Hebrews 6:4-8
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Those verses were for those who return to the law as a means of salvation rather
than believing on the Lord Jesus by grace through faith, to be reconciled to God
and escape the second death, attaining to life ever after. Our trials make us stronger
and ultimately more useful in service to God. Praise the Lord for He is good!
Praise the Lord
than believing on the Lord Jesus by grace through faith, to be reconciled to God
and escape the second death, attaining to life ever after. Our trials make us stronger
and ultimately more useful in service to God. Praise the Lord for He is good!
Praise the Lord
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There is Backsliding and then there is Falling Away -------Falling Away is serious ----you cannot come back from Falling Away ------and what your describing here is you fell back to unbelief ---so in my view what your implying is Apostasy ----and you can't come back from that ------
So I wonder if you were really saved in the first place -----as the moment you receive and confess your Saving Faith in Christ you receive the Holy Spirit ---and start experiencing the peace and joy and the Blessings of God in your life -- no one would ever want to Fall Away from that ---I would think anyway --
I know for myself --I did a complete 180 degree turn in my personality and it was INSTANT upon receiving Jesus in my heart ----and I saw things different immediately ---it was like a veil was lifted from the eyes and it changed the way I saw things around me ----I experienced a peace and joy that I couldn't explain ---my family and friends saw a big change in me right away -----why would I want to give that up ----I was happy and wanted to share my experience with others ------
Only you know what took place when and how you were saved ------and if your fell away your in trouble
This is an article on the difference of Backsliding and Falling Away
You can read all I am just posting this part
https://bibletruthpublishers.com/the-difference-between-backsliding-and-apostasy/algernon-james-pollock/salvation-assured/a-j-pollock/la59572
Backsliding is failure in testimony and practical Christian living, resulting in a believer walking in a way dishonoring to the Lord. For such, sad as it is to backslide, there is a road open to restoration by true repentance and confession. We read, "I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely." (Hos. 14:4).
The Apostle Peter was a backslider indeed when he denied his Lord with oaths and cursings. Yet we all know how tenderly the Lord sought his restoration.
Apostasy on the other hand is far more serious. For that there is no road to recovery and restoration. An apostate is doomed to be bound forever in his sin, both in this world and in the next.
The Greek word for "falling away" is apostasia, from which we get our English word, apostasy. The Hebrew believers were evidently in danger of going back to Judaism, so a plain warning was given as to what that step would involve. By such an act they would renounce Christ as Savior, the Holy Spirit as sent of the Father, the New Testament as setting forth Christian doctrines. In short to return to Judaism meant open apostasy, for which there could be no pardon. Here is the plain statement of Scripture:- " FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again unto repentance; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFRESH, and put Him to an open shame." (Heb. 6:4-6). But it may be asked, Surely this description must refer to true Christians. The answer is that all these things may be the experience of those, who have been affected only outwardly in their contact with Christian circles.
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OK...
Hebrews is a much thicker book than what you would think. It was written to the Jews and references a library's worth of midrash, sifre, and talmud...
OR you can get a commentary by Westcott and Horte that will assist. Eadie helps as well.
But
In the meantime take EACH of the items listed between the conjunctions.
Have you had every last one of those things?
Do you even know what each of these things mean?
Stop jumping to the conclusion of the verse without carefully examining the requisite requirements for the outcome.
The word "and" is used....not "or". Meaning that ALL of these things listed are definite requirements.
I know what populist theology says....ignore it. Populist theology also missed the God/Man Jesus and Crucified Him....then harassed and beat and Martyred Jesus's followers.
So what I'm saying is simply admit your wrongs to Jesus...repent of them...and try again.
Hebrews is a much thicker book than what you would think. It was written to the Jews and references a library's worth of midrash, sifre, and talmud...
OR you can get a commentary by Westcott and Horte that will assist. Eadie helps as well.
But
In the meantime take EACH of the items listed between the conjunctions.
Have you had every last one of those things?
