Deplet: Wow, what a story. I hope that you are doing better now. I remember going to a church that was real big on outreach. I drove a lady and a carload of kids to church one cold stormy day. Anyway I got to church and the fan blade broke on the old car and me and the lady were out in the cold taking the radiator off to get at the fan blade when five big men and the Pastor came out with a wooden sign that said JESUS SAVES on it. Well several of the men started to help us when the Pastor told them that we could handle it. So five men held the ladder while he claimed up and put the sign in place, sigh! That is a form of religion but not of God.
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G
His,... it is more common then you know, for some reason, most just don't open their mouth, and speak out,. We all need to start speaking out, and if we see, hear, or witness a wrong by even a pastor,. Say something, speak out and say,. " your actions are not biblical, and your wrong, ..... make it right,
D
Invisible vs. visible church. The visible church has a lot more people in it than the invisible church, BUT the invisible church is in the midst of the visible church.
That's why some people say good things about their churches. There are people -- God's people -- doing God's work. I don't trust the visible church. I do trust the invisible when I see them.
And I do what I can quietly. I assume all of those in the invisible do the same, because that's what God will have us do. I've been helped from some of the invisible.
That's why some people say good things about their churches. There are people -- God's people -- doing God's work. I don't trust the visible church. I do trust the invisible when I see them.
And I do what I can quietly. I assume all of those in the invisible do the same, because that's what God will have us do. I've been helped from some of the invisible.
Sorry you have been through so much Lynn, and the church basically turned its back on you.
We go to a church in the inner city. We help people, including food and clothing, rides, whatever all the time. And they mostly are NOT church members.
A new church was just established only a few blocks from us. They wanted to partner with us. Their ministry is to reach out to street people. They put on meals for them, and love them, help them get away from addictions. We truly were not reaching the actual people living on the street. So now we prayer partner with them. They have a lot of money, because they are a church plant from a well to do church. But the pastors have to raise their own support, as the church they came from will not support them, and the street people cannot support them.
Before Christmas we partnered and did a neighborhood outreach with them, including a meal once a week. I was a teacher, and I confess it was the first time in a long, long time I had anything to do with street people. God dealt with my heart in spades! I am ashamed at my uppity attitude I had before this. Oh, I would write a check for the poor, just don't ask me to sit next to them at a Bible study in unwashed clothes with unwashed bodies underneath, and hair not even combed.
But it was exciting, because some of the people at the outreach were members of the other church. They really had turned their lives around, in ways I could not understand having never experienced what they had.
Anyway, just to say it has never been my experience that the church has not helped people. Before I moved, the church I was in was very upper middle class. Lots of wealthy people. We sponsored a church run after school daycare for working parents. We provided school lunches for children that did not have money for them. We sponsored drives for winter clothing, which was vital in the northern Alberta community we lived in. I never saw anyone turn their nose up at someone else. And no one had to be a member to get financial help.
I would love to say it is because that is what Canadians do, but I am quite sure there are many Canadian churches that do not. What I think is that we have always been careful to attend and be members of church that have deliberately inculcated the importance of caring for the poor and needy in their gospel presentation. There are pages and pages in the Bible about helping the poor, especially Christians. Paul's collection for the needy from the famine in Israel is woven into the pages of his epistles. The Old Testament makes caring for the poor an integral part of the gospel. And that is one thing that does not disappear in the New Covenant. Justice is intricately linked with caring for the poor. That is what "to do justice" means!
"He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the Lord require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8
We go to a church in the inner city. We help people, including food and clothing, rides, whatever all the time. And they mostly are NOT church members.
A new church was just established only a few blocks from us. They wanted to partner with us. Their ministry is to reach out to street people. They put on meals for them, and love them, help them get away from addictions. We truly were not reaching the actual people living on the street. So now we prayer partner with them. They have a lot of money, because they are a church plant from a well to do church. But the pastors have to raise their own support, as the church they came from will not support them, and the street people cannot support them.
Before Christmas we partnered and did a neighborhood outreach with them, including a meal once a week. I was a teacher, and I confess it was the first time in a long, long time I had anything to do with street people. God dealt with my heart in spades! I am ashamed at my uppity attitude I had before this. Oh, I would write a check for the poor, just don't ask me to sit next to them at a Bible study in unwashed clothes with unwashed bodies underneath, and hair not even combed.
But it was exciting, because some of the people at the outreach were members of the other church. They really had turned their lives around, in ways I could not understand having never experienced what they had.
