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Spokenpassage

Guest
#21
#21
doseofreality said:
Or as a calvinist would say....they repent and believe because they are forgiven :)
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Or as a Calvinist would say.....we repent and believe because of God's amazing grace and relentless love. :)
 
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doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#22
Dec 9, 2013
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#22
Spokenpassage said:
Doseofreality, God is all sovereign, but the present sin in the world does not violate His sovereignty. If there wasn't evil present in the world, then it wouldn't be a choice in worshipping Him while in Him.

Evil is the absence of Good.
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wait thats not what i said, I agree the fact that sin and evil are in the world do not violate God's sovereignty.
But you can't say that God is not the author or the cause of sin and evil or in any way absolve Him from His responsibility for allowing sin and evil into the world.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#23
#23
doseofreality said:
wait thats not what i said, I agree the fact that sin and evil are in the world do not violate God's sovereignty.
But you can't say that God is not the author or the cause of sin and evil or in any way absolve Him from His responsibility for allowing sin and evil into the world.
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God is not the author of something that is in complete rebellion. If He made sin, then it wouldn't be sin. Sin is the disobedience of God.

God has a holy law, against His rule and commandments is sin. How can sin be sin if it obeyed in being created?
 
doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#24
Dec 9, 2013
753
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#24
Spokenpassage said:
God is not the author of something that is in complete rebellion. If He made sin, then it wouldn't be sin. Sin is the disobedience of God.

God has a holy law, against His rule and commandments is sin. How can sin be sin if it obeyed in being created?
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ok again we are in agreement.

Basically "sin" is disobeying God or doing something that God would not want us to do. right?

Now if God is totally sovereign, then NOTHING can occur out of His will. Thus if one was to disobey or "sin", then that would be God's will thus He allowed it to be, He wanted it to happen thus He would be the ultimate author of it.

You can't have it both ways
Is God totally sovereign OR is God not the author of sin/evil ?
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#25
#25
doseofreality said:
ok again we are in agreement.

Basically "sin" is disobeying God or doing something that God would not want us to do. right?

Now if God is totally sovereign, then NOTHING can occur out of His will. Thus if one was to disobey or "sin", then that would be God's will thus He allowed it to be, He wanted it to happen thus He would be the ultimate author of it.

You can't have it both ways
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Man, you should study Divine Providence, it might help you on your journey on understanding God's sovereignty. :)

So yes it is God's will for sin to exist, but that still doesn't make Him the author of it.

Sin is more like a tool used in God's sovereign will, if you understand what I mean. Just as God used the wicked men to crucify Jesus. Yet it was their choice, yet God ordained it.

This is why we cannot comprehend His Will to the fullest my friend. :)
 
doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#26
Dec 9, 2013
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#26
Spokenpassage said:
Man, you should study Divine Providence, it might help you on your journey on understanding God's sovereignty. :)

So yes it is God's will for sin to exist, but that still doesn't make Him the author of it.

Sin is more like a tool used in God's sovereign will, if you understand what I mean. Just as God used the wicked men to crucify Jesus. Yet it was their choice, yet God ordained it.

This is why we cannot comprehend His Will to the fullest my friend. :)
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I see what you are saying but in my opinion I don't see the difference.

Seems like a game of semantics and wordplay to rationalize an inherit contradiction in Gods character.

I guess we will agree to disagree at this point.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#27
#27
doseofreality said:
I see what you are saying but in my opinion I don't see the difference.

Seems like a game of semantics and wordplay to rationalize an inherit contradiction in Gods character.

I guess we will agree to disagree at this point.
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There is no contradiction, just a misunderstanding my friend :)
 
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IntoTheVoid

Banned
#28
Sep 14, 2013
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#28
Spokenpassage said:
Doseofreality, God is all sovereign, but the present sin in the world does not violate His sovereignty. If there wasn't evil present in the world, then it wouldn't be a choice in worshipping Him while in Him.

Evil is the absence of Good.
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There isn't a choice in worshipping him though. He has made it that I find it impossible to believe. So in fact he is taking away my free will to choose to follow him by making sure there is a distinct lack of evidence.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#29
#29
IntoTheVoid said:
There isn't a choice in worshipping him though. He has made it that I find it impossible to believe. So in fact he is taking away my free will to choose to follow him by making sure there is a distinct lack of evidence.
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So you will prove my point :p

If it is impossible for you to believe, then what does that mean?

Doseofreality can answer this one.
 
doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#31
Dec 9, 2013
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#31
IntoTheVoid said:
It means he doesn't exist.
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Agreed.

However, it also means according to the doctrine of total depravity that since it is impossible for you to believe, then only God can save you with His grace. Your salvation is completely dependent on God's choice.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#32
#32
IntoTheVoid said:
It means he doesn't exist.
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Lol if you are able to believe, I dare you to, believe the bible, the gospel, God as much as the sun rises from day to day.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#33
#33
doseofreality said:
Agreed.

However, it also means according to the doctrine of total depravity that since it is impossible for you to believe, then only God can save you with His grace. Your salvation is completely dependent on God's choice.
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Haha I dare you to believe as well, are you able to believe it more than reality itself?
 
doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#34
Dec 9, 2013
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#34
Spokenpassage said:
Haha I dare you to believe as well, are you able to believe it more than reality itself?
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Sorry but you can't dare someone into belief. Its either believable or not.

Reality is more believable because it has vast more evidence supporting it.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#36
#36
doseofreality said:
Sorry but you can't dare someone into belief. Its either believable or not.

Reality is more believable because it has vast more evidence supporting it.
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What are you showing me right now :p

But heck dose, I don't think it's by accident your on this site. God might be doing a mighty work in your life, you aren't ready to understand or 'believe' it yet.

God loves you man!
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#37
#37
IntoTheVoid said:
How about I dare you to believe in Zeus or Ganesh?
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You mean a myth that it's place origin is now christian? Please do tell me, which is easier to believe Zeus or God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
 
doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#39
Dec 9, 2013
753
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#39
Spokenpassage said:
What are you showing me right now :p

But heck dose, I don't think it's by accident your on this site. God might be doing a mighty work in your life, you aren't ready to understand or 'believe' it yet.

God loves you man!
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No its not by accident, Its because I typed in "christian chat rooms" in google a few months ago :)

Seriously though, I know you mean well but I've already been down that road.
You may pray for me if you like but I have no intention of believing unless a ton of evidence for the Christian God springs forth.

The only way I know God loves me is because the Bible tells me so.... and the bible is true because God says so....
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#40
#40
doseofreality said:
No its not by accident, Its because I typed in "christian chat rooms" in google a few months ago :)

Seriously though, I know you mean well but I've already been down that road.
You may pray for me if you like but I have no intention of believing unless a ton of evidence for the Christian God springs forth.

The only way I know God loves me is because the Bible tells me so.... and the bible is true because God says so....
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Remember Dose, Divine providence...your choices could most likely be all planned out. I don't think God is finished with you, somehow I feel like you weren't meant to be forgotten as we all shouldn't of course. :)

God loves you man!
 
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