Do you even know what each of these things mean?
Stop jumping to the conclusion of the verse without carefully examining the requisite requirements for the outcome.
The word "and" is used....not "or". Meaning that ALL of these things listed are definite requirements.
I know what populist theology says....ignore it. Populist theology also missed the God/Man Jesus and Crucified Him....then harassed and beat and Martyred Jesus's followers.
So what I'm saying is simply admit your wrongs to Jesus...repent of them...and try again.
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Also DawnDe you should know that one has to be drawn by God to hear and accept His Word who is Jesus ----it is not us who pursues God ---God pursues us and opens up our hearts and mind to accept His Word which inbirths Saving Faith in us ------ we have free will to accept or reject God's draw on us to come to Him --
Just going to church and hearing the Word or opening up a Bible and reading it does not mean that you have ears to hear and eyes to see and a mind that comprehends what the Words are saying Spiritually -----
Jesus said you have ears to hear but you do not hear -----you have eyes to see but you do not see -----
God has to open your heart so your ears hear and your eyes see so you can receive the inbirthing of Saving Faith ----
Just going to church and hearing the Word or opening up a Bible and reading it does not mean that you have ears to hear and eyes to see and a mind that comprehends what the Words are saying Spiritually -----
Jesus said you have ears to hear but you do not hear -----you have eyes to see but you do not see -----
God has to open your heart so your ears hear and your eyes see so you can receive the inbirthing of Saving Faith ----
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Matthew 19:26 - But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Luke 1:37 - For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Jeremiah 32:17 - Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:
Ephesians 3:20 - Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Matthew 6:33 - But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Genesis 18:14 - Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
Isaiah 43:18-19 - Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. (Read More...)
Hebrews 11:1-3 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Read More...)
Isaiah 59:1 - Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 Corinthians 6:2 - (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Mark 9:23 - Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
John 14:1 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Philippians 4:13 - I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Luke 1:37 - For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Jeremiah 32:17 - Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:
Ephesians 3:20 - Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Matthew 6:33 - But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Genesis 18:14 - Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
Isaiah 43:18-19 - Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. (Read More...)
Hebrews 11:1-3 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (Read More...)
Isaiah 59:1 - Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 Corinthians 6:2 - (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Mark 9:23 - Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
John 14:1 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Philippians 4:13 - I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
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Hello again Dawn, if you were truly saved at 19, then your return to God involves fellowship/relationship with Him, not salvation. As King David prayed to the Lord, restore unto me the ~joy~ of Thy salvation .. Psalm 51:12, not salvation itself, because that was never lost (even though David's sins were heinous, both murder and adultery).
You may want to consider the Parable of the Sower and the four different "soils" in Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23. The following short article may be helpful with this too: What is the meaning of the Parable of the Sower? | GotQuestions.org (this article has a video with it, so you can read it and/or watch it, whichever you'd prefer .. it's just under 3 minutes long
).
Finally (as I mentioned earlier) it isn't what happened 30 years ago that truly matters, it's what is going on between you and the Lord right now that does, yes?
You also said (in post #13) "I was saved and was happy in the Lord so I don’t understand why I believed someone when they told me something which made me question things and just fall away …it’s clear at that time I did t have strong faith".
This is what you need to make sure does not happen again, yes? Rather, you want to grow closer and closer to the Lord from now on, and not be fooled into believing false teachers/false teachings when they come your way again (and they will).
All of this, growing closer to the Lord, being sanctified/growing in Christlikeness, as well as being able to quickly discern what is true and from God, and what is not, is found, first and foremost, by continually growing in your knowledge and understanding of Him via the word of God/the Bible (perhaps this was the very thing that was lacking in your life when you were 19?).
As the Lord Jesus prayed to the Father (during His high-priestly prayer for us),
God bless you!! (Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)
~Deuteronomy (David)
You may want to consider the Parable of the Sower and the four different "soils" in Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23. The following short article may be helpful with this too: What is the meaning of the Parable of the Sower? | GotQuestions.org (this article has a video with it, so you can read it and/or watch it, whichever you'd prefer .. it's just under 3 minutes long
).Finally (as I mentioned earlier) it isn't what happened 30 years ago that truly matters, it's what is going on between you and the Lord right now that does, yes?
