How do I lose my SALVATION?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,574
13,551
113
58
Sealed also simply means marked. That does not necessarily mean sealed in a sense that you can not be lost. If one is saved they received the Holy Spirit for preservation and security. We always have a choice whether or not we will heed to the Spirit. There is a warning in the next chapter of the same letter in regards to what happens to those who do not take heed to the Spirit in which they have received for their preservation and security.
In Ephesians 4:30, we read that believers are sealed unto/for the day of redemption. In Ephesians 1:13, we read - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. So much for temporarily sealed.

In regards to preservation, in Psalm 37:28, we read - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. In Jude 1:1, we read - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ. Genuine believers heed to the Spirit and are preserved forever.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
(Eph 5:3-6 KJV)
If we do not heed to the Spirit we have NO INHERITANCE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND HIS CHRIST. But should expect the wrath of GOD due to our disobedience. Having not the Spirit of GOD any more So....Quench not the Spirit.
(1Th 5:19 KJV)
Where does the Bible say "unsealed" by the Holy Spirit? Do you teach salvation by sinless perfection?

In 1 Corinthians 6:9, we read - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 5:19 - Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

A little leavens the whole. How much sinning constitutes practicing; continuous action?
The idea of practice is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. This describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life without goal or effort to stop.. No repentance, just bring it on! Those who make a practice of sinning demonstrate that they have not been born of God. Yet believers are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time (1 John 1:8-2:1). Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

In context to the passage it does.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(Heb 10:14 KJV)
I'm glad you brought up Hebrews 10:14. If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as you teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) (y)

"Not of those who draw back to perdition (destruction)" One can not draw back to destruction unless one was delivered from it.
Not true. One can draw back to perdition instead of believing to the saving of the soul after one receives the knowledge of the truth, but instead of accepting the truth, rejects it. Such a person has been exposed to the truth but chooses to draw back to perdition instead of believing to the saving of the soul. The writer of Hebrews did not say they believed to the saving of the soul, then afterwards drew back to perdition, but instead draws a CONTRAST between those who draw back to perdition and those who believe to the saving of the soul.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
In Ephesians 4:30, we read that believers are sealed unto/for the day of redemption. In Ephesians 1:13, we read - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. So much for temporarily sealed.

In regards to preservation, in Psalm 37:28, we read - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. In Jude 1:1, we read - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ. Genuine believers heed to the Spirit and are preserved forever.

Where does the Bible say "unsealed" by the Holy Spirit? Do you teach salvation by sinless perfection?

In 1 Corinthians 6:9, we read - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 5:19 - Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The idea of practice is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. This describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life without goal or effort to stop.. No repentance, just bring it on! Those who make a practice of sinning demonstrate that they have not been born of God. Yet believers are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time (1 John 1:8-2:1). Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

I'm glad you brought up Hebrews 10:14. If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as you teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) (y)

Not true. One can draw back to perdition instead of believing to the saving of the soul after one receives the knowledge of the truth, but instead of accepting the truth, rejects it. Such a person has been exposed to the truth but chooses to draw back to perdition instead of believing to the saving of the soul. The writer of Hebrews did not say they believed to the saving of the soul, then afterwards drew back to perdition, but instead draws a CONTRAST between those who draw back to perdition and those who believe to the saving of the soul.
Good post!

John 10 :27-28 to my voice, I know them and they follow me. I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish neither :hall anyone snatch them out of my hand.

a. If we are Jesus sheep, we will hear/listen to His voice (present tense, continual)

b. This is evidence that we are truly His sheep. John 8:31

c. No one can snatch His sheep out of His Hand.

d. We are safe IN HIM.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
the bible says that every man that has this hope In him will seek to purify himself even as he Is pure so then how will he walk away,wouldn't the WORD of GOD stand as correct?
In order to understand that, you will have to understand how depraved we are by our nature. We all are tempted by our sinful nature and do things that we really do not want to do. Paul explains this in Gal 5:17.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
In order to understand that, you will have to understand how depraved we are by our nature. We all are tempted by our sinful nature and do things that we really do not want to do. Paul explains this in Gal 5:17.
But it also says "if we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. And the text in 1 John 3 does not say that we will seek to :purify ourselves, it says we DO purify ourselves. (see also 2 Cor. 7:1)

