Heresy on Christianchat

[loveme1]

7seven7, what makes a person a saint?

 

[7seven7]

I have to say I was watching the Pope and the peoples reactions on CNN today and would have to come to the conclusion that the people were worshipping him, you see the same at music festivals with celebrities...Idol worship, one can't dispute reality.

I can tell you why I, as a Catholic, love this Pope. Because when he got voted in, he showed alot of humilty and humbleness, and gave me the impression that he might be the one that will clean all the filth out of the Church. Not denying there's filth. Just like every other Church. He seems dedicated and strong enough in his faith to do the job at hand. And I pray he does. I think you saw a WHOLE HEAP OF LOVE!!! not worship..

 

[7seven7]

7seven7, what makes a person a saint?

Can you please answer that question first?

 

[loveme1]

Can you please answer that question first?

According to Scripture:

Revelation 14

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[7seven7]

According to Scripture:

Revelation 14

I agree, loveme1

 

[PS]

PS, you're really making me work here lol but it's all good, cz I'm learning aswell.


8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"? (Matt. 23:9).

Matthew 23:9

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.


The above quote from the Gospel of St. Matthew must be read in the context of the whole of chapter 23, in which our Lord Jesus Christ denounces the pride and hypocrisy of the Scribes and Pharisees, the contrast between their words and actions (v. 3), the heavy burdens they placed of the shoulders of the people without giving any assistance (v. 4) and their love to be seen and praised (vv. 5-7).
Our Lord used this hyperbole to provide a lesson in humility, exhorting His followers to realise that only the Heavenly Father is the genuine Father, while all others simply partake, or reveal a part, of His Fatherhood. Those in positions of power are not to lord it over others, imposing impossible burdens while seeking public recognition and praise, Christ concluded His admonitios, saying, " whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted" (v. 12).
A literal understanding of our Lord's words would lead to an absurd conclusion, prohibiting us from calling our natural fathers "father," while allowing us to call our mothers "mother." Yet, such an interpretation would go against scripture itself, where Our Lady says to the Child Jesus: "Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously" (St. Luke 2:48). It would also prevent us from calling anyone "teacher" for Our Lord warned equally against the use of this title as well: "But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all bretheren" (St. Matt. 23:8)
St. Paul confirms that there are various types of fatherhood, all of which are based on the Fatherhood of God: "For this cause I bow my kneesto the Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom all paternity in heaven and on earth is named" (Eph. 3:15). Abraham is acknowledged as the father of allwho have faith in numerous passages, even in the New Law:
Luke 16:30

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]30 [/SUP]And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
John 8:56

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]56 [/SUP]Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
Acts 7:2

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he said, “Brethren and fathers, listen: The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran,
Romans 4:11

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,
James 2:21

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

AND!!!

St. Paul addressed a crowd in Jerusalem as follows:
Acts 22:1New King James Version (NKJV)

22 “Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.”

St. Paul also applies the term "father" to himself, while on more than one occasion he writes to his own as if they were his children- 1Cor. 4:14-15, 2Cor. 12:14, Phil. 2:22, 1 Thes. 2:11, 1Tim. 1:2, Tit. 1:4, Phile. 1:10.

From these verses it is evident that the title "father" was used not with any sense of pride, but rather to engender tenderness and affection within spiritual relationships. The Catholic Church wishes her children to act in the same way when addressing those who partake in God's Fatherhood through preaching the Gospel and sanctifying the faithful.

<snip>

Copy/paste hard work isn't it! Not.

Catholic Apologetics - Lumen Verum - Apologetics course part two

Long essays are needed to turn the truth on it's head and these essays are very long and neither does it answer the question. The truth is very simple and only needs a short explanation. Here is what Barns says about Matthew 23:9


Matthew 23:9

"And call no man your Father ... - This does not, of course, forbid us to apply the term to our real father who we should respect and honour.

But the word “father” also denotes “authority, eminence, superiority, a right to command, and a claim to particular respect” and that is the sense in which it is used here and as our heavenly Father the title belongs eminently to God, and it is not right to give it to people.

Christian brethren are equal, this is why Paul addressed the crowd as brethren and fathers, you must take context into consideration which your strawman does not. Only God has supreme authority. Only He has a right to give laws; to declare doctrines that shall bind the conscience; to punish disobedience.

The Jewish teachers, (note the error) affected that title because they seem to have supposed that a teacher formed the man, or gave him real life, and sought, therefore, to be called father. Christ taught them that the source of all life and truth was God, and they ought not to seek or receive a title which properly belongs to Him."


