Honest Assessment of Tongues

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I

Is

Guest
#1
#1
When Jesus commissioned the eleven to - Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15

He said - these signs shall follow them. (v.17)

In His name they would:

1). Cast out devils
2). Speak with new tongues
3). Take up serpents
4). Drink any deadly thing without hurt
5). Lay hands on the sick and heal them

The Lord gave signs to eleven Jewish apostles to confirm they were speaking His words (verse 20 says the Lord was working with them). You could call it a five-fold ministry of manifestations. To claim a sixth would be un-Biblical.

To claim to be able to heal but not be able to drink anything without it hurting them would violate the words of Jesus in Mark 16.

To claim that one has been given the apostolic sign of speaking in tongues but not the other four signs would be contrary to what the text of Mark 16 ACTUALLY SAYS.

So can anyone that claims they speak in tongues tell me if they possess the other four?
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#2
#2
This has been handled before and the Apostle Paul clearly says not all believers will be given the same gifts.

Apostle Paul said he wishes we would all speak in tongues, but then went on an said he would rather we receive the gift of prophecy instead. Not all will speak in tongues that are believers just like not all will prophecy, and not all will heal as well.

I have seen the power of healing work through me by the Holy Spirit a couple of times, but I have never spoken in tongues.
I do not disagree they still exist and some do get this gift but the bible clearly says not all will have this gift.
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#3
#3
1). Cast out devils
2). Speak with new tongues
3). Take up serpents
4). Drink any deadly thing without hurt
5). Lay hands on the sick and heal them

1,2,5 I believe and I do in fath. 3... I hate snakes but if I am ever bit by a serpent I sincerely hope the spirit will override my fleshly horror and I enable me to SHAKE IT OFF, and proceed on. The scripture says we are not to TEMPT God, so I will not intentionally drink poison, but who knows if I haven't done so already unknowingly... hmmmm?
 
F

F-S-H

Banned
#4
Jul 25, 2015
36
0
0
#4
Like your salvation you will only see happen what you believe will happen. You believed for you salvation and you recieved it. If you believe God heals you will see that. If you believe no deadly poison can harm you then it wont.
Its not a matter of who gets these gifts its a matter of do you believe what God says or not.
 
L

LT

Guest
#5
#5
The issue with the assertion of the OP is that the "five fold ministry" is not given as an all or none gift.
Romans 12 and 1st Corinthians 12 make that very clear.
Not all 5 follow each individual. Each are administered gifts. Some are given many, some are given few.

About the widespread false tongues spoken today, they cannot be countered by this specific line of reasoning.
Also, the signs are not ministry. They are signs. The phrase "5 fold ministry" is itself a misinformation, because it counts the signs as if they are ministries.
 
L

LT

Guest
#6
#6
F-S-H said:
Like your salvation you will only see happen what you believe will happen. You believed for you salvation and you recieved it. If you believe God heals you will see that. If you believe no deadly poison can harm you then it wont.
Its not a matter of who gets these gifts its a matter of do you believe what God says or not.
Click to expand...
These gifts are given upon the Will and Purpose of God. It is not of man's force of will that is the causation.
If that was the case, then it is the blind man's fault that he remains blind. Jesus said specifically that it is NOT that man's fault.

Modern perception of Faith and belief are very misconstrued. They are not the same as, or even similar, to willpower.
 
F

F-S-H

Banned
#7
Jul 25, 2015
36
0
0
#7
Yeah I would need some scripture to back up your opinion thanks
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#8
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#8
Is said:
When Jesus commissioned the eleven to - Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15

He said - these signs shall follow them. (v.17)

In His name they would:

1). Cast out devils
2). Speak with new tongues
3). Take up serpents
4). Drink any deadly thing without hurt
5). Lay hands on the sick and heal them

The Lord gave signs to eleven Jewish apostles to confirm they were speaking His words (verse 20 says the Lord was working with them). You could call it a five-fold ministry of manifestations. To claim a sixth would be un-Biblical.

To claim to be able to heal but not be able to drink anything without it hurting them would violate the words of Jesus in Mark 16.

To claim that one has been given the apostolic sign of speaking in tongues but not the other four signs would be contrary to what the text of Mark 16 ACTUALLY SAYS.

So can anyone that claims they speak in tongues tell me if they possess the other four?
Click to expand...
Jesus did not say that these signs were only for the Apostles, nor did He say that all who believe would experience all the signs. He said that the signs would 'follow those who believe'. In other words among believers these signs would be experienced, one sign by one, another by another. It as not a promise that all would experience signs. It was simply a promise that as His people went out in His Name the signs would be experienced among them. It is veryunwise to try to bind God by our interpretations.
 
L

LT

Guest
#9
#9
There are many Believers who are in suffering.
Paul himself said that he pleaded to the Lord to remove an infirmity from him, and yet God's response to his plea was "my Grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness".

Did Paul not have enough Faith to be healed?
No. God just had a different plan.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#10
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#10
Is said:
When Jesus commissioned the eleven to - Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15

He said - these signs shall follow them. (v.17)

In His name they would:

1). Cast out devils
2). Speak with new tongues
3). Take up serpents
4). Drink any deadly thing without hurt
5). Lay hands on the sick and heal them

The Lord gave signs to eleven Jewish apostles to confirm they were speaking His words (verse 20 says the Lord was working with them). You could call it a five-fold ministry of manifestations. To claim a sixth would be un-Biblical.

