Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

[PeterJens]

Quote my whole quote pal or don't quote me at all.....very deceptive...proves who leads you pal

Good grief - now I am being led by someone because I do not quote a whole
quote!!!

I am being deceptive or just highlighting a point hidden in some other stuff.

I am really blown away by the astute lack of a response. We are talking heaven
and hell and eternal condemnation, but no justification. These guys do not believe
in God if this is the level of respect they are showing to everyone including the Lord.

 

[Katy-follower]

Judas was not saved to begin with???

I don't believe Judas was ever truly saved. Evidently, his loyalties were with Rome, not with Christ, and he had a love of money also.

The "son of perdition" (man of sin) was a name given to only two individuals - Judas and the future Antichrist. Anyone with that title is not a saved individual. Yeah, the Antichrist is DEFINITELY NOT saved.

(I *personally* believe this is a clue, that Antichrist will be just like Judas, because of this shared title... like "appearance" of a believer, lover of money, loyal to Rome, etc)


John 17:12: "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled" (Judas)

2 Thess 2:3: "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition" (Antichrist)

 

[Katy-follower]

If you have ever been on a wine tasting tour you know that you don't swallow the wine. You taste it, you swirl it about, and finally you spit it out. You can do that over and over and not get the intoxicating effect as if you swallowed it.

But not me, because I'm a light weight. Lol

 

[Katy-follower]

What is the first commandment?

It can and has been broken.

Can we lose our salvation technically? Think about it. Can we break the first commandment and fail to repent?

This sounds very much like a Catholic works based doctrine, that teaches a conditional salvation, that it must be maintained. The belief in eternal security is even listed as an anathema in the catholic catechism.

Jesus died ONCE. By saying a person is only saved until their next sin is basically denying Christ's sacrifice was sufficient.

Too many people are being influenced by catholic teachings that have crept their way into (infiltrated) the christian churches. I believe the infiltration is Rome's attempt to unite all under the roof of Rome, to eliminate teachings in opposition to Rome (ecumenical movement).

Scary thought that the basics of salvation are rejected and in its place roman catholic teachings are embraced!

 

[Katy-follower]

lol.. This is true.'


so why would someone who has true faith in God throw their cars in the lake. I mean, lets be honest here.. We are talking about eternity, not havign to walk home a few miles because you got mad and threw your keys away.

Haha. Or as I have said before... a blind person who can now see, but asking to return to their blindness

 

[Katy-follower]

2 Peter 2:1-22 is clear in context that it is talking about false teachers and false prophets - not believer in Christ. The question should be are they really believers?

There is also a difference between "knowing the way of righteousness" and being in Christ and possessing His righteousness. To say that 2 Peter 2 is saying believers go to hell is a violation of all the abundance of very clear scriptures that say the complete opposite of those obscure verses.

Never let an obscure verse rob us of the abundance of very clear scriptures of what Christ has done. If an obscure verse seems to contradict the clear scriptures - it means that we are not interpreting it correctly.

I agree. The bible does not contradict itself. The word eternal should be enough for believers. Eternal is eternal. Nothing conditional about that at all.

A believer would never be called a false teacher as is described in 2 Peter 2. Those with the truth preach the truth. False teachers bring in these heresies because they are in darkness. Heresies would be teachings that add to the truth, as a substitute for truth, inconsistent with the revealed truth of God. What true believer would ever add to the scriptures?!


Galatians 2:4: "...And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage)"


2 Peter 2:1-3: "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber"

 

[Katy-follower]

Personally I think the whole discussion on once saved always saved and people that lose salvation is something that is never talked about in the New Testament scriptures

I agree. Conditional salvation... losing it and maintaining it is actually a Roman Catholic teaching that has entered many of the christian churches.

As in the Galatians scripture I quoted above "....came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage"

 

[fredoheaven]

I agree. Conditional salvation... losing it and maintaining it is actually a Roman Catholic teaching that has entered many of the christian churches.

As in the Galatians scripture I quoted above "....came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage"

Nice thought!

I've been there before I became a real Christian.

God bless

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I agree. The bible does not contradict itself. The word eternal should be enough for believers. Eternal is eternal. Nothing conditional about that at all.

A believer would never be called a false teacher as is described in 2 Peter 2. Those with the truth preach the truth. False teachers bring in these heresies because they are in darkness. Heresies would be teachings that add to the truth, as a substitute for truth, inconsistent with the revealed truth of God. What true believer would ever add to the scriptures?!


