Here is Joseph Prince......

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,077
1,915
113
#61
Of course man has a choice, but that's not WOF, NICI, is about. We supposedly have the authority through faith, and the power of our words, to command things to be, and they shall be. Regardless of the participation of others.

Many WOF teachers, like Hagin, taught that God is obligated to respond to our "creative" words. Such teaching is carried on by the Hagin family, and many others such as Hinn, Copeland, and Meyer.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
410
0
#62
I see some people at church every Sunday crying and moaning about something they did during that week before coming to church prayer service that we have 30 minutes before the preacher delivers the message

and when they are praying they seem to keep saying forgive me and it seems like they are doing this every Sunday and I think this is what people are talking about when they say you need to keep asking forgiveness.

let me see if I got it right.:eek:

you are saying that a person needs to ask forgiveness once for their sinful nature and then you don't need to continue asking after that?
Basically, it is us saying at the first, "Forgive me for the life I have been leading, and the beliefs I held about what "saves" us. I understand now, from hearing your words and reading the rest of the Bible what YOUR what is, and I have made a choice (repented) based upon that knowledge and understanding."

From that point on, you are an adopted child, and no longer have to keep on asking for God to adopt you into His family again. Likewise, you are already forgiven. You do not have to keep asking God if He is willing to forgive you for this latest screw-up, that you feel might be THE ONE that is so bad that He just isn't going to forgive you for this one.

"Forgiveness" is a state of being IN Christ, and it is NOT an individual judgment session where you are brought before the court of God at each turn in the road you may have missed... to see if God will condemn you this time. Remember Romans 1? "There is NOW no condemnation.... Paul did not write, "There is, at this point, no condemnation... until next week when you will probably be in peril of losing your Salvation once again... just like you were last Thursday, and then again on Saturday night...... and will be again on the 15th of this month."
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
410
0
#63
Of course man has a choice, but that's not WOF, NICI, is about. We supposedly have the authority through faith, and the power of our words, to command things to be, and they shall be. Regardless of the participation of others.

Many WOF teachers, like Hagin, taught that God is obligated to respond to our "creative" words. Such teaching is carried on by the Hagin family, and many others such as Hinn, Copeland, and Meyer.
And you can show written proof of all this? Even a full length video will do.... NOT a few minutes pulled out of the middle of a sermon. (Frankly, I might believe you about Hinn and Copeland... But I think I would STILL have to read or watch it for myself.) I won't bad mouth a person on the word of someone else.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
410
0
#64
Do you realize that with this "I gotta ask forgiveness" thinking, one of these days God just might say, "No."

Boy, wouldn't you feel foolish, spending years begging for repeated forgiveness..... only to have it all thrown out the window that one day you might catch God in a bad mood. (Careful when you blast back with that "He is faithful to forgive us" verse, because that point is my whole reason for this particular post.)
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#65
Is repentance and confession the same thing?

I think that depends on who your talking to. For a sinner who has not accepted Jesus Christ as Savior there is that repentance and confession ..
Romans 10:9-10
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the death thou shalt be saved, for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation. (remembered part of it in KJ but copied the rest from NAS)

The sorrow for sin and the resulting change comes in repentance of that kind. The confession of the Lord. But also confessing guilt for sin and then finding forgiveness for sin and guilt is a result. Getting saved...amazing.

As a believer now for some 30yrs. I've only recently learned that what I'm going through when repenting is agreeing with God that something is not in line with His will and changing my mind as the Holy Spirit shows me the way I should go to match His will. Coming to the joyful realization that Jesus has paid for that sin already and I am not having to walk in shame and guilt anymore but to receive again His gift of no condemnation. That I've found is true repentance. That change of mind without condemnation and guilt and shame.

This kind of repentance and confession honors the Lord because He gets the credit for it all as well as the love that pours out of our hearts that He has done allll this for us.
Amazing and going through the major JOY of forgiveness again and again making that change something to look forward to in learning and not avoiding Him like I used to do because I still carried guilt and shame. He took that as well.

Humanly speaking we think (and are taught) that if we punish ourselves and do some type of penance it will somehow get God to forgive us. When in reality that is disregarding what Jesus did on the cross, putting our eyes away from Jesus and focusing on how pathetic and lowly I can make myself before Him to pay for my sin.
 
Last edited:
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
410
0
#66
I think that depends on who your talking to. For a sinner who has not accepted Jesus Christ as Savior there is that repentance and confession ..
Romans 10:9-10
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the death thou shalt be saved, for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation. (remembered part of it in KJ but copied the rest from NAS)

The sorrow for sin and the resulting change comes in repentance of that kind. The confession of the Lord. But also confessing guilt for sin and then finding forgiveness for sin and guilt is a result. Getting saved...amazing.

