How do I Respond to Someone Claiming Doctrine is not Important?

[Matthew4Jesus]

Hi there,

I was having a chat to someone and I mentioned predestination. I pointed out some very strange, unsound arguments against it that had no biblical support.

Anyway, I was told in the end ''Doctrine Doesn't Matter', It's all about the Gospel and Saving Souls''.

I must say I disagree, since as I actually studied the word, for me, I believe how we understand God and his word is ESSENTIAL to our salvation.

Sure, some points may be non-salvational, but surely it's vital we understand as much as we can to get a big picture of God and his plan. Is it no important to understand that we are not here for ourselves, but for his glory?

What does scripture have to say on this?

 

[Nautilus]

Nah predsetination isn't good doctrine so there is that.

 

[oldhermit]

"He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he
can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it." Titus 1:9

"But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine." Titus 2:1

"If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed." 1Tim 4:6

"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions." 2Tim. 4:3
There are a host of other such passages.

 

[Matthew4Jesus]

Well thank-you for that, however, my question wasn't on that. I am asking on what the Lord says about the importance of good doctrine.

 

[Matthew4Jesus]

"He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he
can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it." Titus 1:9

"But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine." Titus 2:1

"If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed." 1Tim 4:6

"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions." 2Tim. 4:3
There are a host of other such passages.

Thank-you Old Hermit. 2 Timothy 4:3 Is a personal favorite of mine.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The doctrine of men is not important, as man tends to put his own twist on scripture. But those who are truly born of God shall know the difference.

John 7:17
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

 

[popeye]

Hi there,

I was having a chat to someone and I mentioned predestination. I pointed out some very strange, unsound arguments against it that had no biblical support.

Anyway, I was told in the end ''Doctrine Doesn't Matter', It's all about the Gospel and Saving Souls''.

I must say I disagree, since as I actually studied the word, for me, I believe how we understand God and his word is ESSENTIAL to our salvation.

Sure, some points may be non-salvational, but surely it's vital we understand as much as we can to get a big picture of God and his plan. Is it no important to understand that we are not here for ourselves, but for his glory?

What does scripture have to say on this?

Wow,you have depth for such a young guy.
Predestination is a rabbit trail in a sense,because it is a PIECE of a larger puzzle, not an all encompassing cornerstone singular doctrine. IOW it is partially true. "either <--> Or" being the snare of that dimension,when infact it is "BOTH"
We choose,but are also chosen.

 

[maxwel]

Is doctrine important?

1. We are told "mark them" which go against sound doctrine.
How are we to stay away from leaders with bad doctrine... if we don't study doctrine?
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

2. We are not to be blown around by every bit of weird doctrine we hear.
How can we avoid bad doctrine unless we learn the good doctrine?
Ephesian 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

3. Paul urges Timothy to tell people in his city to stop teaching bad doctrine.
Again, you don't know good doctrine from bad doctrine unless you study doctrine.
1Timothy 1:3
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

4. Paul commands Timothy to study doctrine.
1Timothy 4:13
Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

5. Paul commands Timothy again to pay attention to doctrine.
1Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

6. The elders of the churches are held in the highest honor BECAUSE they study doctrine.
1Ti 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

7. If anyone teaches a different doctrine, he is PROUD AND UNDERSTANDS NOTHING.
(Obviously doctrine is VERY important. Without it you understand nothing.)
1Timothy 6:3-4
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to thedoctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
This says if you don't pay attention to sound doctrine, you KNOW NOTHING.

One more time...
1 Timothy 6:3-4 states that if you don't pay attention to doctrine, you KNOW NOTHING.



There are many more verses on the importance of doctrine.

God says, over and over that it's vitally important.

 

[Jeff_56]

Hi there,
I was having a chat to someone and I mentioned predestination. I pointed out some very strange, unsound arguments against it that had no biblical support.
Anyway, I was told in the end ''Doctrine Doesn't Matter', It's all about the Gospel and Saving Souls''.
I must say I disagree, since as I actually studied the word, for me, I believe how we understand God and his word is ESSENTIAL to our salvation.
Sure, some points may be non-salvational, but surely it's vital we understand as much as we can to get a big picture of God and his plan. Is it no important to understand that we are not here for ourselves, but for his glory?
What does scripture have to say on this?

simple. no one has been saved by understanding or by studying SCRIPTURE/ TORAH.... much less then doctrine (of men and of demons).
oh, the study of GOD'S WORD is wonderful, life-giving, life-fulfilling, beautiful, refreshing, convicting, rewarding, and good in multitude of ways, yahweh willing,
but unless yahweh grants something from heaven, it is not received ("no man can receive anything unless yahweh grants it from heaven") ...
and perhaps for you now most important "unless a man is born again, he can never see anything spiritual",
and "unless a man becomes like a little child, he will never see the kingdom of yahweh",
and "if you think you can accomplish any part of salvation, you have already failed; but if you trust faithfully in yahweh and believe faithfully in him and rely on him, then your salvation is already accomplished(by yahweh)" (as JESUS told the discples directly).

as far as doctrines and other devices of men,
remember it is written "Yahweh made all things simple, man sought out many devices."