Anyway, just to say it has never been my experience that the church has not helped people. Before I moved, the church I was in was very upper middle class. Lots of wealthy people. We sponsored a church run after school daycare for working parents. We provided school lunches for children that did not have money for them. We sponsored drives for winter clothing, which was vital in the northern Alberta community we lived in. I never saw anyone turn their nose up at someone else. And no one had to be a member to get financial help.
I would love to say it is because that is what Canadians do, but I am quite sure there are many Canadian churches that do not. What I think is that we have always been careful to attend and be members of church that have deliberately inculcated the importance of caring for the poor and needy in their gospel presentation. There are pages and pages in the Bible about helping the poor, especially Christians. Paul's collection for the needy from the famine in Israel is woven into the pages of his epistles. The Old Testament makes caring for the poor an integral part of the gospel. And that is one thing that does not disappear in the New Covenant. Justice is intricately linked with caring for the poor. That is what "to do justice" means!
"He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the Lord require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8
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It's true.,the organized church who 'corporately' meets in a building is to be like Jesus and some churches have not done that. We Christians individually are supposed to be like Jesus and some of us have also missed the mark.
It seems to me we who have been disappointed by other Christians (who are the church) and the building called a church have an opportunity to be to others what no one was for us. Who better than us who have been in need would know more about the harsh realities of being poor and alone?
Sometimes the hardest thing to do is forgive brothers who we expected to know better. To learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of those who have hurt us. We can't dump the church since Jesus has paid for His now spotless bride and is coming back for her.
We must forgive each other as we have been and are always forgiven IN Christ. Then be examples based on how Jesus helped us and loved us in our needy state., we help and love those in need with a clearer sense of their needs. Having true compassion.
D
Ah, but the beauty of being in a visible church is to find out who the invisible are and start working with that core.
Martin Luther never wanted to leave the Catholic Church. He wanted to bring it back to what it's supposed to be -- church. He didn't quit. He got kicked out. (Well, they were going to kill him, so his buddies hauled him out of the area.) Sometimes not quitting changes within.
There are just as many lost people in a church as outside a church. If we keep dividing over visible and invisible, all we get is more and more churches of the visible. lol
Martin Luther never wanted to leave the Catholic Church. He wanted to bring it back to what it's supposed to be -- church. He didn't quit. He got kicked out. (Well, they were going to kill him, so his buddies hauled him out of the area.) Sometimes not quitting changes within.
There are just as many lost people in a church as outside a church. If we keep dividing over visible and invisible, all we get is more and more churches of the visible. lol
D
That's where I think we fell through the cracks. We weren't members and we weren't street people. We actually live in a neighborhood that is somewhere between blue-collar and upper-middle class. (Young people buy a house they can afford, and sometime in their life they go from middle-class to upper middle class.)
Since we aren't street people, we don't qualify for free meals in their street ministry. Since we're not addicts, we don't qualify through that ministry. Since we used to be middle-class so bought good clothes to last, we didn't qualify that way either. (Although. Got to say, after 18-25 years, the clothes are fraying. We can afford new clothes, but I'm still stuck in overalls, and overalls aren't trending now. lol) We were never part of the LBGT community, so we don't qualify for that ministry either. They even have a disabled ministry, except that's for people who are disabled but can go to church. And we're not in healthcare, so lost on that one too.
It's not that they don't minister. (I wouldn't have been part of the Mercy Ministry if they didn't minister mercy. lol) It's that they minister to certain kinds of people, and we're
Z. None of the above.
Since we aren't street people, we don't qualify for free meals in their street ministry. Since we're not addicts, we don't qualify through that ministry. Since we used to be middle-class so bought good clothes to last, we didn't qualify that way either. (Although. Got to say, after 18-25 years, the clothes are fraying. We can afford new clothes, but I'm still stuck in overalls, and overalls aren't trending now. lol) We were never part of the LBGT community, so we don't qualify for that ministry either. They even have a disabled ministry, except that's for people who are disabled but can go to church. And we're not in healthcare, so lost on that one too.
It's not that they don't minister. (I wouldn't have been part of the Mercy Ministry if they didn't minister mercy. lol) It's that they minister to certain kinds of people, and we're
Z. None of the above.
D
Since I cannot go to church, I still see opportunities to give. I see them on this site, and do so privately. I see them in the VA hospital. I see them on the streets. There is plenty of opportunities to give.
I see one now that I cannot do alone. GMom has a need. (She's not asking, and I'm just bringing it to people's attention.) Please read her first post on this site.
I see one now that I cannot do alone. GMom has a need. (She's not asking, and I'm just bringing it to people's attention.) Please read her first post on this site.