HELL

[garee]

And you don't think that the same God who created the sun and billions of suns, cannot create a place of everlasting fire?

I attended a church similar to yours. It is one of the doctrines that I re-investigated after years of doubt.

Its not so much could he but did he? On the last day the sun and the moon,the time keepers will no longer exist.

I do not see a purpose according to his character, as I see it, He has mercy on whosoever he has mercy. It is he who does soften our hearts. I do not see a merciful God having a cruel and revengeful spirit because he decided not to have mercy on some..As regards the penalty of disobeying the laws as commandments... where we would find any statement which can be mistaken for endless punishment?

For instance God says, "In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die;" this is not the same as saying "Thou shalt after the death of the body that returns to its source dust, is subjected to the torments of an endless hell."

Scripture means what it says garee.

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The word tormented is used 8 times, it is to treat ill, oppress, It is in reference to men who are alive. Just as in the example of Jonas who was not dead but was used to typify the sufferings of Christ the Holy Spirit of God who cannot die. It was a living sacrifice .It would be impossible for Christ to pour out His Spirit if he had no Spirit life. Dead is dead with no ability to do the work of suffering.

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Both the example of Jonas and Christ cried by reason of their affliction in a living body unto the LORD, and he heard them and answered them while still living.

No such thing as a dead sacrifice.

Luke 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

The heart of the earth are the afflictions of this world that scripture calls hell.

Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voiceJon 2:1

These are all the evils of which Cain also makes mention, in view of them he exclaims, "My punishment is greater than I can bear."

 

[StanJ]

I think that is different then everlasting suffering.

Everlasting punishment means a person is dead and will never rise to new spirit life .

The same with everlasting fire, fire simply means judgement . Not literal fire that needs fuel .

I don't really get how you reconcile this because everlasting life means life forever but you think that everlasting suffering means you don't suffer forever?

 

[Magenta]

I don't really get how you reconcile this because everlasting life means life forever but you think that everlasting suffering means you don't suffer forever?

0 Bible results for “everlasting suffering.”

Sorry, we didn’t find any results for your search.

I checked about six different translations.

 

[samuel23]

Hi Magenta, You certainly agree with much of JW doctrine, I used to know several JWs and we were friends and talked about the bible a lot.

 

[garee]

The above is not figurative language.

Because the kingdom of God is not of this temporal world and we walk by faith the unseen eternal. We should first and foremost look for the spiritual understanding hid from the lost, natural unconverted men .

Without parables (comparisons) Christ the Word of God spoke not. The scriptures inform us as new creatures we have a responsibility to rightly divide the word of God. I think that division is between the things seen, and those not. The faith principle. For who hopes for that which we already have, we have a living hope that will not disappoint us.. We seek after a city not seen, by faith the unseen eternal.

2Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

A example of one of the parables is when Abraham offered up his son, a parable of that not seen, the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world... resting on the 7[SUP]th.[/SUP] The rest we do have by faith.

The devil and his angels and all whose names are not found written in the book of life will suffer that same fate as stated above.

The devil and His angels(lying spirits) are not subject to salvation. The beast and false prophets are deceived men.

By the way, one would have to be existing in order to experience no rest, no intermission, no cessation, of said torment.

Like that of Cain marked (the mark of the beast) as the restless wander?

It does not appear he entered the rest we have in Christ as did Able. His punishment was more than he could bear. Christ bore the punishment of Abel by having mercy as unmerited favor (grace) .

When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Gen 4:12

Christ did not say; wait, a just minute wait until you die it will be greater. The dead know nothing, the memory they did have has perished when their spirit and body died. How would they know what they were suffering for if they have no memory of life?.

 

[garee]

I don't really get how you reconcile this because everlasting life means life forever but you think that everlasting suffering means you don't suffer forever?

I think the suffering in respect to the word hell, has to do with a person having life . Living sacrifice.

It is shown with Christ as well as with the parable Jonas. The sufferings were unto death, not dead . The dead know nothing which I think the idea that they are suffering would mean they know something..The dead cannot reason or feel pain.

Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.Jon 2:1

Unto death not dead but a living sacrifice that give spirit life as the kind of spirit that will rise to new life.

Mark 14:34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

Just as our father heard the living request (the dead cannot pray) of Jonas and strengthened his soul the same applies to Christ.

Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

The phrase heart of the earth is reconciled as the belly of the big fish, called hell.

Luk 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

 

[StanJ]

0 Bible results for “everlasting suffering.”
Sorry, we didn’t find any results for your search.
I checked about six different translations.

I wasn't addressing you in this post I was addressing another member. Why don't you address the posts I do direct at to you, or is it because you don't have any answers?
Do you not understand concepts, or do you only go by words? Words which of course will change in every translation to one degree or another?
Who is we?

 

[StanJ]

I think the suffering in respect to the word hell, has to do with a person having life . Living sacrifice.

It is shown with Christ as well as with the parable Jonas. The sufferings were unto death, not dead . The dead know nothing which I think the idea that they are suffering would mean they know something..The dead cannot reason or feel pain.

Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.Jon 2:1

Unto death not dead but a living sacrifice that give spirit life as the kind of spirit that will rise to new life.

