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How dare you, sir? As a pastor, you of all people should be focused on making sure ALL people of ALL walks of life can read and understand the bible, yet you view any translation that is not your precious KJV, which you can't even type right, as perverted.
You would dare put a rock in the path of an honest seeker of the Word of G-d, simply to fit your traditionalist, dogmatic views of Scripture? The KJV may be easy for YOU to understand, but you are you to judge all the people of this earth? Not all people find the KJV easy to understand. In fact, most people find the KJV too complicated to understand. Yet you, a pastor, sit there and tell them that if they read any version but the KJV they are reading a perversion?
Shame on you, sir.
You would dare put a rock in the path of an honest seeker of the Word of G-d, simply to fit your traditionalist, dogmatic views of Scripture? The KJV may be easy for YOU to understand, but you are you to judge all the people of this earth? Not all people find the KJV easy to understand. In fact, most people find the KJV too complicated to understand. Yet you, a pastor, sit there and tell them that if they read any version but the KJV they are reading a perversion?
Shame on you, sir.
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BUt let's stick with the facts which is the truth, The KJB or KJV as you like to say, was the AUTHORIZED ENGLISH BIBLE for almost 400 years now, they have found a manuscript known as the dead sea scrolls that pre-date all other manuscripts, which by legal rights would be closest to the orginal so thus they started translating our new modern day translations from these manuscriptes. the problem with this is, that the dead sea scrolls were so old they had been exposed to the sea salt air, and were very brittle to say the least, huge chunks of scriptures were missing and instead filling in the missing parts by way of using the majority text which got it's name because it was used, approved to be used in 99% of english translstions up to that point they also used the minority manuscripts which had been deemed as corrupt, by anyone who knew anything about manuscripture at the time, so Now we have most of the translations coming up the oldest text that was destoried in a lot of places by scriptures actually missing, and they fill in the gaps with corrupt text, now in order to sell this new product,thay had to prove that is was new and improve, so they attacked the word of God, the Bible that people had known for almost 350 years, and it is still under attack, as we can cleary see i here so if it seems evil for you to think that God who, there is nothing to hard for, can not preserve His word, His true word, by giving us a very good english transaltion, then believe what ye will, but as far as my house we will trust inthe Lord and His promises
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N
I must of missed that verse that promised that God would preserve His word exclusively through the KJV. You're comitting an anachronistic fallacy in that translation should be done to line up with a later translation like the KJV as opposed to using a wealth of resources, including those earlier manuscripts.
What you're going to come up with in terms of real differences is pretty minor, anyway, which is not merely English not being stuck in the Elizabethan age.
And, if you prefer something that still uses the TR/MJ as its primary source, you can always get an NKJV.
I've never understood this slavish devotion to a late translation whose composers themselves spoke of the need of continual translation into the "vulgar" tongue. Using it to attack people is even stranger. I mean do you really think the Vulgate itself is inspired and that where the KJV borrows from it things should not at least be looked at?
Is there some substantive complaint that you have that cannot be resolved by looking at the biblical launguages very quickly and showing that both heavens and heaven are a legitimate translation and do not really affect meaning?
It's one thing to be comfortable and well served by the KJV. It's quite another to turn it into a litmus test for true Christianity.
What you're going to come up with in terms of real differences is pretty minor, anyway, which is not merely English not being stuck in the Elizabethan age.
And, if you prefer something that still uses the TR/MJ as its primary source, you can always get an NKJV.
I've never understood this slavish devotion to a late translation whose composers themselves spoke of the need of continual translation into the "vulgar" tongue. Using it to attack people is even stranger. I mean do you really think the Vulgate itself is inspired and that where the KJV borrows from it things should not at least be looked at?
Is there some substantive complaint that you have that cannot be resolved by looking at the biblical launguages very quickly and showing that both heavens and heaven are a legitimate translation and do not really affect meaning?
It's one thing to be comfortable and well served by the KJV. It's quite another to turn it into a litmus test for true Christianity.
the dead sea scrolls were not available in 1611 How smart is that they refused to use manuscripts that weren't even available,
The Dead Sea Scrolls are a collection of about 900 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible, discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves in and around the ruins of the ancient settlement of Khirbet Qumran on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea in the present day West Bank.
you want to give us some more of your FACTS!!! the devotion is called our love for God and the Things of God
The Dead Sea Scrolls are a collection of about 900 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible, discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves in and around the ruins of the ancient settlement of Khirbet Qumran on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea in the present day West Bank.
you want to give us some more of your FACTS!!! the devotion is called our love for God and the Things of God
G
Thaddeus i am using the same manuscript you are
do you know any hebrew?
i do
Ha = the
Sha = high
may = water
im = plural
literally TheHighWaterS
if you have lived in Israel as I have you will know that you never find the Hebrew word for water(singular) but only the plural mayIM = waters
in english we say water singular but it is more literally waterdrops plural
I am telling YOU what YOUR(and MY) manuscript says
do you know any hebrew?