I am not advocating the belief in sinless perfection in this life, BUT I do believe, as MailmanDan said that if our heart is true, we will not practice sin indiscriminately and that they will be a continual and progressive growth in Christlikeness. We cannot say we are abiding in Him and abiding in rebellion at the same time. That is why Christians are commanded to ABIDE IN HIM
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
the same way there is NO CONDEMNATION to them who are IN CHRIST JESUS, there is also preservation IN CHRIST JESUS. The question is whether one is IN CHRIST JESUS or not.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
the same way there is NO CONDEMNATION to them who are IN CHRIST JESUS, there is also preservation IN CHRIST JESUS. The question is whether one is IN CHRIST JESUS or not.
Many profess that which they do not possess.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Simply; Yes. And as I quoted, A "true" Christian will know when they have lost it. Just like Judas.
So you are saying that Christ will cease to love some souls? I do not think that is possible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
So you are saying that Christ will cease to love some souls? I do not think that is possible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I
So you are saying that Christ will cease to love some souls? I do not think that is possible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus loved the rich young ruler who walked away. Not saying the ruler was saved, but God will love a person even though they choose destruction.

In other words, I'm only saying God's love is not what is in question here, not choosing a side in the OSAS debate. I'm good with security of the believer, which is different, but biblical
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
Jesus is not coming back to earth to set up his kingdom.
You claim to be believing and harmonizing the Scriptures, yet you are DENYING AND REJECTING a key Bible doctrine -- the Second Coming of Christ.

So in other words, you do not really believe God, but prefer to believe the doctrines of men. Even the Protestant creeds affirm the second coming of Christ.

The Apostles' Creed
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7.
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:

The Nicene Creed
He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

Back to the OP, the Eternal Security of the Believer is also a key Bible doctrine.
 

memyselfi

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2017
503
260
63
Are you asking about the denial (rooster crow) or Peter losing his salvation? After Christ's resurrection the women who visited the tomb to find it empty were given this message by the angel there. Look who is included by name. Peter probably felt that he had lost his salvation, but he was sent a message that included him. (as encouragement)

Mark 16:7
But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.’”
I am asking about losing his Salvation.... How could the man go on to write part of the New Testament if he lost his Salvation?
 

memyselfi

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2017
503
260
63
Simply; Yes. And as I quoted, A "true" Christian will know when they have lost it. Just like Judas.
Was Judas a "true" Christian how do you know he was ever saved or one of those who said "I called you Lord" but are not ever Saved?
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
I am asking about losing his Salvation.... How could the man go on to write part of the New Testament if he lost his Salvation?
Peter did not lose his salvation. Jesus prayed for him even before his lapse, that his faith would not fail, and instructed him to strengthen the brethren before his lapse and to feed his sheep afterwards

You don't lose your salvation and then get saved over and over again.

A Christian may lapse for a season, but that doesn't mean they lost their salvation. If any man sin (aorist, meaning a person who stumbles, not a person who carelessly and intentionally indulges in sin, which is what it means when the present tense is used in John), we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus, and God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse.

We are children, and a Father does not just throw His child away. But we can depart from Him. But He comes after us. But some may run for longer seasons bringing pain to God's heart, and trouble to themselves, and others.

But if we can sin carelessly, intentionally, and have no sorrow or remorse, and if we spend our lives not caring for the things of God, not walking after the Spirit, then we need to check ourselves. They that are Christ's have crucified the affections of the flesh, and we are slaves to whoever we serve and obey, whether the flesh, which leads to death or the Spirit which leads to life.

Sin when it is finished brings forth death. Do not err, beloved.

Be killing sin, or sin will be killing you. John Owen- The Mortification of the Flesh.