You also said (in post #13) "I was saved and was happy in the Lord so I don’t understand why I believed someone when they told me something which made me question things and just fall away …it’s clear at that time I did t have strong faith".
This is what you need to make sure does not happen again, yes? Rather, you want to grow closer and closer to the Lord from now on, and not be fooled into believing false teachers/false teachings when they come your way again (and they will).
All of this, growing closer to the Lord, being sanctified/growing in Christlikeness, as well as being able to quickly discern what is true and from God, and what is not, is found, first and foremost, by continually growing in your knowledge and understanding of Him via the word of God/the Bible (perhaps this was the very thing that was lacking in your life when you were 19?).
As the Lord Jesus prayed to the Father (during His high-priestly prayer for us),
John 17
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
God bless you!! (Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)
~Deuteronomy (David)
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4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
I understand it differently.
Certainly there are many warnings about partaking of sin once one is born again.
This section talks about how it is impossible to be born again after being born again. It is impossible to renew such a person in the manner in which they were brought into salvation. Now that they are a child of God they will face correction, punishment, or even excommunication with the intent to produce godly sorrow so that they might confess their sins and turn from their ways.
Furthermore, no man may crucify the Lord for themselves. It is impossible. And no man may bring shame upon the Lord. That is also impossible. The believer caught in sin, if he repents, is not AGAIN born of the spirit. But because he is of the house of God he will face the correction that God brings to him; first through the saints and lastly through His own hand. It is always best to heed the word of correction spoken by the elders than to have the Lord intervene directly.
I understand it differently.
Certainly there are many warnings about partaking of sin once one is born again.
This section talks about how it is impossible to be born again after being born again. It is impossible to renew such a person in the manner in which they were brought into salvation. Now that they are a child of God they will face correction, punishment, or even excommunication with the intent to produce godly sorrow so that they might confess their sins and turn from their ways.
Furthermore, no man may crucify the Lord for themselves. It is impossible. And no man may bring shame upon the Lord. That is also impossible. The believer caught in sin, if he repents, is not AGAIN born of the spirit. But because he is of the house of God he will face the correction that God brings to him; first through the saints and lastly through His own hand. It is always best to heed the word of correction spoken by the elders than to have the Lord intervene directly.
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Thank you for your reply .
thank you for that explanation ✝️
Hello again Dawn, if you were truly saved at 19, then your return to God involves fellowship/relationship with Him, not salvation. As King David prayed to the Lord, restore unto me the ~joy~ of Thy salvation .. Psalm 51:12, not salvation itself, because that was never lost (even though David's sins were heinous, both murder and adultery).
You may want to consider the Parable of the Sower and the four different "soils" in Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23. The following short article may be helpful with this too: What is the meaning of the Parable of the Sower? | GotQuestions.org (this article has a video with it, so you can read it and/or watch it, whichever you'd prefer .. it's just under 3 minutes long).
Finally (as I mentioned earlier) it isn't what happened 30 years ago that truly matters, it's what is going on between you and the Lord right now that does, yes?
You also said (in post #13) "I was saved and was happy in the Lord so I don’t understand why I believed someone when they told me something which made me question things and just fall away …it’s clear at that time I did t have strong faith".
This is what you need to make sure does not happen again, yes? Rather, you want to grow closer and closer to the Lord from now on, and not be fooled into believing false teachers/false teachings when they come your way again (and they will).
All of this, growing closer to the Lord, being sanctified/growing in Christlikeness, as well as being able to quickly discern what is true and from God, and what is not, is found, first and foremost, by continually growing in your knowledge and understanding of Him via the word of God/the Bible (perhaps this was the very thing that was lacking in your life when you were 19?).