Mark 14:34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

Just as our father heard the living request (the dead cannot pray) of Jonas and strengthened his soul the same applies to Christ.

Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

The phrase heart of the earth is reconciled as the belly of the big fish, called hell.

Luk 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

Not what I asked, and all you're doing here is quoting verses that have to do with physical death which is not the end of the spirit as Jesus clearly pointed out in Luke 16 or have you not bothered to read that?

 

[StanJ]

Because the kingdom of God is not of this temporal world

That is totally inaccurate because the kingdom of God is in this world. I just found 72 times in the New Testament and refers to God's rule on Earth among his believers.

 

[JesusRules1]

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Trailblazer]

0 Bible results for “everlasting suffering.”

Sorry, we didn’t find any results for your search.

I checked about six different translations.

I wasn't addressing you in this post I was addressing another member. Why don't you address the posts I do direct at to you, or is it because you don't have any answers?
Do you not understand concepts, or do you only go by words? Words which of course will change in every translation to one degree or another?
Who is we?

Even so! Seems to me that Magenta's response was very kind and fair. On a side note!... Looking at someones Rep power may give a good indication of the quality of answers and information a member gives on this site.
Magenta Rep power at 226.

 

[StanJ]

Even so! Seems to me that Magenta's response was very kind and fair. On a side note!... Looking at someones Rep power may give a good indication of the quality of answers and information a member gives on this site.
Magenta Rep power at 226.

Her post was irrelevant and self-serving.
I don't think you fully understand how reputation is garnered on this site but suffice it to say I'm not here to get reputation.

 

[Trailblazer]

Her post was irrelevant and self-serving.
I don't think you fully understand how reputation is garnered on this site but suffice it to say I'm not here to get reputation.

When someone takes the time to look something up. Even looking up mutable translations for the answers for someone else.I personally do not find that irrelevant and self serving.

I do not think we can get reputation points on our own. They would seem to come from other CC members who may like the answers and responses that are given.

For the few Rep points that I have received, they were most likely given in doing a favor for me by a few giving members here. For I probably know less scripture then most on this site.

With the little scripture that I do know. I might ask you?
Who other then Jesus knows a persons heart?.... For you say that Magenta's post are self serving.

 

[StanJ]

When someone takes the time to look something up. Even looking up mutable translations for the answers for someone else.I personally do not find that irrelevant and self serving.

I do not think we can get reputation points on our own. They would seem to come from other CC members who may like the answers and responses that are given.

For the few Rep points that I have received, they were most likely given in doing a favor for me by a few giving members here. For I probably know less scripture then most on this site.

With the little scripture that I do know. I might ask you?
Who other then Jesus knows a persons heart?.... For you say that Magenta's post are self serving.

I'm afraid you're awfully naive about what goes on in a Forum or how these things work. In any event the reply wasn't to her it was to somebody else and she interjected when she should not have. I am definitely not going to continue discussing another person's post on a thread that is meant to be discussing hell. Feel free to contribute to the subject matter but critiquing my posting style is not the issue here and you're not a moderator.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm afraid you're awfully naive about what goes on in a Forum or how these things work. In any event the reply wasn't to her it was to somebody else and she interjected when she should not have. I am definitely not going to continue discussing another person's post on a thread that is meant to be discussing hell. Feel free to contribute to the subject matter but critiquing my posting style is not the issue here and you're not a moderator.

Funny!...I know a bit of what goes on in this forum. I have read the injured party's post about what goes on in the Bible Discussion Forum. Personal Attacks, Hatred, Name calling, Members afraid to even get on this particular forum due to all of the hate here.
Members even leaving Christian chat due to the severe personal attacks against them on this particular forum.

For some, it would seem this forum is pure Hell. Wonderful way to get Gods word out.
With all of the Biblical knowledge in this forum. So many seem to forget. Jesus said. Without love, You have nothing.
Seems there may be a lot of pruning going on here, Maybe not a whole lot of fruit bearing in Jesus eyes.

 

[StanJ]

Funny!...I know a bit of what goes on in this forum. I have read the injured party's post about what goes on in the Bible Discussion Forum. Personal Attacks, Hatred, Name calling, Members afraid to even get on this particular forum due to all of the hate here.
Members even leaving Christian chat due to the severe personal attacks against them on this particular forum.

For some, it would seem this forum is pure Hell. Wonderful way to get Gods word out.
With all of the Biblical knowledge in this forum. So many seem to forget. Jesus said. Without love, You have nothing.
Seems there may be a lot of pruning going on here, Maybe not a whole lot of fruit bearing in Jesus eyes.

Is there a gossip thread I don't know about? Actually don't tell me, I don't bother with gossip.
If you're worried about personal attacks on this forum then I suggest you send a PM to the admin and voice your concerns or Report the posts that you think go against the rules.
I doubt very much people are leaving because of personal attacks on this forum but if they are then I would suggest they have very thin skin and shouldn't have been on this forum in the first place. I have seen a few kicked off for inappropriate behavior which is good but I haven't seen any people banned because of comments they make in this forum to defend their POV. There is an ignore feature in case you weren't aware.
You are very naive to think that this forum's main raison d'etre is to be used to reach out to unsaved people.
Christians are attracted here by the Chat aspect or the Forum aspect and expect to deal with other Christians. Nobody expects perfection and if they do they are as naive as you are.
Now if you're finished with your self-righteous rant, maybe we can move along?

