Here is Joseph Prince......

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ladylynn

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JP also preaches The Rapture.... and I flat, don't believe in any of that "escape pod" mentality. I find it nowhere in Scripture. But just because the man gets some things wrong, as I see them, (just like all of us do), I still consider him one of the most brilliant scholars living today.
Yes, I know you don't hold to the rapture of the church like I do but that's ok, you can't be perfect Willie...:cool: But I do appreciate your ability to allow someone to see things differently than you and not throw them overboard for everything else they say. That speaks maturity to me and I respect you for holding to that on these boards.

It's so important to respect and uphold one another here while we disagree, we can be gracious about it.


 
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ladylynn

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What I have heard...... let's see now..... it might be what I HAVEN'T heard..... I haven't heard:
repentance, obedience, conviction.



What do I hear? That God will NEVER judge us for present unforgiven, unrepentant sin. That God would be unholy to judge us after Jesus took all our sins upon himself.
Then there's hypergrace, WOF, etc.

God will never judge us again as believers because we have been made righteous justified forgiven when we got saved and received the gift of salvation through Christ. There is therefore now NO condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus. Rom.8:1
2 Cor.5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. All our sins have been judged already and we cannot be re-condemned because Jesus paid the price once and for all. He doesn't have to be re-sacraficed for your sins like they did in the OT with the blood of bulls and goats.,., That's not "hyper grace" that's the Gospel.,good news! :D
ALL our sins are forgiven past-present and future as far as the east is from the west! What we do now when we sin is receive again the gift of no condemnation and know your sins have been paid for in full and enter again into that joy of your salvation with more ability to be like Jesus as you walk out what He has given you.
God already accepted the payment of Jesus shed blood on the cross so that payment is more than enough., Our redemption was paid in full, not on the installment plan. The more we realize we are righteous IN Christ, the more we will rest in Him and be more like Him. For it is His righteousness we received as a gift, we did not earn righteousness, we received it as a gift. Not hyper grace...there is no such word in the Bible. That is a term for people who don't understand how amazing grace is.

And it isn't arrogance and pride to take the grace that God freely gives us because Jesus paid a huge price for our redemption.
 
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ladylynn

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What ya gonna say? Most cult leaders have their followers who'll defend them through thick and thin. That's what I'm seeing with this Prince guy.

(Condemned if we do condemned if we don't....) The reason this thread is up is for those of you who have a problem with what you call Word of Faith and at the moment Joseph Prince., for you to address the issues so they can clearly be answered with the guys own book. So you can hear it from the proverbial horses mouth. Now when this is trying to be done in this thread, you remain unmoved by your opinions and continue to accuse falsely regardless of an openess by the OP to answer your questions.

You not only stay with your judgment of JP but now call those who attempt to clear up any misunderstandings - "cult followers who defend through thick and thin" :confused:. It would be insulting if I allowed myself to be insulted. You are fighting against a resolution to this issue of WOF in the matter of wrong accusations leveled against other believers who want to resolve it. Why crossnote? Is this Christ like?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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(Condemned if we do condemned if we don't....) The reason this thread is up is for those of you who have a problem with what you call Word of Faith and at the moment Joseph Prince., for you to address the issues so they can clearly be answered with the guys own book. So you can hear it from the proverbial horses mouth. Now when this is trying to be done in this thread, you remain unmoved by your opinions and continue to accuse falsely regardless of an openess by the OP to answer your questions.

You not only stay with your judgment of JP but now call those who attempt to clear up any misunderstandings - "cult followers who defend through thick and thin" :confused:. It would be insulting if I allowed myself to be insulted. You are fighting against a resolution to this issue of WOF in the matter of wrong accusations leveled against other believers who want to resolve it. Why crossnote? Is this Christ like?
You seem to miss my point. I don't even know this Prince person, but what I am seeing is a cult like devotion to him by ones like yourself. It probably has nothing to do with Prince as you carried on in the same manner with Wommack. It's most likely a certain psychological mindset that swoons over teachers as much as I have seen...hopefully not surpassing your devotion to Christ...or is it some of your ways to keep drumming on your favorite teachers?
OBTW, this is 'BIBLE DISCUSSION FORUM' I hope you haven't forgotten.