As the Lord Jesus prayed to the Father (during His high-priestly prayer for us),
God bless you!! (Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)
~Deuteronomy (David)
You may want to consider the Parable of the Sower and the four different "soils" in Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23. The following short article may be helpful with this too: What is the meaning of the Parable of the Sower? | GotQuestions.org (this article has a video with it, so you can read it and/or watch it, whichever you'd prefer .. it's just under 3 minutes long
).Finally (as I mentioned earlier) it isn't what happened 30 years ago that truly matters, it's what is going on between you and the Lord right now that does, yes?
You also said (in post #13) "I was saved and was happy in the Lord so I don’t understand why I believed someone when they told me something which made me question things and just fall away …it’s clear at that time I did t have strong faith".
This is what you need to make sure does not happen again, yes? Rather, you want to grow closer and closer to the Lord from now on, and not be fooled into believing false teachers/false teachings when they come your way again (and they will).
All of this, growing closer to the Lord, being sanctified/growing in Christlikeness, as well as being able to quickly discern what is true and from God, and what is not, is found, first and foremost, by continually growing in your knowledge and understanding of Him via the word of God/the Bible (perhaps this was the very thing that was lacking in your life when you were 19?).
As the Lord Jesus prayed to the Father (during His high-priestly prayer for us),
John 17
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
God bless you!! (Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)
~Deuteronomy (David)
Hello DawnDe, first off, welcome to CChat! I'm glad that you found us and joined in the discussions with us
Second, no worries, as there is an answer to the dilemma that you believe you've found yourself in
BTW, have you spoken to your pastor about this yet If not, why not call him or email him (or even talk to him after services this Sunday) and let him know about your concerns. He is, after all, the Lord's undershepherd, assigned to watch over you/your soul on this side of the grave (an assignment that he will, in fact, be held accountable for by the Lord) .. e.g. Hebrews 13:17.
Also, pastors not only love being helpful and answering their congregant's questions, they are, typically, very good at counsel (and telling your pastor what is going on with you/what you are worried about will help him know how to pray for you too).
That said, I don't believe that sins become unforgiveable because the Lord refuses to forgive a truly penitent sinner (even a Christian who is returning to the faith from a backslidden life), but because certain sins so callous the heart that the sinner is never willing to repent of them again.
This, I also believe, is what is being referred to in Hebrews 6 and 10. These passages were written about 1st Century Jewish ~almost~ believers, men and women who attended church and partook in all that it had to offer them, folks who KNEW, W/O A DOUBT, exactly who the Lord Jesus was, but who, in the end, rejected Him anyway and returned to Judaism. For them, as it says in Hebrews 10:26-27, there no longer remained a sacrifice for their sins, only a terrifying expectation of judgement, because they had fully and knowingly rejected the only Means that they, or any of us have, of being saved.
On the other hand, you didn't leave the faith/reject the Lord Jesus like the folks in Hebrews 6 & 10 did, knowing that both He and the faith were true. Rather, you left due to unbelief instead (which is quite a different thing I think).
To be honest, I did the same thing. I was baptized as an infant and was raised in the church, and I loved it (for the most part anyway). I went to Sunday School from pre-school to 7th grade, sung in the children's choir, went on retreats, was confirmed (at age 12, I think), and then I attended church regularly through high school (you know, the whole 9 yards).
Then, not long after I got to college, I all but walked away from the church completely, into a very fun, but very sinful life/lifestyle! The thing is, I always "thought" that I was a Christian, even after walking away from the church and into sin for 10-12 long years, until the day that I actually became one (a Christian/true believer, that is), two months after my 30th birthday
That's when ~EVERYTHING~ changed for me .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:17
What I came to realize is that I wasn't a Christian who had backslidden, rather, I was just a CINO for all of those years, a "Christian In Name Only". So, I didn't actually return to the faith, because I don't believe that I was ever really a part of it/was never saved to begin with (even though I "thought" that I was).