Galatians 2:4: "...And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage)"


2 Peter 2:1-3: "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber"

Peter is warning believers as highlighted in red from false teachers and saying many will follow their destructive ways as they exploit you with deceptive words.

Why would Peter warn believers of this if Peter didnt see it as an importance.

 

[preacher4truth]

This OP reflects the belief that righteousness is an eternal possession, rather than GOD's imputation and righteous behavior. In other words, the belief that a person can be righteous yet do unrighteous things. But John is clear:

By this the children of God and the children of the devil are evident: everyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​

The OP never suggested such a thing.

 

[PeterJens]

The OP never suggested such a thing.

p4t - I can see what HRFTD was saying here, and I agree with him.

Now you may not agree with what he is saying, he is answering the accusation to be
made righteous in Christ and then sin does not loose your salvation, because you walk
in faith. Salvation is lost is you loose your faith, but fellowship with God is lost because
you sin and refuse to resolve it. But as with all prodigal sons, most return, because they
know their Father. When a prodigal becomes lost is always the saddest place and many
argue this is impossible, but the Lord knows.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Haha. Or as I have said before... a blind person who can now see, but asking to return to their blindness

or a person who was drowning and got saved, wanting to return to drowning.. Or a person who was burning in a fire and healed and saved, wanting to return to the fire.

or a dog who loved to eat his vomit.. Being saved so he could eat steak..and all kinds of delicious food and drink, Wanting to return to eat his own vomit..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree. Conditional salvation... losing it and maintaining it is actually a Roman Catholic teaching that has entered many of the christian churches.

As in the Galatians scripture I quoted above "....came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage"

It started with the jews,, and the pagans always believed it, and when the church was paganised, it followed them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter is warning believers as highlighted in red from false teachers and saying many will follow their destructive ways as they exploit you with deceptive words.

Why would Peter warn believers of this if Peter didnt see it as an importance.

Nice thing is it says THEIR destruction is not idle and will not slumber, Not the believers.

He warns us, because it can damage us,, and cause us to be lost in the spiritual battle that is waging,, Unusable by God.. which is where satan wants us..

Not because we may lose salvation.

 

[willybob]

Jesus explains Hebrews 6 in the parable of the wondering spirit. the ending is not good....Peter explains it in the last chapter of his last epistle, again not a good ending for those that might return to the pig pin of sin......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus explains Hebrews 6 in the parable of the wondering spirit. the ending is not good....Peter explains it in the last chapter of his last epistle, again not a good ending for those that might return to the pig pin of sin......

of course its not good.. Because they never left the pig pin of sin,, Thats why they returned to eating their vomit. Because they were NEVER made new creatures in christ by being born again, They were dogs tryign to act as new creatures, But you can only act so long before you return to what you really are..

 

[garee]

I think you guys have finally lost it.

This is not about sinners doomed to judgement and hell, but believers being
in the right religious group, on some doctrinal ideas.

But in reality we are talking about continual sinners who refuse to repent, confess
and get right with God, because God has already forgiven them, and sin is no longer
an issue, though in reality they are living in hypocracy.

If Christ has forgiven them through a work of His faith or three day labor of love then their whole sin is no longer an issue.

But those who must crucify him and expose Him to public shame as if one work was not enough every time they do sin makes the grace of God to no effect by doing despite to his work of salvation… that he works in us that we might will and do His god pleasure as a imputed righteousness.

Hoping in dead works that we could offer like the man in Mathew 7 (worker of inequity) is not one of the better things that accompanies salvation.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

 

[preacher4truth]

p4t - I can see what HRFTD

It makes sense because you always read things that are not there into what is stated. You do the same with Scripture, making prescriptive texts descriptive, and vice versa. It's neo-judaism with a weird spin - Galatians 1:8-10 like.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by FranC

Judas was not saved to begin with???

"Have I not chosen you, and one of you is a demon". What do you think?

 

[valiant]

Jesus explains Hebrews 6 in the parable of the wandering spirit. the ending is not good..

He was a man who never filled the empty void. He refused the way of Jesus,

..Peter explains it in the last chapter of his last epistle, again not a good ending for those that might return to the pig pin of sin......

They returned to THEIR OWN vomit again -- and to wallowing in the mire. They had tried Christianity outwardly but they too had rejected the real Jesus Christ from the beginning.