 

[atwhatcost]

Hi there,

I was having a chat to someone and I mentioned predestination. I pointed out some very strange, unsound arguments against it that had no biblical support.

Anyway, I was told in the end ''Doctrine Doesn't Matter', It's all about the Gospel and Saving Souls''.

I must say I disagree, since as I actually studied the word, for me, I believe how we understand God and his word is ESSENTIAL to our salvation.

Sure, some points may be non-salvational, but surely it's vital we understand as much as we can to get a big picture of God and his plan. Is it no important to understand that we are not here for ourselves, but for his glory?

What does scripture have to say on this?

Isn't that kind of up to you how you respond? I know I tend to roll my eyes, shake my head, and then consider whether the person is opened to hearing. But that's how I respond, not how you're supposed to.

 

[crossnote]

(Anyway, I was told in the end ''Doctrine Doesn't Matter', It's all about the Gospel and Saving Souls''.)

Sounds like doctrine to me.
I suppose the question should be 'whose doctrine?'... for everyone has doctrine, some worse than others.

 

[atwhatcost]

simple. no one has been saved by understanding or by studying SCRIPTURE/ TORAH.... much less then doctrine (of men and of demons).
oh, the study of GOD'S WORD is wonderful, life-giving, life-fulfilling, beautiful, refreshing, convicting, rewarding, and good in multitude of ways, yahweh willing,
but unless yahweh grants something from heaven, it is not received ("no man can receive anything unless yahweh grants it from heaven") ...
and perhaps for you now most important "unless a man is born again, he can never see anything spiritual",
and "unless a man becomes like a little child, he will never see the kingdom of yahweh",
and "if you think you can accomplish any part of salvation, you have already failed; but if you trust faithfully in yahweh and believe faithfully in him and rely on him, then your salvation is already accomplished(by yahweh)" (as JESUS told the discples directly).

as far as doctrines and other devices of men,
remember it is written "Yahweh made all things simple, man sought out many devices."

So salvation is it for you? Let's not deal with that messy sanctification business, or even glorification? Yeah. Okay. (I am now practicing what I told OP I do, but finally realize this is a person who is not opened to learn more.)

 

[dcontroversal]

The word doctrine means teaching and the bible is full of it......and it is even called GOOD....Jesus taught DOCTRINE, Paul taught doctrine....men can also substitute man's doctrine for God's doctrine....

Matthew 7:28, 16, 12, 22:33
Mark 1:22, 1:27,
John 7:16, 18:189
Acts 2:42, 13:12
Romans 6:17, 16:17
Hebrews 6:1-2

as well as 1st Corinthians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus, 2nd John, Ephesians, Colossians

 

[dcontroversal]

simple. no one has been saved by understanding or by studying SCRIPTURE/ TORAH.... much less then doctrine (of men and of demons).
oh, the study of GOD'S WORD is wonderful, life-giving, life-fulfilling, beautiful, refreshing, convicting, rewarding, and good in multitude of ways, yahweh willing,
but unless yahweh grants something from heaven, it is not received ("no man can receive anything unless yahweh grants it from heaven") ...
and perhaps for you now most important "unless a man is born again, he can never see anything spiritual",
and "unless a man becomes like a little child, he will never see the kingdom of yahweh",
and "if you think you can accomplish any part of salvation, you have already failed; but if you trust faithfully in yahweh and believe faithfully in him and rely on him, then your salvation is already accomplished(by yahweh)" (as JESUS told the discples directly).

as far as doctrines and other devices of men,
remember it is written "Yahweh made all things simple, man sought out many devices."

This has got to be one of the most ignorant statements that I have ever seen......dude you really should study scripture and the doctrines of Christ and Paul before you make a response like the one above.....

Re: How do I Respond to Someone Claiming Doctrine is not Important?

Now if you are saying that there is no doctrine and or good doctrine then keep reading, if you are just hammering the doctrines of men then I agree, but you are very vague with the way you throw the word doctrine around.......

The word doctrine means teaching and the bible is full of it......and it is even called GOOD....Jesus taught DOCTRINE, Paul taught doctrine....men can also substitute man's doctrine for God's doctrine....