As a believer now for some 30yrs. I've only recently learned that what I'm going through when repenting is agreeing with God that something is not in line with His will and changing my mind as the Holy Spirit shows me the way I should go to match His will. Coming to the joyful realization that Jesus has paid for that sin already and I am not having to walk in shame and guilt anymore but to receive again His gift of no condemnation. That I've found is true repentance. That change of mind without condemnation and guilt and shame.

This kind of repentance and confession honors the Lord because He gets the credit for it all as well as the love that pours out of our hearts that He has done allll this for us.
Amazing and going through the major JOY of forgiveness again and again making that change something to look forward to in learning and not avoiding Him like I used to do because I still carried guilt and shame. He took that as well.

Humanly speaking we think (and are taught) that if we punish ourselves and do some type of penance it will somehow get God to forgive us. When in reality that is disregarding what Jesus did on the cross, putting our eyes away from Jesus and focusing on how pathetic and lowly I can make myself before Him to pay for my sin.
Well put, and it made me do some thinking on "repentance" that I hadn't really considered. Thank you.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,648
1,085
113
#67
I think that depends on who your talking to. For a sinner who has not accepted Jesus Christ as Savior there is that repentance and confession ..
Romans 10:9-10
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the death thou shalt be saved, for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation. (remembered part of it in KJ but copied the rest from NAS)

The sorrow for sin and the resulting change comes in repentance of that kind. The confession of the Lord. But also confessing guilt for sin and then finding forgiveness for sin and guilt is a result. Getting saved...amazing.

As a believer now for some 30yrs. I've only recently learned that what I'm going through when repenting is agreeing with God that something is not in line with His will and changing my mind as the Holy Spirit shows me the way I should go to match His will. Coming to the joyful realization that Jesus has paid for that sin already and I am not having to walk in shame and guilt anymore but to receive again His gift of no condemnation. That I've found is true repentance. That change of mind without condemnation and guilt and shame.

This kind of repentance and confession honors the Lord because He gets the credit for it all as well as the love that pours out of our hearts that He has done allll this for us.
Amazing and going through the major JOY of forgiveness again and again making that change something to look forward to in learning and not avoiding Him like I used to do because I still carried guilt and shame. He took that as well.

Humanly speaking we think (and are taught) that if we punish ourselves and do some type of penance it will somehow get God to forgive us. When in reality that is disregarding what Jesus did on the cross, putting our eyes away from Jesus and focusing on how pathetic and lowly I can make myself before Him to pay for my sin.
Would the answer to my question be repentance and confession are not the same?

I believe person that is ready to accept CHRIST will confess and then repent.

Repenting meaning turn and go the other way.

An if you don't believe a Christian should keep asking for forgiveness then a Christian would need to confess only.

Would you agree?
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
410
0
#68
Would the answer to my question be repentance and confession are not the same?

I believe person that is ready to accept CHRIST will confess and then repent.

Repenting meaning turn and go the other way.

An if you don't believe a Christian should keep asking for forgiveness then a Christian would need to confess only.

Would you agree?
Well, actually Jesus, in almost every instance in the Bible, forgave sins..... But I really don't recall any of those people first asking Him to forgive them. Not saying I couldn't have missed it.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
#69
Okay, fine. Let's put your money where your mouth is. If WOF (name-it-and-claim-it) is actually true, then why in the world aren't you going to every hospital you can and clearing all the patients out by claiming healing for them?

Why aren't you in graveyards, raising loved ones from the dead by claiming life for them?

Why aren't you word-of-faithing food for the starving people in the world?

For that matter, why didn't Paul heal the thorn in his side by WOF? Or Timothy's stomach problems?

Daniel 3:17,18 says: "If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and He will rescue us from your hand, O King. But even if He does not, we want you to know, O King, that we will not serve yours gods or worship the image of gold you have set up."

It's up to God, not you "claiming" something, that decides an outcome.
You surprise me knowing so little about healing and words of faith, seeing you started out with Mr. Hagin.
As for healing everyone I see, I think it best to go to the word of God and see why Jesus Himself couldn't heal His own kinfolk in His hometown.

Mat 13:57
And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
Mat 13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Why couldn't Jesus do many might works and only be able to heal a few sick folk? Because of their unbelief. Read the scriptures, and you should see over and over again, Jesus would say something like, according to your faith be it done unto you or as thou hast believed, and so on.
So faith from the person asking for healing is one thing needed for them to get their healing.
Another biggie is ignorance or a lack of knowledge.
If all you know is salvation only and that WOF stuff don't work, then healing is going to be hard to come by.
Those who speak against words of faith speak to their own shame, and the very truth they speak against shall judge them.