It will rob you of peace, joy, make you barren and unfruitful, and dry you up like a bone if you play around with it
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,574
13,551
113
58
Simply; Yes. And as I quoted, A "true" Christian will know when they have lost it. Just like Judas.
Who said Judas was a "true" Christian? The Bible refers to him as an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
You claim to be believing and harmonizing the Scriptures, yet you are DENYING AND REJECTING a key Bible doctrine -- the Second Coming of Christ.

So in other words, you do not really believe God, but prefer to believe the doctrines of men. Even the Protestant creeds affirm the second coming of Christ.

The Apostles' Creed
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7.
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:

The Nicene Creed
He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

Back to the OP, the Eternal Security of the Believer is also a key Bible doctrine.
Might I add the apostles creed gets that "come to judge the quick and the dead" from the BIBLE!

Its in Paul's writings to Timothy!:

2 Timothy 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Nehemiah what church do you attend, if any? PM me if you dont wanna say it in public!
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
Who said Judas was a "true" Christian? The Bible refers to him as an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).
A born again devil? Makes no sense.

Judas wasnt sheep!
 

Ignorun

Active member
Dec 18, 2018
180
69
28
I scuba and one of the things my dive buddy says to me "the deeper the water is, the more forgiveness there is",.... when it comes to buoyancy... He is right because if we dive water that is less than 60 feet, I put in too much air.... I am right to the surface.... and without decompression a person can get the bins....
According to statistics, the known depth or the sea/ ocean is 10,994 meters/36,070 feet.

This makes me think of the GREAT SCRIPTURE:
Micah 7:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot
and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.

G-d's Word holds true EVERY TIME! With that great of depth I would have been dead anyway... But even yet I still have time to equalize before hitting the surface... BECAUSE THERE IS ALWAYS FORGIVENESS!!!!

So why do people think G-d wants to send saved people to Hell an long with the people that rejected Him?

This has never made sense to me...

How do I lose my SALVATION?
You follow the OSAS doctrine.
Originated in garden of Eden from the devil himself "Thou shalt not die." Eve believed it.
OSAS produces a religion convenience.
Jesus said we must take up our cross daily and follow Him.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
A born again devil? Makes no sense.

Judas wasnt sheep!
You might want to review what you have said in this post since it aappears to be self-contradictory.

Judas was lost, he was the son of perdition, he is called a devil, and he went to his own place (Hades).

Jesus selected Judas with the full knowledge of who he was and how he would fulfil Scripture.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,320
1,449
113
I scuba and one of the things my dive buddy says to me "the deeper the water is, the more forgiveness there is",.... when it comes to buoyancy... He is right because if we dive water that is less than 60 feet, I put in too much air.... I am right to the surface.... and without decompression a person can get the bins....
According to statistics, the known depth or the sea/ ocean is 10,994 meters/36,070 feet.

This makes me think of the GREAT SCRIPTURE:
Micah 7:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 You will again have compassion on us;
you will tread our sins underfoot
and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.

G-d's Word holds true EVERY TIME! With that great of depth I would have been dead anyway... But even yet I still have time to equalize before hitting the surface... BECAUSE THERE IS ALWAYS FORGIVENESS!!!!

So why do people think G-d wants to send saved people to Hell an long with the people that rejected Him?

This has never made sense to me...

How do I lose my SALVATION?
God does not send saved people to hell. All those who believe in Jesus Christ go to heaven. All those who do not believe in Jesus Christ do not go to heaven. It is that simple.

How do I lose my SALVATION? Ask a different question . . . Ask - Am I believing in the blood atonement of Jesus Christ for my sins?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
I


Jesus loved the rich young ruler who walked away. Not saying the ruler was saved, but God will love a person even though they choose destruction.

In other words, I'm only saying God's love is not what is in question here, not choosing a side in the OSAS debate. I'm good with security of the believer, which is different, but biblical
If you are not saved in the first place you will never enter heaven. Many have only a mental ascent to Christ and not a belief wrought in Holy Spirit conviction.

For the cause of Christ
Roger