Help a Catholic understand Protestantism better please

[FranC]

I'm sorry UG.

Not everything we argue about is dumb...
Some stuff is.

 

[UnderGrace]

I really do not understand how an intelligent woman like yourself could defend the Catholic Church.

I find it baffling. Take a good like look at the Vatican, how does that in any way resemble the time of the apostles?

I have very fond memories of too of times in the RC church, however, that does not mean I was looking at it from a biblical perspective.

I tried to stay in the Catholic church for many years even after I was a born again believer, it is impossible to read the bible and stay in the Catholic church, that is what I came to realize. No wonder they tucked it away for so many years.

You certainly cannot do it the way some here try to.
it turns the person totally to the off position.

And you call Catholicism pagan. That's terrible! We may not agree with their doctrine, that does not make that Church pagan.

Let's see if I can go through your question since you seem serious.

If Jesus was God, and the first Church was called The Way (Acts) and then called Catholic (in Antioch) meaning Universal since it was the only Church and was being spread thought the known "universe" (world) could we not safely assume that this universal or Catholic Church believed in GOD? Was Jesus God or not??

We really should learn about apostolic succession. We may not agree with it, but it's A HISTORICAL fact. It cannot be denied.
It makes us look DUMB to deny it.

Mary came on the scene later and was not really a part of the beginnings of the Church. By this I Always mean PRIOR to Constantine declarin it the State Religion. This is when all the trouble began. It was very pure before that.

So they wanted to Honor Mary. They still Honor her much more than we do and maybe tooo much. So? It's the mother of our Lord. He loved her as His mother. They go over board, I agree, so are we to say they're not Christian?

Christian means one believes in CHRIST. Cathlics believe in Christ.
I was at a bible study of theirs just a few weeks ago and Galatians 2:16 was brought up by the Deacon to explain to some older folk that it's not our WORKS that save us but our belief in God. The older folk are having a bit of a problem understanding this because it was never taught before. However, salvation was still theirs if they loved Jesus because it's Jesus that saves, not some doctrine.

Priests KNOW that it's not enough to be "good". They know we have to have a relationship with Jesus. They know God is love.
There is not enough teaching in the Catholic Church. This is a problem.

If you want to witness to someone Catholic, just tell them about Jesus and the plan of salvation. No need to put down the Church they were raised in. And if they STAY in the Church? There's a prominant Protestant, can't think of his name right now,
that became Orthodox about two months ago. Should we ssend him to hell too? We're all brothers in Christ, and we should treat each other as such.

As far as the Pope goes, this could use its own thread. In a way, it's not wrong. He keeps the religion together. Look at us...
33,000 churches, incl the non-denominationals. It's becoming rediculous.

Catholics do not worship IDOLS. Please let's stop saying this.

There are some here who have had bad experiences in that Church and cannot forget them.

Jesus said to forgive each other and our enemies.
We should be doing this.

No Church is perfect...

 

[FranC]

I agree with a lot of your points.

I don't hate Catholics, I just think the religion is based off stupid man-made things and the more I look at it, the more I'm seeing the anti-Christ religion / seat of the beast.

As for apostolic succession, I've seen arguments about this before. It's like saying someone who lived 200 years after Lord Jesus had the authority to introduce man-made things in to the church and that's what we see happen today. If they were saying things like "follow this scripture which is in the bible, it's true and always will be, my teachers were the followers of the apostles" then I'd agree with them, but the fact that they keep changing scripture and introducing stupid things just puts me off. The people who lived generations after the apostles are not infallible, only God is.

God never said Peter would go to Rome and set up the religion of man. You'd agree we are all stones being built together as part of God's church, it has nothing to do with walled city of idols, gold and strange priests who are known for molesting children.

There are things wrong with that Church. There are only TWO doctrine I cannot agree with:
The assumption of Mary
And her perpetual virginity.

There ARE biblical reasons for the other doctrine, even though I may not agree with them.