 

[samuel23]

Hi Trailblazer: I have been in a lot of forums and you always have some folks who are rather short and then sometimes you have folks that are rude. This particular forum is about medium. A little advise if you care to accept it, be careful about getting into personal fights between other individuals, there is usually a lot more to the story then what appears. As an example, I was watching where someone filmed this bully beat a man and when a girl tried to intervene he beat her to, and then stomped and another man who had watched the whole thing walked up and punched the bully out. Anyway, a woman who only saw the bully get punched out got the wrong idea and begin to scream at the man who hit him...moral of the story, there is often more to the story.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is there a gossip thread I don't know about? Actually don't tell me, I don't bother with gossip.
If you're worried about personal attacks on this forum then I suggest you send a PM to the admin and voice your concerns or Report the posts that you think go against the rules.
I doubt very much people are leaving because of personal attacks on this forum but if they are then I would suggest they have very thin skin and shouldn't have been on this forum in the first place. I have seen a few kicked off for inappropriate behavior which is good but I haven't seen any people banned because of comments they make in this forum to defend their POV. There is an ignore feature in case you weren't aware.
You are very naive to think that this forum's main raison d'etre is to be used to reach out to unsaved people.
Christians are attracted here by the Chat aspect or the Forum aspect and expect to deal with other Christians. Nobody expects perfection and if they do they are as naive as you are.
Now if you're finished with your self-righteous rant, maybe we can move along?

There is no rant on my part. Worried about personal attacks on this forum? Not at all. Report to the Admin of how some Christians here do such a wonderful job of walking in the Sinful nature of the Flesh, just as the World does? What for?
For Jesus said! You fight and quarrel among yourselves because you seek, and have not.

Thank you very much for claiming that I am self righteous For I am not. I speak of a few things that Jesus spoke about.
You attack me for this. This I am thankful for. For this is what we are to expect from people who are of the World.
Jesus said. The world will hate you, because they hated me first. Anyone can check off the box that they are Christian. Then do and act just as the world does.

You say thin skinned people should not be in this Christian forum? Really? For your worlds must be that only the strongest will survive and inhabit the world. In America anyway.The law of the land is not to attack or abuse women. What moral standard do you live by? Islamic?

I am not here to engage in worldly talk driven by the sinful nature of the flesh with you. For Jesus said!... Live by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the sinful nature of the flesh.I will now move on to be about my fathers business who is in heaven, and not of things of this world. .

 

[Trailblazer]

Hi Trailblazer: I have been in a lot of forums and you always have some folks who are rather short and then sometimes you have folks that are rude. This particular forum is about medium. A little advise if you care to accept it, be careful about getting into personal fights between other individuals, there is usually a lot more to the story then what appears. As an example, I was watching where someone filmed this bully beat a man and when a girl tried to intervene he beat her to, and then stomped and another man who had watched the whole thing walked up and punched the bully out. Anyway, a woman who only saw the bully get punched out got the wrong idea and begin to scream at the man who hit him...moral of the story, there is often more to the story.

No personal fight here on my part. I would rather watch dust collect on the walls before I engaged in that.

 

[abcdef]

Friends,

The Holy Spirit is Love.

God is love.

We MUST be love.

We as Christians, can be no other, we know who the other is.

----

Open your eyes.

Not long from now, in just a very short time, we will be standing before the throne of the Creator, God Almighty, All powerful, All knowing, All seeing, nothing is hidden from Him,

No man can see His face and live Ex 33:20.

Every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall confess, that Jesus is God.

He will shake the heavens and the earth once more Heb 12:27, what a shaking that will be, that ends the life of the heavens and the earth!

--

Then we will stand before the throne of the one who created our souls, all souls.

Each one of us will take His turn standing before Jesus, the angels and every one who ever lived.

One at a time,

No physical body to hide behind now,

Every part of our mind and soul exposed to the One who sits on the throne, nothing can be hidden, He has eyes of fire.

Every thought, word, motive of the heart,

Every secret thought, hidden longing,

Every poison of hate that filled our desire,

Every thing we were, are, or hoped, imagined, that we would be,

Our soul, our life, our mind, naked before God, Jesus, and all souls and spirits.

--

Then we shall all see into your heart and mine.

--

Will Jesus say, "Good and faithful servant? You have given all, given your life."

Or will He say, "Depart from me! You spoiled brat! I gave my life for you and you gave me nothing"!

Lord Jesus, please have mercy on the souls of men, for Mercy is your name.

--

Don't you think that we shall give an answer for our words, and behavior to Jesus Lord God?

Knowing this, what kind of people should we be?

What are the words that we should say or write?

--

And, did you think, that there might be a small child, who is reading these things, to see what kind of people Christians are?

Some posts, should not be shown to children, I think.