-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
O
You seem to not even read the verses you post. Matthew 24;29-31 tells us that the coming of the lord is after the Tribulation and then the verse you quote show that those that are taken are not taken until the coming of the Lord which is after the tribulation.
Mat 24:38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mat 24:40Then two [men] will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
This all happen at the coming of the Lord which is after the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Can you not see it? As far as what the wrath is Jesus tells us that as well it is the destruction of the wicked by fire of which we will be removed before.
Matthew3:12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Here we see the removal of the wheat and then the immediate destruction of the chaff by fire.
Luke 17:28-30
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Once again we see the removal of the righteous and then the immediate destruction of the wicked by fire.
2nd Thess 1:7-9
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
A 3rd time we see that the righteous receive rest the very moment Jesus is returning to unleash the wrath on the wicked.
Now remember this isn't a prolonged 7 years portion of wrath, it is immediate and swift destruction by fire that the wicked receive the very moment the righteous are removed at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ.
Mat 24:38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Mat 24:40Then two [men] will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
This all happen at the coming of the Lord which is after the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Can you not see it? As far as what the wrath is Jesus tells us that as well it is the destruction of the wicked by fire of which we will be removed before.
Matthew3:12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Here we see the removal of the wheat and then the immediate destruction of the chaff by fire.
Luke 17:28-30
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Once again we see the removal of the righteous and then the immediate destruction of the wicked by fire.
2nd Thess 1:7-9
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
A 3rd time we see that the righteous receive rest the very moment Jesus is returning to unleash the wrath on the wicked.
Now remember this isn't a prolonged 7 years portion of wrath, it is immediate and swift destruction by fire that the wicked receive the very moment the righteous are removed at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ.
O
I do not know what this has to do with this subject? Nor do I understand what you are trying to dispute, or why you feel the need to dispute. Scripture teaches the Historical Premillenniual view, it is what Jesus taught, what Paul taught, what John the Apostle taught, what John the Apostles disciples taught to the early church, and once again what scripture teaches. Why would you feel the need to dispute God's word?
lets see, i think the one who likes to debate and aruge is you Onwings. It seems as though you are trying so hard to get people to see things your way, why is that? I can see, and you know what i have seen, this is what you wrote earlier today , these are your words, read carfully....
As to whether or not God will allow Christians to go through the tribulation or not, there are a few points that can be made.
#1 The tribulation itself is not the wrath of God.
um, now Onwings, i think you are not reading the word correct, because all those verses i gave you today, all confirm that the end times is God's wrath, and the bible clearly says, God's wrath is not for His children. So what is it that you are not seeing? Would you like the verses agian, or would you like to scroll back. The whole point to God's wrath Onwings, is that you are telling all of Christian chat, and other people that we will go through the tribulation. The Tribulation in the old testament and in the new talk about the Wrath of God. If God has spoken than my friend in His living word and says that HIs wrath is not for us, than why would i or anyone else belive we would go through it? Do you understand my Brother? I'm not going to argue with you, im simply giving scriptures that allowes your self and others to see, that We are not going to suffer the wrath of God if we are in fact saved, Born Again Christians.
As to whether or not God will allow Christians to go through the tribulation or not, there are a few points that can be made.
#1 The tribulation itself is not the wrath of God.
um, now Onwings, i think you are not reading the word correct, because all those verses i gave you today, all confirm that the end times is God's wrath, and the bible clearly says, God's wrath is not for His children. So what is it that you are not seeing? Would you like the verses agian, or would you like to scroll back. The whole point to God's wrath Onwings, is that you are telling all of Christian chat, and other people that we will go through the tribulation. The Tribulation in the old testament and in the new talk about the Wrath of God. If God has spoken than my friend in His living word and says that HIs wrath is not for us, than why would i or anyone else belive we would go through it? Do you understand my Brother? I'm not going to argue with you, im simply giving scriptures that allowes your self and others to see, that We are not going to suffer the wrath of God if we are in fact saved, Born Again Christians.
O
You are wrong and clearly deceived and what is even more sad is that you seem to be happy with your ignorance, not willing to even consider if what you have been taught could be false or not. I feel bad for you, yes it is really sad.
P.S. no one was arguing until you inserted yourself into this thread.