The big thing is, I am now (a Christian, that is), and I have been one for more than 37 years, PTL. And I believe that this should be YOUR "big thing" too, that you are a Christian NOW (if that is indeed, the case).
Finally, we are admonished/commanded in 2 Corinthians 13:5 to make sure that we are truly in the faith, truly "in Christ". If you don't know the various ways to obey that command, just ask us, and I/we will be happy to help you.
God bless you!!
--David
p.s. - how sin affects us now, as believers, is typically different than it did when we were still outside of Christ. This is one of the things that helps have assurance that we really are who we claim and believe ourselves to be (Christians). As theologian and pastor, A. W. Pink put it,
Second, no worries, as there is an answer to the dilemma that you believe you've found yourself in
BTW, have you spoken to your pastor about this yet
If not, why not call him or email him (or even talk to him after services this Sunday) and let him know about your concerns. He is, after all, the Lord's undershepherd, assigned to watch over you/your soul on this side of the grave (an assignment that he will, in fact, be held accountable for by the Lord) .. e.g. Hebrews 13:17.Also, pastors not only love being helpful and answering their congregant's questions, they are, typically, very good at counsel (and telling your pastor what is going on with you/what you are worried about will help him know how to pray for you too).
That said, I don't believe that sins become unforgiveable because the Lord refuses to forgive a truly penitent sinner (even a Christian who is returning to the faith from a backslidden life), but because certain sins so callous the heart that the sinner is never willing to repent of them again.
This, I also believe, is what is being referred to in Hebrews 6 and 10. These passages were written about 1st Century Jewish ~almost~ believers, men and women who attended church and partook in all that it had to offer them, folks who KNEW, W/O A DOUBT, exactly who the Lord Jesus was, but who, in the end, rejected Him anyway and returned to Judaism. For them, as it says in Hebrews 10:26-27, there no longer remained a sacrifice for their sins, only a terrifying expectation of judgement, because they had fully and knowingly rejected the only Means that they, or any of us have, of being saved.
On the other hand, you didn't leave the faith/reject the Lord Jesus like the folks in Hebrews 6 & 10 did, knowing that both He and the faith were true. Rather, you left due to unbelief instead (which is quite a different thing I think).
To be honest, I did the same thing. I was baptized as an infant and was raised in the church, and I loved it (for the most part anyway). I went to Sunday School from pre-school to 7th grade, sung in the children's choir, went on retreats, was confirmed (at age 12, I think), and then I attended church regularly through high school (you know, the whole 9 yards).
Then, not long after I got to college, I all but walked away from the church completely, into a very fun, but very sinful life/lifestyle! The thing is, I always "thought" that I was a Christian, even after walking away from the church and into sin for 10-12 long years, until the day that I actually became one (a Christian/true believer, that is), two months after my 30th birthday
That's when ~EVERYTHING~ changed for me .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:17
What I came to realize is that I wasn't a Christian who had backslidden, rather, I was just a CINO for all of those years, a "Christian In Name Only". So, I didn't actually return to the faith, because I don't believe that I was ever really a part of it/was never saved to begin with (even though I "thought" that I was).
The big thing is, I am now (a Christian, that is), and I have been one for more than 37 years, PTL. And I believe that this should be YOUR "big thing" too, that you are a Christian NOW (if that is indeed, the case).
Finally, we are admonished/commanded in 2 Corinthians 13:5 to make sure that we are truly in the faith, truly "in Christ". If you don't know the various ways to obey that command, just ask us, and I/we will be happy to help you.
God bless you!!
--David
p.s. - how sin affects us now, as believers, is typically different than it did when we were still outside of Christ. This is one of the things that helps have assurance that we really are who we claim and believe ourselves to be (Christians). As theologian and pastor, A. W. Pink put it,
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Sure, ask away
I have heard several people, from John Piper, to Kenneth Hagin and a few others that it’s describing someone with much knowledge and experience but then I’ve heard others describe it that it’s for anyone who falls away even a baby Christian.