Little children, keep yourselves from idols.
(1Jn 5:21)
 
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ladylynn

Guest
You seem to miss my point. I don't even know this Prince person, but what I am seeing is a cult like devotion to him by ones like yourself. It probably has nothing to do with Prince as you carried on in the same manner with Wommack. It's most likely a certain psychological mindset that swoons over teachers as much as I have seen...hopefully not surpassing your devotion to Christ...or is it some of your ways to keep drumming on your favorite teachers?
OBTW, this is 'BIBLE DISCUSSION FORUM' I hope you haven't forgotten.

Little children, keep yourselves from idols.
(1Jn 5:21)[/QUO


My devotion to Jesus is obvious to someone who wants to see it. But to someone who wants to judge my heart and my motives?.. well, they can say whatever they want - like you just did, and be wrong as they seek to diminish another person by insulting them in forum. Any of us can do that with our words and our writing...but we are called to something higher than that.

 
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ladylynn

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Was on one of the other threads and it's about Job. This is a good youtube message. I would have put it in the youtube sermon room but couldn't figure out how. Very good message.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=grve-39hGc0
 
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ladylynn

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Lynn,
Haters are gonna hate. They live for it, and there is nothing you can do to rescue them.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Lynn,
Haters are gonna hate. They live for it, and there is nothing you can do to rescue them.
When an observation is interpreted as hate, then one is on the verge of paranoia.
I think you are older than that infantile statement.
And I wasn't aware someone was in the process of rescuing someone else from making observations.
For someone who has read the same book of Prince three times, like you have, I'd call a devotee...but that's just me.
 
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When an observation is interpreted as hate, then one is on the verge of paranoia.
I think you are older than that infantile statement.
And I wasn't aware someone was in the process of rescuing someone else from making observations.
For someone who has read the same book of Prince three times, like you have, I'd call a devotee...but that's just me.
I've read a couple of MacArthur's books several times, too. I like to know what is in a book, not just say I read through it.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
Lynn,
Haters are gonna hate. They live for it, and there is nothing you can do to rescue them.



The thing is Willie, who expects to be hated when they come here to share about the truths of the Bible together? You can't mean "hate" Maybe they are just very "annoyed" or "frustrated" ?? or Challenged and some just don't like to be challenged? But as a Christian woman, I don't get the personal attacks about someones devotion to Jesus. That is just plain hurtful and I'm sad to think that is what they meant to do., hurt me., or anyone else for that matter.

Thank you for your friendship here Willie., It seems like coming to the forums should be more like the way you and I discuss issues. You give your ideas, I give mine., you explain, I explain., and we both go off thinking how awesome God is and He will show us all the answers by and by but in the mean time we just keep studying and reading and praying and worshiping Him.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
When an observation is interpreted as hate, then one is on the verge of paranoia.
I think you are older than that infantile statement.
And I wasn't aware someone was in the process of rescuing someone else from making observations.
For someone who has read the same book of Prince three times, like you have, I'd call a devotee...but that's just me.


It does sound confusing crossnote I agree., to come here and have you seek to belittle and diminish me as a person does seem like you might have a problem with loving others who are different than you. But then here you are again calling Willie a "devotee" because he read a JP book and liked it. But you may not know he has read and reads tons of other books and has them on his computer. JP is just one of hundreds of people he has read. Me too for that matter. I grew up on John MacGarther along with J.V.Magee and so many others.

You have judged wrongly and you keep doing so even when you have been corrected or when you have been given opportunity to ask and receive answers to anything you might be misunderstanding about JP or some word of faith teachers who you seem to really dislike. But since that is why this thread was put up in the first place why get surprised when someone tries to clear up misunderstandings? And then use names like "devotees" Not only are you ignoring the reason the thread was put up but you personally attack the one who put it up. And me too since I also read some of JP books and can answer any questions you had if you just asked. But it does seem you would rather personally attack than try to be mature about it. Are you threatened because I know the Bible too and can post a different interpretation that is valid and just as valid as yours? Isn't that what "discussion" is all about??? To not be threatened but to learn and reason together.
 