I mean, don't WE listen to men?
Some here believe Calvin is God and listen to evey single word he said !
What's the difference ?

I do believe the anti-Christ will be coming out of Mecca but I don't know enough
about eschatology to speak to it.

Have you studied that religion?
Is this what you base your ideas on?

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes I have studied their theology intensively, I also went to a Catholic high school.

Believe me there are many priests that do not like protestants, I met some in University too!

There is hate on both sides.

What does it mean to be a former Catholic?
Did you study the theology?
Why do they baptize babies?

Priests don't hate Protestants.
They feel Luther made a big mistake and in a way he did.
Can't get into that now.

I mean, the CC needed to be cleaned out, there was so much corruption.
But look what we got...
A mess.

Here we are arguing about the dumbest things when we should be loving each other.

 

[UnderGrace]

Jumping in to your reply, but I do agree that Calvinism as a doctrine is very very flawed.

But you need to realize that Truth is not any church it is only in Jesus and the scriptures.

I belong to a home church and really that is all church should be. I do not agree with buildings and extensive hierarchy etc., etc.,

There are things wrong with that Church. There are only TWO doctrine I cannot agree with:
The assumption of Mary
And her perpetual virginity.

There ARE biblical reasons for the other doctrine, even though I may not agree with them.

I mean, don't WE listen to men?
Some here believe Calvin is God and listen to evey single word he said !
What's the difference ?

I do believe the anti-Christ will be coming out of Mecca but I don't know enough
about eschatology to speak to it.

Have you studied that religion?
Is this what you base your ideas on?

 

[WimpyPete]

Magenta, please just pray for me. I desire to follow the truth. I believe that I am following the truth, but if I am not I would love to be made aware of my errors and to have the real way of truth revealed to me. You however can't reveal to me my "errors" because you don't understand what I actually believe, and won't listen when I try to explain. So perhaps rather than spending more time writing to try to teach me, you could just pray for me instead. (That is if you believe in praying for others. Maybe you will tell me you can't since Christ is the "one Mediator". Of course in the same 2nd chapter of Timothy where Paul says that, he also asks us to intercede for all. So maybe you and the saints can all pray for me after all. But if you can't, I understand.)

I would say this in regards to evangelization in general. Don't we all believe that we are made for the truth? That God designed us for Himself and that our hearts are restless until they rest in Him, as Augustine says. If the Truth is Christ, and Christ is the soul's Bridegroom and the Ultimate Good, then the Truth is something beautiful and inviting. It is the source of true joy. It seems like evangelization should be an invitation to hope then; a presentation of the "Good News", and giving "reasons for hope" in it. It seems like we would profit more from tring to explain to others the beauty of our position and then inviting them to experience it, rather than taking a combatitive attitude.

I'm not saying I am a perfect example of this, but I do at least want to hold it up as an ideal to strive for, and repent when I fail to live up to it. I know we keep trying to say that we are being charitable simply by presenting the truth, but St. Paul adds the qualifier, he doesn't just say it is loving to speak the truth, but exhorts us to "speak the truth in love" (Eph 4:15)

Of course I expect only retaliation in response so go ahead and bring it on. I am about done here though, there's not enough time to present Catholicism as it deserves to be in its fullness. I don't think many even care about that. But if you ever did want to get us right, just read one book by Scott Hahn or Pope Benedict XVI and you will see that the Biblical and Christocentric faith that they present is not even a distant relative of the supposed Catholicism which has been attacked in this post

 

[UnderGrace]

Why does the priest need to do this?

Are you going to tell me as well the RC has changed its doctrine on transubstantiation?

Hi WP

Everything you've said is right on.

Many protestants believe that Catholics re-sacrifice Jesus at every Mass.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a memorial. As if we were standing at the foot of the cross.
jesus' sacrifice goes on and is valid for all of time.

HE was on the cross only ONE time but the sacrifice if forever.