To claim to be able to heal but not be able to drink anything without it hurting them would violate the words of Jesus in Mark 16.

To claim that one has been given the apostolic sign of speaking in tongues but not the other four signs would be contrary to what the text of Mark 16 ACTUALLY SAYS.

So can anyone that claims they speak in tongues tell me if they possess the other four?
Click to expand...
that last part of Mark 16 where these things are listed... it probably wasn't part of Mark's original...
 
F

F-S-H

Banned
#11
Jul 25, 2015
36
0
0
#11
You and most other are saying Paul was sick. Were does the bible say Paul was sick?

Ps and why are you jumping over to sickness when we were discussing gifts?
 
L

LT

Guest
#12
#12
There is so much misinformation in the Church about spiritual gifts, signs, and about Faith.
Cherry picking verses is part of the problem, but pride is the root. People want to be in control.
 
L

LT

Guest
#13
#13
F-S-H said:
You and most other are saying Paul was sick. Were does the bible say Paul was sick?

Ps and why are you jumping over to sickness when we were discussing gifts?
Click to expand...
You had brought up healing in post 4.
Regardless of the specific problem,
whether sickness or handicap or interpersonal problem,
God did not remove the thorn. It's not that Paul's Faith was lacking, but that God's Plan and Power is perfected through the weakness.

The modern faith formulas given as means of obtaining gifts and miracles are not Biblical. Our willpower is not what allows or prevents the movement of God. God is Almighty and Sovereign.
 
F

F-S-H

Banned
#14
Jul 25, 2015
36
0
0
#14
LT said:
You had brought up healing in post 4.
Regardless of the specific problem,
whether sickness or handicap or interpersonal problem,
God did not remove the thorn. It's not that Paul's Faith was lacking, but that God's Plan and Power is perfected through the weakness.

The modern faith formulas given as means of obtaining gifts and miracles are not Biblical. Our willpower is not what allows or prevents the movement of God. God is Almighty and Sovereign.
Click to expand...
So why are you adding to scripture in front of so many ? You said

Did Paul not have enough Faith to be healed?
No. God just had a different plan.
Click to expand...
And now you say God had another plan. Do you have scripture for that or is that just your opinion aswell?

And I never said our will power you did.
 
F

F-S-H

Banned
#16
Jul 25, 2015
36
0
0
#16
LTs Opinion. I already licked your post
 
L

LT

Guest
#17
#17
F-S-H said:
So why are you adding to scripture in front of so many ? You said



And now you say God had another plan. Do you have scripture for that or is that just your opinion aswell?

And I never said our will power you did.
Click to expand...
As for the first part, what did I add? Do explain your complaint.

Second part: What part of God's Plan is in question?
Paul pleaded. God denied the request.
No opinion was stated.

Yes, I used the word willpower. But it's what you were describing when you used the word "believe".
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#18
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#18
Is said:
When Jesus commissioned the eleven to - Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15

He said - these signs shall follow them. (v.17)

In His name they would:

1). Cast out devils
2). Speak with new tongues
3). Take up serpents
4). Drink any deadly thing without hurt
5). Lay hands on the sick and heal them

The Lord gave signs to eleven Jewish apostles to confirm they were speaking His words (verse 20 says the Lord was working with them). You could call it a five-fold ministry of manifestations. To claim a sixth would be un-Biblical.

To claim to be able to heal but not be able to drink anything without it hurting them would violate the words of Jesus in Mark 16.

To claim that one has been given the apostolic sign of speaking in tongues but not the other four signs would be contrary to what the text of Mark 16 ACTUALLY SAYS.

So can anyone that claims they speak in tongues tell me if they possess the other four?
Click to expand...
. . And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [SUP]18 [/SUP]They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.


the "if" in this verse should be understood in "they shall take up serpents" . . . so it would read - "if" they take up serpents, "if" they drink any deadly thing - it shall not hurt them -

It is written thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God so to intentionally pick up a serpent or to intentionally drink any deadly thing thinking - thinking it will not harm you when that is the natural inclination of a snake and a poison - would be to tempt God. There is an example of Paul accidentally picking up a snack in Acts 28:3 when gathering sticks for a fire -
And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. and he shook off the beast into the fire and felt no harm. Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god. Acts 28:3-6

Also it needs to be understood that it is questionable as to the authenticity of Mark 16:9-20 because earliest manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have these verses. [NOTE: NIV - Some manuscripts have the following ending between verses 8 and 9, and one manuscript has it after verse 8 (omitting vs. 9-20): then they quickly reported all these instructions to those around Peter. After this, Jesus himself also sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. Amen.]
 
L

LT

Guest
#19
#19
The Scripture clearly states that Faith is required to obtain gifts, receive healing, and perform signs and miracles.
The Scripture does not say that if you believe it, then you have it.
It is the requirement, not the cause.

It also doesn't say that you as an individual will be given ALL the gifts. The gifts are apportioned/administered. The Word never says all-or-none.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#20
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#20
I've always found it interesting that there is only one phrase in this entire passage that contains an "IF." All the rest are directives about what believers SHALL do.

17 And these signs shall ]follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Does anyone here think that was just an accidental coincidence?
 
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