P.S. no one was arguing until you inserted yourself into this thread.
O
Revelation 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
If the coming quickly in Rev 2:16 is opost trib then we know that the coming quickly in Rev 3:11 is post trib. So would God tells us we are going to be raptrured pretrib in Rev 3:10 and then tells to hold fast until the post trib 2nd coming in the very next verse? Of course not so where have you gone wrong Olive? John 17:15 should clear ity up.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
So Jesus' own prayer is that we will not be taken out of the world God can keep us from evil and or temptation without removing us from the earth, and just so you know that when Jesus prayed this He was speaking of all believers check out verse 20
John17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
So we know for a fact that Revelation 3:10 is not referring to the pretrib rapture because #1 Jesus toells us to hold fast until the post trib 2nd coming in the very next verse and #2 it would go against the very prayer of Jesus to remove from the earth before His 2nd coming.
yea, its funny how you go around things Onwings, i pray for you brother and am sorry for you. Not only have i read how you talk to other people in here, but me as well, and i don't like it. I think if you want to correct people , or give information, you need to use another approach. Your attacking others does not work. You can't even have a simple debate or conversation, withought trying to prove other people wrong. Are you ok Brother? I know God takes are writtings very serious, for all of us, and i don't have to convince people onwings, thats the job of the holy spirit. I can share the word with others who will recieive it, but its the holy spirit who convicts the world of sin. I also like how you went around the whole wrath thing Onwings, totally ignoring what i posted. I mean, this was meant to be a Civil conversation. If you want to post things in the futer and want repsonses, why not take the time to respond and not go around a subject. We are all adults here.
O
Anyone that reads this thread will see that we were having a nice conversation about ''Historical Premillenialism'' until you came in with your snide attitude atacking 1 portion of the belief, instead of looking at the subject as a whole. You are so emamered with the idea of esacpism, that you will not consider anything outside of the pretrib lie. Do not feel sad for me I am on God's side, and the truths side. People like you are very cultish in your ideas worshiping and the doctrine of the pretrib rapture over the truth, over God Himself. You really should be more open minded to what others have found in scripture, instead of closing your mind off to anything you didn't learn in Sunday School. I had a discipleship teacher say one time (when I was first saved and didn't know enough to realize what she was saying at the time) I will not sereve a God that would let me go through the Tribulation. She was no christian, she did not serve the God of the Bible, but some god she had created in her own mind. I believe you are the same serving a fictional god you have created in your own mind. I will be praying for you.
The Bible tells us 2 main things about when the resurrection and or rapture takes place.
#1 The 2nd coming if after the Triblation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
#2 The resurrection and rapture are at the 2nd coming.
1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward that they are Christ's at his coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the
clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.
If #1 the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation and #2 the rapture is at the 2nd coming (which we know is true becase the Bible says it is) then we know #3 that the rapture has to be after the Tribulation as well
Now that being said this thread is not a debate thread nor a thread about the pre or post trib rapture. It was supposed to be a discussion on Historical Premillennialism. If you do not have anything of substance to add to this thread, could you maybe post in another thread or start a thread of your own where you can discuss whatever you want to discuss?
P.S. My wife read some of you posts and to be honest her heart was broken for you, you really need prayer, it is a good thing my wife is such a wonderful prayer warrior, I hope her prayers bless you somehow.
The Bible tells us 2 main things about when the resurrection and or rapture takes place.
#1 The 2nd coming if after the Triblation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
#2 The resurrection and rapture are at the 2nd coming.
1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward that they are Christ's at his coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the
clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.
If #1 the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation and #2 the rapture is at the 2nd coming (which we know is true becase the Bible says it is) then we know #3 that the rapture has to be after the Tribulation as well
Now that being said this thread is not a debate thread nor a thread about the pre or post trib rapture. It was supposed to be a discussion on Historical Premillennialism. If you do not have anything of substance to add to this thread, could you maybe post in another thread or start a thread of your own where you can discuss whatever you want to discuss?
P.S. My wife read some of you posts and to be honest her heart was broken for you, you really need prayer, it is a good thing my wife is such a wonderful prayer warrior, I hope her prayers bless you somehow.
- Status