Matthew 7:28, 16, 12, 22:33
Mark 1:22, 1:27,
John 7:16, 18:189
Acts 2:42, 13:12
Romans 6:17, 16:17
Hebrews 6:1-2

as well as 1st Corinthians, 1st and 2nd Timothy, Titus, 2nd John, Ephesians, Colossians


​

 

[maxwel]

(Anyway, I was told in the end ''Doctrine Doesn't Matter', It's all about the Gospel and Saving Souls''.)

Sounds like doctrine to me. I suppose the question should be 'whose doctrine?' for everyone has doctrine, some worse than others.

This is a really good point.

Doctrine just means "teachings" or "beliefs".

What a strange thing for someone to say they don't "believe" in "studying beliefs"!
How odd.
: )

This person obviously has a "belief"...
it's a belief that you shouldn't worry about your beliefs!
("Doctrine" just means beliefs.)

Since "doctrine" means our "beliefs"...
it is absurd, genuinely absurd, to say doctrine doesn't matter.
The moment we say that, we're saying "I believe that what I believe doesn't matter".
It's just silly and absurd.

People who say this stuff are nice people.
I'm not trying to beat them up.
I'm just saying it isn't good logic.

As believers of the Bible, we need to take our beliefs
(our "doctrines")
FROM the Bible.
Therefore, we need to study DOCTRINE in the BIBLE.

I'm really not trying to bash anybody.
It's just that we need to be logical and sensible.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Doctrine is GOOD and Sound Doctrine is even better.. doctrine hurled out there by carnal religous man is just that carnal, condemning, no life , dry... Doctrine which is Revealed and taught to His Own.. via the Paraclete, the Spirit of Truth. Is GOOD SOUND doctrine.. carnal man takes and holds out his religious doctine.. absent of the Spirit of Truth.. .VERY EVIDENT today. on here even.. the Spirit of Truth will Teach the Genuine convert the Correct Doctrine.. 'rightly diving the Word of Truth'. how does one 'discern the Spirit of Truth is present? 1 John 4.. every spirit that Confesses that Jesus Christ come in the flesh.. is 'BORN' of God.. many confess Jesus.. which Jesus ? they never confess the One who Redeemed them is God manifest in the flesh.. thus the spirit of error posing as 'light'. even some 'bible translations leave that 'out'.. how prevalent and cunning for these times.. smh.. and No 'Marvel for satan himself is transformed into a minister of righteousness'---- he's been very active lately.. and there are many of 'his' sowing error.. all over the place..!

 

[Jeff_56]

do as you say- stick with SCRIPTURE. 'doctrine' and 'teaching' and lessons and life and truth in SCRIPTURE is true,
((doctrine's of CHRIST and of paul(of CHRIST)(simply SCRIPTURE) are truth , and right and good))
((but not practiced in almost any chruch))((TEST EVERYTHING))


but IF you have, as it looks like from your posts(many), trusting in some of man's doctrine that is opposed to SCRIPTURE,
then you're in error.

IF you don't trust any man's doctrine and teaching, any which is opposed to SCRIPTURE, then you're okay.(or at least concerning this it would seem so).

in the ekklesia, there's nothing controversial about rejecting everything that is not from YAHWEH in YAHSHUA; everything that comes from hasatan and the way of the world/man IS REJECTED BY YAHWEH.

 

[maxwel]

Lets be balanced, and be fair to people with a different point of view.

Doctrine is not the "end" of our faith.
We aren't to just learn doctrine and then STOP.
We are to learn doctrine so we can WALK in the doctrine...
it's all about walking correctly with God.

"Doctrine" and "walk" are not separate things.
It isn't an "either-or" proposition.
We need BOTH.

 

[dcontroversal]

do as you say- stick with SCRIPTURE. 'doctrine' and 'teaching' and lessons and life and truth in SCRIPTURE is true,
((doctrine's of CHRIST and of paul(of CHRIST)(simply SCRIPTURE) are truth , and right and good))
((but not practiced in almost any chruch))((TEST EVERYTHING))


but IF you have, as it looks like from your posts(many), trusting in some of man's doctrine that is opposed to SCRIPTURE,
then you're in error.

IF you don't trust any man's doctrine and teaching, any which is opposed to SCRIPTURE, then you're okay.(or at least concerning this it would seem so).

in the ekklesia, there's nothing controversial about rejecting everything that is not from YAHWEH in YAHSHUA; everything that comes from hasatan and the way of the world/man IS REJECTED BY YAHWEH.

I agree with all four points.......bolded that is......

 

[Matthew4Jesus]

Hi, thank-you everyone for your responses, I always appreciate the time and effort you put in for these replies.

Some really good scriptures and explanation here, it's seems doctrine is important but there's far more to it than that.

Ultimately, what we seek is the truth, not something that fits our own agendas.

God Bless You All.