Rom 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Why do you condemn something that is written in the book you claim to believe? What do you think Rom 10:8-10 is talking about?
I put it right there in red, the very thing which they were preaching. The word of faith.
He goes on to explain how the word of faith works in verses 9 and 10.
I didn't write the thing, I'm just explaining what the verses say.

As for the verses you quoted in Daniel, the translation is incorrect.
The correct translation would be, "but if not..."
There is a difference.
The three men were not saying, but if God doesn't deliver us. No. Everyone needs to follow the sentence. What is the subject of the sentence and what were they talking about?
It was about the king throwing them in the fiery furnace, not about God delivering them.
In other words, they were continuing the flow of the subject by saying, "if you don't throw us in the fiery furnace we still will not worship the golden image."
Think how ridiculous it would be for you to say, "even if our God does not deliver us, and you do kill us in the fiery furnace, we still will not worship the golden image".
If God doesn't deliver them, then they will be dead, and only an idiot would be stupid enough to say, that they still will not worship the image. How are you going to do that if they kill you and your lying there dead?
 
Last edited:

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,077
1,915
113
#70
And you can show written proof of all this? Even a full length video will do.... NOT a few minutes pulled out of the middle of a sermon. (Frankly, I might believe you about Hinn and Copeland... But I think I would STILL have to read or watch it for myself.) I won't bad mouth a person on the word of someone else.


Here's a video where Prince teaches about "speaking" things into existence. (see 4:25 - 4:35) He even says that you don't even need much faith as long as you keep speaking what you desire. In it, he also claims God speaks to him personally (which he has claimed many times). He also claims that we are seated on Christ's throne! (5:18 - 5:23)

This should disturb any Christian.

[video=youtube;-UrZ8IoW7oU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UrZ8IoW7oU[/video]
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
410
0
#71
As I keep saying, and every hater keeps ignoring.... give me more that a few minutes cut out of the middle of ANYONE'S teaching if you want me to know ALL that then said.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
410
0
#72
Truthfully, even in this abbreviated clip, Prince spoke Biblical truth.... IF you were listening for it, and not waiting to pounce on a word or two that you didn't want to listen to.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,077
1,915
113
#73
Truthfully, even in this abbreviated clip, Prince spoke Biblical truth.... IF you were listening for it, and not waiting to pounce on a word or two that you didn't want to listen to.
I get it, Willie. It doesn't matter how much evidence is given. You like the man and you will follow the man - no matter what.

I can understand that, because I was like that with John Hagee. Back in the day, people came to me and told me that Hagee claimed Jesus didn't come to be the Messiah. I didn't believe them, and just didn't want to hear about it. I liked Hagee, and his style of preaching, and that's all that mattered.

Until one day I was watching a clip of Hagee promoting his book "Jerusalem Countdown" and sure enough, he said the exact thing people had told me he said. For a time, I was too proud to admit that I was wrong - but when I finally did, I felt great!

Now, I still like John Hagee, and I think he preaches a lot of truth, but I pay closer attention to what he says, and took him down from the pedestal I placed him on.
 
P

popeye

Guest
#74
Of course man has a choice, but that's not WOF, NICI, is about. We supposedly have the authority through faith, and the power of our words, to command things to be, and they shall be. Regardless of the participation of others.

Many WOF teachers, like Hagin, taught that God is obligated to respond to our "creative" words. Such teaching is carried on by the Hagin family, and many others such as Hinn, Copeland, and Meyer.
Those are sound biblical basic concepts. Seems to me you have basically robbed yourself.
 
P

popeye

Guest
#75
I get it, Willie. It doesn't matter how much evidence is given. You like the man and you will follow the man - no matter what.

I can understand that, because I was like that with John Hagee. Back in the day, people came to me and told me that Hagee claimed Jesus didn't come to be the Messiah. I didn't believe them, and just didn't want to hear about it. I liked Hagee, and his style of preaching, and that's all that mattered.

Until one day I was watching a clip of Hagee promoting his book "Jerusalem Countdown" and sure enough, he said the exact thing people had told me he said. For a time, I was too proud to admit that I was wrong - but when I finally did, I felt great!

Now, I still like John Hagee, and I think he preaches a lot of truth, but I pay closer attention to what he says, and took him down from the pedestal I placed him on.
Statement of faith from Hagee;
[h=1]Beliefs[/h]

[h=4]The Lord Jesus Christ[/h]We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God. We believe in His substitutionary death for all men, His resurrection, and His eventual return to judge the world.
[h=4]Salvation[/h]We believe all men are born with a sinful nature and that the work of the Cross was to redeem man from the power of sin. We believe that this salvation is available to all who will receive it.



