, A.D.110)
“Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.” (Didache, A.D.140)
“That eternal fire has been prepared for him as he apostatized from God of his own free-will, and likewise for all who unrepentant continue in the apostasy, he now blasphemes, by means of such men, the Lord who brings judgment [upon him] as being already condemned, and imputes the guilt of his apostasy to his Maker, not to his own voluntary disposition.” (Justin Martyr, fragment in Irenaeus’ Against Heresies, 5:26:1, A.D.156)
“Christ shall not die again in behalf of those who now commit sin, for death shall no more have dominion over Him; but the Son shall come in the glory of the Father, requiring from His stewards and dispensers the money which He had entrusted to them, with usury; and from those to whom He had given most shall He demand most. We ought not, therefore, as that presbyter remarks, to be puffed up, nor be severe upon those of old time, but ought ourselves to fear, lest perchance, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from His kingdom. And therefore it was that Paul said, ‘For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also spare not thee, who, when thou wert a wild olive tree, wert grafted into the fatness of the olive tree, and wert made a partaker of its fatness.’” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:27:2 A.D. 180)
“But some think as if God were under a necessity of bestowing even on the unworthy, what He has engaged (to give); and they turn His liberality into slavery. But if it is of necessity that God grants us the symbol of death, then He does so unwillingly. But who permits a gift to be permanently retained which he has granted unwillingly? For do not many afterward fall out of (grace)? Is not this gift taken away from many?” (Tertullian, On Repentance, 6 A.D. 204)
“Therefore, the ones who are pardoned are those who slip into sin unintentionally and incautiously. He who sins willfully has no pardon.” (Lactantius, A.D. 304)
“By believing in Him you will live. But by disbelieving you will be punished.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)
“Grace with the Lord, when once learned and undertaken by us, should never afterward be cancelled by repetition of sin.” (Tertullian, A.D. 203)
“He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“We ought therefore, brethren, carefully to inquire concerning our salvation. Otherwise, the wicked one, having made his entrance by deceit, may hurl us forth from our life.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)
“Let us therefore repent with the whole heart, so that none of us perish by the way.” (Second Clement, A.D. 150)
“I hold further, that those of you who have confessed and known this man to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation [i.e. the Mosaic Law] and have denied that this man is Christ, and have not repented before death—you will by no means be saved.” (Justin Martyr, A.D. 160)
“Rather, we should fear ourselves, lest perchance, after we have come to the knowledge of Christ, if we do those things displeasing to God, we obtain not further forgiveness for sin, but are shut out of His kingdom.” (Irenaeus, A.D. 180)
“He who hopes for everlasting rest knows also that the entrance to it is toilsome and narrow. So let him who has once received the gospel not turn back.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)
“God gives forgiveness of past sins. However, as to future sins, each one procures this for himself. He does this by repenting, by condemning past deeds, and by begging the Father to blot them out.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)
“The world returned to sin…and so it is destined to fire. So is the man who after baptism renews his sins.” (Tertullian, A.D. 198)
“Rather they must be preserved. It is not the actual attainment, but the perfecting, that keeps a man for God.” (Cyprian, A.D. 250)
“A son who deserts his father in order not to pay him obedience is considered deserving of being disinherited and having his name removed forever from his family.” (Lactaintius, A.D. 304)
“He who sins after baptism, unless he forsakes his sins, will be condemned to Gehenna.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)
“These things, beloved, we write unto you, not merely to admonish you of your duty, but also to remind ourselves. For we are struggling on the same arena, and the same conflict is assigned to both of us. Wherefore let us give up vain and fruitless cares, and approach to the glorious and venerable rule of our holy calling. Let us attend to what is good, pleasing, and acceptable in the sight of Him who formed us. Let us look stedfastly to the blood of Christ, and see how precious that blood is to God, which, having been shed for our salvation, has set the grace of repentance before the whole world. Let us turn to every age that has passed, and learn that, from generation to generation, the Lord has granted a place of repentance to all such as would be converted unto Him. Noah preached repentance, and as many as listened to him were saved. Jonah proclaimed destruction to the Ninevites but they, repenting of their sins, propitiated God by prayer, and obtained salvation, although they were aliens [to the covenant] of God.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 7:33-36)
“Day and night ye were anxious for the whole brotherhood, that the number of God’s elect might be saved with mercy and a good conscience.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 2:7, 8)
Your so deep into it, you can't even see your own flaws. or when you lie.

Don't expect us to come crawling to your gospel. when you can not even admit or confess to us you were wrong, how can we expect that you actually went to God and confessed?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Deductive reasoning 102:

1) Do you believe one can lose salvation? NO
2) If one CANNOT lose salvation, then salvation is NOT based upon what one does or does not do/works....


....therefore one can UNconditionally do any works he desires to do, do all the sinful works he desires to do and still be saved having been given a license to sin.

Not true.

Because one who has true faith in God has no desire to sin, thus your red herring/straw man is refuted.

Your the one excusing your sin, as long as you do not murder commit sexual sin, your ok. you can do all the little sins you want, it is only a mistake.

News flash. all those little sins are just as evil in the eyes of a perfect God as murder and sexual sin. When you realise that MAYBE you can finally start to see Gods truth.