I spoke to a priest I know only Yesterday and he confirmed that he does NOT sacrifice Christ again in the Consecration.
He is only offering THE sacrifice. ONE TIME ONLY SACRIFICE.

A type, as it were. He is offering the perfect sacrifice of Christ. He even brought up Hebrews.

Any priest will confirm this for anyone interested.
I confirm all my Catholic doctrine (if I'm not sure of it) with the CCC and also with a priest, of which I know 3 or 4 personally and have access to at any time. Make that 3. One is really difficult to reach !!

Just wanted to confirm everything you said.

 

[Jackson123]

There are things wrong with that Church. There are only TWO doctrine I cannot agree with:
The assumption of Mary
And her perpetual virginity.

There ARE biblical reasons for the other doctrine, even though I may not agree with them.

I mean, don't WE listen to men?
Some here believe Calvin is God and listen to evey single word he said !
What's the difference ?

I do believe the anti-Christ will be coming out of Mecca but I don't know enough
about eschatology to speak to it.

Have you studied that religion?
Is this what you base your ideas on?

If you believe antichrist come out from Mecca than you do not believe the Bible, you accuse Bible lie

I can't believe Christian say bible lie

Antichrist went out from us/Christian, not Islam

1 john 2
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us

 

[UnderGrace]

It is very sad indeed, the level of blind trust towards those in supposed authority.

We must contend for the truth especially when a church is so far far removed from the simple Gospel.

What you stated in your earlier post is all true about the RC dogma.

I know.... because, I saw it, I heard it and I lived it for thirty years.

Translated means: "I appreciate that you accept my lies as truth." So sad

 

[stonesoffire]

I agree with Fran on the antichrist coming from Islam. They are looking for their Madhi...

We tend to forget the church began in Judaism, and Islam has always been their enemy. And the worlds.

Just an announcement...carry on with the program. lol

 

[Jackson123]

I agree with Fran on the antichrist coming from Islam. They are looking for their Madhi...

We tend to forget the church began in Judaism, and Islam has always been their enemy. And the worlds.

Just an announcement...carry on with the program. lol

than you believe Quran and not bible

 

[FranC]

Magenta, please just pray for me. I desire to follow the truth. I believe that I am following the truth, but if I am not I would love to be made aware of my errors and to have the real way of truth revealed to me. You however can't reveal to me my "errors" because you don't understand what I actually believe, and won't listen when I try to explain. So perhaps rather than spending more time writing to try to teach me, you could just pray for me instead. (That is if you believe in praying for others. Maybe you will tell me you can't since Christ is the "one Mediator". Of course in the same 2nd chapter of Timothy where Paul says that, he also asks us to intercede for all. So maybe you and the saints can all pray for me after all. But if you can't, I understand.)

I would say this in regards to evangelization in general. Don't we all believe that we are made for the truth? That God designed us for Himself and that our hearts are restless until they rest in Him, as Augustine says. If the Truth is Christ, and Christ is the soul's Bridegroom and the Ultimate Good, then the Truth is something beautiful and inviting. It is the source of true joy. It seems like evangelization should be an invitation to hope then; a presentation of the "Good News", and giving "reasons for hope" in it. It seems like we would profit more from tring to explain to others the beauty of our position and then inviting them to experience it, rather than taking a combatitive attitude.

I'm not saying I am a perfect example of this, but I do at least want to hold it up as an ideal to strive for, and repent when I fail to live up to it. I know we keep trying to say that we are being charitable simply by presenting the truth, but St. Paul adds the qualifier, he doesn't just say it is loving to speak the truth, but exhorts us to "speak the truth in love" (Eph 4:15)

Of course I expect only retaliation in response so go ahead and bring it on. I am about done here though, there's not enough time to present Catholicism as it deserves to be in its fullness. I don't think many even care about that. But if you ever did want to get us right, just read one book by Scott Hahn or Pope Benedict XVI and you will see that the Biblical and Christocentric faith that they present is not even a distant relative of the supposed Catholicism which has been attacked in this post

Everyone one should read...
The Father Who Keepes His Promises,,, Scott Hahn

The Lambs Supper,,, scott Hahn. About the Mass...as it relates to Revelation.