Could it be hagee is referring to the gathering of the Jews as incomplete in the rapture?

The OT clinging jews go through the GT and are harvested towards the end. Which depicts The Jews submitting as a OT pple to the Messiah Jesus Christ as the last part of the harvest before his return.

So from that vantage point Jesus was technically not their messiah by their own stubborn rejection.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
410
0
#76
I get it, Willie. It doesn't matter how much evidence is given. You like the man and you will follow the man - no matter what.

I can understand that, because I was like that with John Hagee. Back in the day, people came to me and told me that Hagee claimed Jesus didn't come to be the Messiah. I didn't believe them, and just didn't want to hear about it. I liked Hagee, and his style of preaching, and that's all that mattered.

Until one day I was watching a clip of Hagee promoting his book "Jerusalem Countdown" and sure enough, he said the exact thing people had told me he said. For a time, I was too proud to admit that I was wrong - but when I finally did, I felt great!

Now, I still like John Hagee, and I think he preaches a lot of truth, but I pay closer attention to what he says, and took him down from the pedestal I placed him on.
I don't care who you like, or don't like. I just have a problem with people lying about what ANYONE says (even Obama) to try and belittle them. (Yes, IMHO, telling half-truths is still lying)
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
2,894
127
63
#77
Here's a video where Prince teaches about "speaking" things into existence. (see 4:25 - 4:35) He even says that you don't even need much faith as long as you keep speaking what you desire. In it, he also claims God speaks to him personally (which he has claimed many times). He also claims that we are seated on Christ's throne! (5:18 - 5:23)

This should disturb any Christian.

[video=youtube;-UrZ8IoW7oU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UrZ8IoW7oU[/video]
What is disturbing is that you find what the man is saying to be disturbing.
Ignorance abounds concerning these things with most of you.
I seriously question the salvation of those who appose teachings such as, speaking things into existence, like God did. That's how faith works. It's written in the word of God, over and over again.
Why can't you see something so easily seen?
Has anyone actually disproved it? Aside from personal experience, I have many scripture verses that shows that that is how the kingdom of God operates.
Those who don't agree with speaking God's word over your situation or words of faith, show their own ignorance of how faith works, to your own shame. You spoke your own salvation into existence, when you thanked Jesus for coming into your heart, and saving you, didn't you?
Again, no one has disproved anything I wrote. I noticed that there was no response to the scriptures I use and explanations I gave in the above post. Why are you against something you can't even disprove to be a truth?
Like it or not, words of faith work for or against you, whether you believe it or not, because it is how the law of faith works and it's not going to change just because you don't like it nor believe it is a truth of God.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,648
1,085
113
#78
Romans 10:8
king James version(kjv)

8.)But what saith it? Thewordis nigh thee, evenin thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, theword of faith, which we preach;
+++++++++
This would be confession/believing and I wouldn't confess unless I first believed.

The question I would want to ask about this verse is which one comes first?confession then believing? or believing then confession?

I thought about this question from the video on J Prince and he pointed out that scripture I posted.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,077
1,915
113
#79
I don't care who you like, or don't like. I just have a problem with people lying about what ANYONE says (even Obama) to try and belittle them. (Yes, IMHO, telling half-truths is still lying)
Show me where I lied, Willie.


Did I lie about Prince's praise of heretic Kenneth Hagin?

Did I lie about Prince's support for Word Of Faith?

Did I lie when Prince claimed we will be seated on the very throne of Jesus?

Did I lie about Price claiming we can "speak" things into existence through the "power" of our words? (i.e., "name-it-and-claim-it)
 
Last edited:

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,077
1,915
113
#80
Statement of faith from Hagee;
Beliefs



The Lord Jesus Christ

We believe in the deity of Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God. We believe in His substitutionary death for all men, His resurrection, and His eventual return to judge the world.
Salvation

We believe all men are born with a sinful nature and that the work of the Cross was to redeem man from the power of sin. We believe that this salvation is available to all who will receive it.



Could it be hagee is referring to the gathering of the Jews as incomplete in the rapture?

The OT clinging jews go through the GT and are harvested towards the end. Which depicts The Jews submitting as a OT pple to the Messiah Jesus Christ as the last part of the harvest before his return.

So from that vantage point Jesus was technically not their messiah by their own stubborn rejection.


Hagee literally claimed that Jesus did not come to be the messiah at all. He later corrected his error in the book "Jerusalem Countdown."