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ladylynn.....sometimes we just have to agree that we disagree with others....Apparently, crossroad has a history of debate that ends at a crossroad. You do not have to defend yourself to crossroad...your spirit speaks volumes in these forums and chatrooms...as I've enjoyed reading your posts. Some people put so much FAITH in the internet, allowing them to have a soap box platform to stand upon to ventilate and express themselves. All they need is the security of having JESUS in their lives that you already have. It is all too easy to see who does and who doesn't.
 
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ladylynn

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ladylynn.....sometimes we just have to agree that we disagree with others....Apparently, crossroad has a history of debate that ends at a crossroad. You do not have to defend yourself to crossroad...your spirit speaks volumes in these forums and chatrooms...as I've enjoyed reading your posts. Some people put so much FAITH in the internet, allowing them to have a soap box platform to stand upon to ventilate and express themselves. All they need is the security of having JESUS in their lives that you already have. It is all too easy to see who does and who doesn't.

Hey pwrnJC, thanks for that! It is amazing how words have the power to mend and heal as well as wound. Thank you, I will take your wise advice and move forward. Blessings to you brother. :)
 
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It keeps amazing me how televangelists just pop up on national TV already rich & successful, & nobody ever seems to question how they got there, or who's footing the bill.

Before anyone says something blasphemous like "God did it", do some biblical research of how many people God used in scripture were super rich, or even "upper middle class"

Jeremiah might have started off rich or upper middle class when called, but was rejected by his family & disowned.
Matthew was rich when he was called, but quit his job to follow Jesus. Where did that leave him?

Paul states plainly that most of the apostles worked a trade & received love offerings from the churches.

When a televangelist is rich, & doesn't practice charity towards the poor, there's something he loves more than God.

1 Corinthians 1:17-31 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? [SUP]21 [/SUP]For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: [SUP]23 [/SUP]But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; [SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. [SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: [SUP]27 [/SUP]But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; [SUP]28 [/SUP]And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: [SUP]29 [/SUP]That no flesh should glory in his presence. [SUP]30 [/SUP]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: [SUP]31 [/SUP]That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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It does sound confusing crossnote I agree., to come here and have you seek to belittle and diminish me as a person does seem like you might have a problem with loving others who are different than you. But then here you are again calling Willie a "devotee" because he read a JP book and liked it. But you may not know he has read and reads tons of other books and has them on his computer. JP is just one of hundreds of people he has read. Me too for that matter. I grew up on John MacGarther along with J.V.Magee and so many others.

You have judged wrongly and you keep doing so even when you have been corrected or when you have been given opportunity to ask and receive answers to anything you might be misunderstanding about JP or some word of faith teachers who you seem to really dislike. But since that is why this thread was put up in the first place why get surprised when someone tries to clear up misunderstandings? And then use names like "devotees" Not only are you ignoring the reason the thread was put up but you personally attack the one who put it up. And me too since I also read some of JP books and can answer any questions you had if you just asked. But it does seem you would rather personally attack than try to be mature about it. Are you threatened because I know the Bible too and can post a different interpretation that is valid and just as valid as yours? Isn't that what "discussion" is all about??? To not be threatened but to learn and reason together.
3 times reading the same book and writing and defending JP ...in my book is a devotee. And as I said this section of CC is called BIBLE DISCUSSION Forum...not JP forum or Wommack forum, and this is repeated here leading me further to believe that we have a personality cult.

I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ."
(1Co 1:10-12)
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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ladylynn.....sometimes we just have to agree that we disagree with others....Apparently, crossroad has a history of debate that ends at a crossroad. You do not have to defend yourself to crossroad...your spirit speaks volumes in these forums and chatrooms...as I've enjoyed reading your posts. Some people put so much FAITH in the internet, allowing them to have a soap box platform to stand upon to ventilate and express themselves. All they need is the security of having JESUS in their lives that you already have. It is all too easy to see who does and who doesn't.
Yes it is easy to see who does and who doesn't.
That is, who does speak directly to the ones they are backbiting and those who don't.
But if it strokes your egos, have at it.
 