Yes. We have a knee jerk reaction .
I was raised Catholic and taught there so I know the doctrine.
Also, i know priests personally and can always turn to them.

Many here remember how the church used to be...

 

[FranC]

I really do not understand how an intelligent woman like yourself could defend the Catholic Church.

I find it baffling. Take a good like look at the Vatican, how does that in any way resemble the time of the apostles?

I have very fond memories of too of times in the RC church, however, that does not mean I was looking at it from a biblical perspective.

I tried to stay in the Catholic church for many years even after I was a born again believer, it is impossible to read the bible and stay in the Catholic church, that is what I came to realize. No wonder they tucked it away for so many years.

Heres why i defend the catholic church...

I fear that the real enemy is coming. It would behoove us to stand together against it.
Another reason is that i like to defend all of christianity.

I dont like calvinism for several reasons. Ill discuss against it with anyone.
But if others bunched up on them, id defend their right to believe Calvin.

Islam is a destructive religion.
Theyre living under real law.
We should defend each other while disagreeing.
I see too much hate here...

 

[FranC]

If you believe antichrist come out from Mecca than you do not believe the Bible, you accuse Bible lie

I can't believe Christian say bible lie

Antichrist went out from us/Christian, not Islam

1 john 2
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us

Muhhama d started a new religion.
Isnt that Going Out From Us?

 

[stonesoffire]

than you believe Quran and not bible

Them's fighin words...am married to a Jew...I stand with them.

 

[FranC]

Why does the priest need to do this?

Are you going to tell me as well the RC has changed its doctrine on transubstantiation?

No. transubstatiation is still a doctrine. It's based on John 6.

The reason the priest does this is because Jesus said so.
"Do this in memory of Me" from the Last Supper.
It was practiced from the beginning...

 

[Gabriel2020]

Why are people not getting this. Anti-Christ means the enemy of Jesus Christ. Against him from beginning to end. The old testament talks about the anti-christ coming into power through the military. An Athiest who is against God and everything he stands for.

 

[FranC]

Jumping in to your reply, but I do agree that Calvinism as a doctrine is very very flawed.

But you need to realize that Truth is not any church it is only in Jesus and the scriptures.

I belong to a home church and really that is all church should be. I do not agree with buildings and extensive hierarchy etc., etc.,

How do we know what the truth is?
Everybody believes something different.

I also believe Jesus is the truth.
This is why I look to Him more than the writers of the NT.

Calvinism is bad news...

 

[shrume]

No. transubstatiation is still a doctrine. It's based on John 6.

The reason the priest does this is because Jesus said so.
"Do this in memory of Me" from the Last Supper.
It was practiced from the beginning...

Not the way Catholics do it today. They believe that when prayed over by the priest, the Eucharist literally becomes the body of Christ and the wine literally becomes his blood. What should be a remembrance the Catholics have turned into a mystical ceremony.

The manner in which the change occurs, the Catholic Church teaches, is a mystery: "The signs of bread and wine become, in a way surpassing understanding, the Body and Blood of Christ."[3]:1333

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation

Yeah, I got that from Wikipedia, but you can get the same info from Catholic sites.

(Hi Fran... first post to you..)

 

[shrume]

How do we know what the truth is?

By rightly-dividing the scriptures. (yes, everyone thinks that's what they're doing..)

Everybody believes something different.

I also believe Jesus is the truth.
This is why I look to Him more than the writers of the NT.

Don't you believe the NT scriptures are God-breathed? I do.

Anything Jesus tells you will not contradict the scriptures.

Calvinism is bad news...

Agreed!