Please don't trouble yourself with this error any further, it just confirms what is already known about Catholicism.

 

[loveme1]

7seven7,

no spite, no hate, peace flag flying.

what is happening in this picture?

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/...7c8cfb-7c30ba0beaad4fc69a957fe04b87d1c7-0.jpg


Don't think of what the catholic church would say, what does 7seven7 truly believe is happening in the picture?

 

[7seven7]

Copy/paste hard work isn't it! Not.

Catholic Apologetics - Lumen Verum - Apologetics course part two

Long essays are needed to turn the truth on it's head and these essays are very long. The truth is very simple and only needs a short explanation. Here is what Barns says about Matthew 23:9


Matthew 23:9

"And call no man your Father ... - This does not, of course, forbid us to apply the term to our real father who we should respect and honour.

But the word “father” also denotes “authority, eminence, superiority, a right to command, and a claim to particular respect” and that is the sense in which it is used here and as our heavenly Father the title belongs eminently to God, and it is not right to give it to people.

Christian brethren are equal, this is why Paul addressed the crowd as brethren and fathers, you must take context into consideration which your strawman does not. Only God has supreme authority. Only He has a right to give laws; to declare doctrines that shall bind the conscience; to punish disobedience.

The Jewish teachers, (note the error) affected that title because they seem to have supposed that a teacher formed the man, or gave him real life, and sought, therefore, to be called father. Christ taught them that the source of all life and truth was God, and they ought not to seek or receive a title which properly belongs to Him."


Please don't trouble yourself with this error any further, it just confirms what is already known about Catholicism.

Hey now, I never claimed to come up with all this stuff myself. You asked me some questions about the Catholic Churches position on these questions, and I gave you the answers I found when I was researching myself, which are the reasons I saw the Catholic Church to be a True Church. I didn't copy and paste lol I tried to find it online so I could copy and paste, but wasn't successful. So I have been typing it all out word for word. All I gave you was the answers to your questions, exactly like I got them when I was asking the exact same questions about 6 months ago. Peace. Do you want the rest of the answers?

 

[loveme1]

You looked in the wrong place for the answers.

The Bible holds the answers.

All you are doing is allowing yourself to put on catholic glasses which are blinding you.

 

[7seven7]

Copy/paste hard work isn't it! Not.

Catholic Apologetics - Lumen Verum - Apologetics course part two

Long essays are needed to turn the truth on it's head and these essays are very long and neither does it answer the question. The truth is very simple and only needs a short explanation. Here is what Barns says about Matthew 23:9


Matthew 23:9

"And call no man your Father ... - This does not, of course, forbid us to apply the term to our real father who we should respect and honour.

But the word “father” also denotes “authority, eminence, superiority, a right to command, and a claim to particular respect” and that is the sense in which it is used here and as our heavenly Father the title belongs eminently to God, and it is not right to give it to people.

Christian brethren are equal, this is why Paul addressed the crowd as brethren and fathers, you must take context into consideration which your strawman does not. Only God has supreme authority. Only He has a right to give laws; to declare doctrines that shall bind the conscience; to punish disobedience.

The Jewish teachers, (note the error) affected that title because they seem to have supposed that a teacher formed the man, or gave him real life, and sought, therefore, to be called father. Christ taught them that the source of all life and truth was God, and they ought not to seek or receive a title which properly belongs to Him."


Please don't trouble yourself with this error any further, it just confirms what is already known about Catholicism.

Oh but hang on a second, we never gave anyone God's supreme authority. And our priests and bishops and the pope are considered in the Catholic Church, as leaders among equals. I don't you understood any of what I put up. But never mind. You asked, and I answered. Peace, always, brother.

 

[7seven7]

You looked in the wrong place for the answers.

The Bible holds the answers.

All you are doing is allowing yourself to put on catholic glasses which are blinding you.

Do you really think that I'm going to understand the whole Bible myself without the guidance God has given me? These guys, priests, deacons and apologetics are teaching me through 2000 years of accumulated study, research and service to our Lord. Did you find anything wrong with what they wrote? I certainly didn't. About 2 weeks ago, when I was at class in this course I'm doing about Catholicism, I said to the Lord straight after class, "Lord, everything these guys are saying makes sense. What do You want me to do?" And before I even finished asking the question, He answered me "Listen to them." INSTANTLY!!! So I did. And I am. I have found no fault yet, and the Good Lord is guiding me because I'm too stupid to do it on my own. So if there is something wrong with what I'm being taught, HE WILL SHOW ME! BELIEVE ME!!! God bless.