i do
Ha = the
Sha = high
may = water
im = plural
literally TheHighWaterS
if you have lived in Israel as I have you will know that you never find the Hebrew word for water(singular) but only the plural mayIM = waters
in english we say water singular but it is more literally waterdrops plural
I am telling YOU what YOUR(and MY) manuscript says
well i guess you know more about it than strong's , for I didn't write the definition but just pasted it from my Bible program, you are the man!!! when it comes to hebrew
[SIZE=+1]~ymX [/SIZE]Shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 8064
[SIZE=+1]~ymX [/SIZE]Shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 8064
- Heaven (as the abode of God)
To all that have stated that the authorized english, King James Version of the Holy Scripture, is not the word of God, and that being that the word of God can have no condradictions, Doctrinal errors ( not typos or incorrect placement of commas and or periods.) but doctrinal errors which would take away the Diety Of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, to all those who have researched this issue and determined that the KJV is full of errors and is no where close to the hebrew and greek manuscripts, that is was taken from, and have tried to prove that the new modern day so called bibles are better than the 400 year old true word of God the KJB, and in the process of proving this you have tried to discredit / Blaspheme the Holy Bible, I am not talking to someone who has just taken someone elses word on this issue, and have not done any type of study to prove either way, but are speaking out of ignorance( meaning unlearned, stop stupid), for we know that the Bible says that God winks at ignorance,
But to all these that have used any means to discredit the KJB I have a word Of God for you, I was talking with God this morning, and I said God I just can't understand why people want to disrespect your Holy word that we know as The King James Bible and God said to me Yeah I know,
" With friends like that
who needs enemies "
But to all these that have used any means to discredit the KJB I have a word Of God for you, I was talking with God this morning, and I said God I just can't understand why people want to disrespect your Holy word that we know as The King James Bible and God said to me Yeah I know,
" With friends like that
who needs enemies "
M
I believe the KJB to be the word of God, but so is the NIV, NASB, RSV, GNB and many others. What you need to realize is that the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. The ancient manuscripts recovered are an older version of the scriptures and are closer to the writing of the original writers. What is wrong with wanting to get the Word of God in English and trying to make it closer to what the original writers wrote? When I point out discrepancies in the KJB it is not to discredit it as the Word of God. It most certainly is the Word of God. But it is not the only acceptable translation. Those who have spent countless years recovering the ancient manuscripts and revising our English Bible's to be closer to the original text should be commended, not shunned. The problem I have with the view that the King James version is the only acceptable version of the English Bible, is that this view counters the efforts of Godly men to seek after the original text of the writers of the Bible.
There are people who have wholeheartedly spent their entire lives trying to recover and study Bible manuscripts who wholeheartedly want every believer to have the most accurate Bible in English that one could possibly have. I refuse to shun their efforts and to embrace a theology that hinders people from accessing more accurate representations of the Word of God.
So in summary, I have no intention of discrediting the KJB as the Word of God, but I will not spend time contributing to a debate that discourages people from studying what is a lot closer to the original text. You may disagree, that other versions of the Bible are closer to the original text. But I have studied this quite extensively. But I am not going to throw facts back in forth with you. There is no point.
What I can say is that comparing the KJB verses to other versions of the Bible doesn't prove anything except that the KJB has it's differences with other versions(like every other Bible has some minor differences). The determining factor is the original text or the manuscripts that we have that are the closest with the original text, not tradition. I can understand that you hold the view that God preserved the wording in the KJB, but isn't also possible that God preserves the same meanings in other translations as well? I have seen plenty of people radically changed and saved through other translations of the Bible.
Just today I heard a testimony from someone who wanted to learn how to read, and went to a library and picked up a NIV Bible. He asked a librarian friend of his to teach him how to read out of the Bible. By the end of their tutoring sessions of many months, both of them decided to make Jesus their Lord and Savior and decided to start attending church. This is without anyone instructing them or reaching them in evangelism. Jesus tells us in Matthew 12:33(KJV)
So a good tree can't produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can't produce good fruit. We judge something by it's fruit. The KJB has produced a lot of good fruit in the past, hence it is obviously good and from God. But so has other translations of the Bible. And of course there are other bibles that are heretical and have produced bad fruit.
Is God so limited that He can only express His ideas in what we consider a flawless representation of His Word? Well that would be bad for us because there is no such thing that we know of in existence. Unfortunately we don't have a completely flawless version of His Word. His Word is flawless, but the English translations we have are not. Yet God is still able, to preserve the meanings, ideas, instruction, and stories of scripture more than sufficiently through many different translations despite our flawed attempts to translate the scripture from one language to another.
We don't need to protect God's Word, God is more than capable of doing that. He even says He will preserve His word on His own in Isaiah 55:11(KJV)
So why are we so afraid of God's word being perverted? I understand the sanctity and Holiness of scripture. But why are we so focused on what other people do, rather than how we are becoming the living manifestation of the Word of God (Jesus)? When we focus on becoming the Word allowing it to transform us, we have no need for arguments and debates, because people will see the fruit in your life. Wouldn't this be a lot more helpful to others? Let God exalt you. We shouldn't feel the need to exalt ourselves above others.
Much Love & Respect,
Machew
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It's always word for word. But word for word is always worse than thought for thought. Because you can have the right words to 100% accuracy if you like, but if you don't understand the meaning, you may as well be reading the Quran. Consider this - most false denominations and false doctrines find supporting their argument much easier from word for word translations like the KJV. Because when a bible is clear on a set meaning, like in thought for thought, it is much harder to argue against it. Why do you think anyone from freemasons to Jehovah's witnesses to mormons to taoists use the KJV?
The KJV is the Word of G-d, but so are the other translations out there. Not a single one of them is perfect. If you want a perfect text, learn Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek. It's not difficult to do, G-d has blessed us with new, easier ways to learn the languages He had His Word written in.
But if you don't want to learn the original language, that's fine. You don't have to, just like people don't have to learn 1611 English to read the bible anymore because G-d has blessed us with equally holy translations that are easier to understand for people who can't read and understand the KJV like you can.
But if you don't want to learn the original language, that's fine. You don't have to, just like people don't have to learn 1611 English to read the bible anymore because G-d has blessed us with equally holy translations that are easier to understand for people who can't read and understand the KJV like you can.