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Speaking the truth is not gossip. Do a behavioral study on cults, and cult leaders and you will see the similarities of devotion between Prince and his followers just the type you are exhibiting here...defend at all cost...that type of devotion should be reserved for Jesus...not our idols.

Well said crossnote! Some just cant leave it alone! I wonder why? Is it because they are well balanced christians ?? The infamous asian elvis with his hyper grace doctrines of devils gets more praise on this kind of thread than Christ himself! Ive seen a few comments where they can clearly see much error with this wolve but yet still see him as brilliant! JP has never had any formal theology training btw.... but yet he is brilliant? Amazing right?! LOL

Sadly and devastatingly enough, his devoted followers just may end up like the cast out >Parable of the Unprepared Wedding Crashers. This is a sobering parable
.
 
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ladylynn

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Proverbs 18:21

Death and life are in the power of the tongue…
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Many things in life can cause us to fear—losing our jobs, deadly diseases, terrorist attacks and so on. When these things confront us, we tend to give in to worry and fear, and start talking about our fears.

Job was no different. He constantly feared that God would punish him and his family because he kept thinking that his sons had sinned against God. He would get up early in the morning to offer burnt sacrifices, saying, “It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” And the Bible tells us that he did this “regularly”. (Job 1:5)

So Job kept confessing the sins of his sons and fearing that something terrible would happen to him and his family. In fact, his sin-consciousness didn’t just produce fear, the Bible tells us that he “greatly feared”. (Job 3:25)

It is important that we understand that it was Job’s sin-consciousness that opened the door to Satan. His preoccupation with sins that his family may have committed gave Satan the opportunity to bring death and destruction into his life. God had a hedge of protection around Job. But when he started being sin-conscious and having a fearful expectation of judgment, the hedge was removed and Satan could attack him. (Job 1:9–12)

My friend, today, if you have sinned, don’t say, “I have failed again. I deserve to be punished by God.” Know that you already have forgiveness of sins because Jesus was punished and condemned in your place! (Ephesians 1:7) So say, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ. Jesus, You are my holiness and perfection.” (1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21)

We must be mindful of what we believe and say regularly because “death and life are in the power of the tongue”. So when you hear of a deadly virus taking many lives, don’t say, “I’m next because I have not been a good Christian!” Instead, say, “Jesus, You are my righteousness and protection. Surely You shall deliver me from the snare of the fowler and from the perilous pestilence!” (Psalm 91:3)

Beloved, such believing and confessing not only please God, but they also shut the door on Satan so that he cannot make any inroad into your life!

Thought For The Day

Be mindful of what you believe and say regularly because death and life are in the power of the tongue



I have seen this to be true in my life as well. What I've said and worried about often ended up coming to pass. Even the world has made this observation when they say "self fulfilled prophecy" Instead of confessing the truth and how God is faithful in His love toward us so much that He sent His Son to save us. I think we make the same mistake Job did about worry. His children must have been a difficult bunch to parent. But the more we act on and talk about our worry the less we are trusting God and instead focusing on the problem and not the solution that would be resting in God's ability and promise to take care of us.
How much less would I have suffered had I just trusted God's love and provision for me and my family.
 
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ladylynn

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I've read a couple of MacArthur's books several times, too. I like to know what is in a book, not just say I read through it.

Willie, since when did it become a character flaw to read our books over again? I have tons of books I read over and over because I can't digest or remember it in just one reading. Reading and hearing God's Word too - over and over again helps me to retain it in my memory and then my heart. I think that is why it's a good idea to memorize Bible verses. Faith comes by hearing (and hearing and hearing) and hearing by Word of God. It's also a good idea to put in cds in your car while driving to hear the Word of God. It's good to have Christian music to uplift the heart to keep us reminded of His love for us and His instruction for us. Then we can not only remember it by the memorization but putting a tune to it also helps retain it in our memory.
I also constantly go to the Strong's concordance and different Bible commentary too. I like the Ryrie Study Bible NASB version probably because I've been using it longest and find it easy to understand (although I don't agree with all Mr.Ryrie says) I so respect him as a man of God and am so thankful for my different study Bibles.