 

[PS]

Hey now, I never claimed to come up with all this stuff myself. You asked me some questions about the Catholic Churches position on these questions, and I gave you the answers I found when I was researching myself, which are the reasons I saw the Catholic Church to be a True Church. I didn't copy and paste lol I tried to find it online so I could copy and paste, but wasn't successful. So I have been typing it all out word for word. All I gave you was the answers to your questions, exactly like I got them when I was asking the exact same questions about 6 months ago. Peace. Do you want the rest of the answers?

No thanks, don't trouble yourself, it was a rhetorical question intended to highlight the error of the Catholic church, visa-via their clerical dress, the adoration of Mary, the giving of the title "Father" to the priest, the making of images, the non-Biblical practice of infant baptism, the glorifying of Peter as the founder of the church instead of Christ, and the payment of indulgences so people can enter heaven.

No Thanks, none of that is Christianity, you follow a false religion.

 

[PS]

Oh but hang on a second, we never gave anyone God's supreme authority. And our priests and bishops and the pope are considered in the Catholic Church, as leaders among equals. I don't you understood any of what I put up. But never mind. You asked, and I answered. Peace, always, brother.

The priest or the pope is NOT your father, the title belongs to God and Him alone.

 

[7seven7]

No thanks, don't trouble yourself, it was a rhetorical question intended to highlight the error of the Catholic church, visa-via their clerical dress, the adoration of Mary, the giving of the title "Father" to the priest, the making of images, the non-Biblical practice of infant baptism, the glorifying of Peter as the founder of the church instead of Christ, and the payment of indulgences so people can enter heaven.

No Thanks, none of that is Christianity, you follow a false religion.

Ok, brother. But if anybody else would like to know the rest of the answers, please tell me and I will be more than happy to finish them. God bless.

 

[loveme1]

Do you really think that I'm going to understand the whole Bible myself without the guidance God has given me? These guys, priests, deacons and apologetics are teaching me through 2000 years of accumulated study, research and service to our Lord. Did you find anything wrong with what they wrote? I certainly didn't. About 2 weeks ago, when I was at class in this course I'm doing about Catholicism, I said to the Lord straight after class, "Lord, everything these guys are saying makes sense. What do You want me to do?" And before I even finished asking the question, He answered me "Listen to them." INSTANTLY!!! So I did. And I am. I have found no fault yet, and the Good Lord is guiding me because I'm too stupid to do it on my own. So if there is something wrong with what I'm being taught, HE WILL SHOW ME! BELIEVE ME!!! God bless.

How do you know you are not being seduced?

 

[loveme1]

John 5

39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men. 42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there isone that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

7seven7 if i could receive the truth then why not you?

i read the Bible from beginning to end and listened to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

That's the problem. People do not study the word for themselves and only listen to what their priest or pastor say's. It's all there in black and white and why King James saw to it that every man could read and study to reproof the priest. Thank God that He rose Martin Luther to object.

 

[loveme1]

i do not propose you join any denomination but that you seek your Creator with a willing heart and you shall find Him.

 

[7seven7]

How do you know you are not being seduced?

Oh ye of little faith!!! If you only knew half of what the Lord has done in my life this past year, sister, you would see how I know. I leave ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM FOR EVIL IN MY LIFE, surrounding myself with righteousness, therefore surrounding myself with God. There is no room for seduction in my life anymore. I, through the help of the Holy Spirit, have brought two people back home to the Almighty, in prison, and through my actions try to show people that NOTHING IN THIS WORLD MATTERS COMPARED TO WHAT OUR LORD DID FOR US. All that you spiteful people can do is try and judge me and rubbish my faith. Don't think for a second I don't see it all coming. Peace! And bless you. You are always in my prayers, along with the muslims, athiests, Christians and saints.

 

[mark54]

Ok, brother. But if anybody else would like to know the rest of the answers, please tell me and I will be more than happy to finish them. God bless.

I will say this. You are right that there are Christians and those who are not Christians in all denominations

I know one of the main reasons your denomination is attacked is because people perceive it as 'a works based doctrine'

I grew up in a Protestant church as far away from yours doctrinally as you can get, yet, in truth, if ever I heard a works based doctrine preached it was there. You don't have to preach, rite ,ritual and ceremony to proclaim a works based doctrine, far from it.
I don't write this to defend your denomination, or to attack it, just to state what is the truth.