How many times was the "end times" supposed to happen, anyway?

Ahwatukee · Nov 30, 2015

All you're doing now is circumventing scripture:

"Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them"

In the verse above the "You" represents the disciples and all the church. The "Them" represents that generation of Israel. Therefore, for the church, the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven have been given to us, but not to those during that generation of Israel that Jesus was speaking to and that because of the prophecy that the Lord quoted in Isaiah.

Stonemason · Nov 30, 2015

Blain said:

People being deceived and not knowing they were deceived is new to today? No. The time is as much near as it has been near since it was written. It is within us.

The enemy? The enemy conquered in the prophet scriptures? The enemy who challenged Elijah, Job, Jesus himself? Was he now born yesterday? Do you think I was? Have I studied? It is within me.

It can be within you, too. It is for you. Don't stop your understanding with this answer of "rapture" or "extreme dispensationalism". You'll see, I hope.

Blain · Nov 30, 2015

Stonemason said:

The fact you have not studied and believe it is simply (within you) shows that you are blind to what is going on here. Many think they see when in fact they are completely blind. And even if you attempted to study for yourself I don't think your heart is ready to yet because if one seeks the truth then they must go into it with an open and teachable heart and must be willing to admit they might be wrong or else all they will see is what they believe.

I at first was the same as you but God taught me the value of the kind of eyes we see through and how much the eyes we see through have to do with our hearts and how this relates to everything about him and the scriptures and the truth.

Stonemason · Nov 30, 2015

Ahwatukee said:

Well, that's pretty interesting, because "the disciples" were in "that generation of Israel". But aside from this, were to you be more clear and express "these are separated", they were not. "Looking without seeing", "hearing without listening"... You're looking right at me, you're even responding to me, but you're talking right past me, as if I'm small, and that's ok. I'm not here to be "big".

Blain · Nov 30, 2015

Stonemason said:

? who is that looking without seeing? he is not talking past you as if you are small at all this is simply how you perceive his words

Ahwatukee · Nov 30, 2015

Stonemason said:

Yes, but you can read it yourself that he made a distinction between the disciples and those who he was speaking to. Though the disciples were in the lineage of Israel, when they received Christ they became a part of the church, which is a separate entity from the nation Israel. This distinction is easy to determine by the words "given to you, but not to them." The disciples/church is the "You" and the "Them" was that generation of Israel that he was speaking parables to.

And I am not talking past you as though you were small, but I am trying to teach you something. These events of wrath are coming whether you believe in it or not.

Stonemason · Nov 30, 2015

Blain said:

I grew up in the church, Blain. So you don't then make this an issue that "my church" is not some proper one, for this conversation, we won't discuss that further. I promise, I assure you, I am well versed in biblical study, both in the faith and scholastic manner.

This is for which you reach when you're running out of ammunition, "well you don't know what you're talking about because you're ignorant". I think better of you. Come on. If you want to debate, debate the message, not the messenger.

Stonemason · Nov 30, 2015

Ahwatukee said:

Teach me what? I've clearly demonstrated I fully grasp "your side". You're repeating "your side" as a broken record, as if it's supposed to somehow make me understand something different about "your side". The whole thread starts with people who believe "your side". "Your side" has led to fear and panic, charlatans, misled people lost in wildernesses, exploitations and hollywood movies. I understand your side.

Now, how about "my side". What, to you, is "my side", Ahwatukee?

Stonemason · Nov 30, 2015

I have to go for now. Another time.

Blain · Nov 30, 2015

Stonemason said:

do you think that growing up in church makes any kind of difference? You can have grown up in a Christian family and can have grown up in church you can even know the bible front to back but what makes the entire difference is the relationship between you and God the love and intimacy that bonds you two the closeness of the hearts.

I never once thought I was better than you I make it a point to put myself lower than everyone else and I am not trying to talk down to you I am trying to teach you and give you correction just as the apostles did did just Jesus did and just as many here have done for me. A wise man joyfully receives correction but a fool rejects it, I have learned this from the many teachers I have had in my time here in cc

Ahwatukee · Nov 30, 2015

Stonemason said:

Your side? Your side is ignoring the plain text of scripture in exchange for symbolism. Regardless of fear, panic, charlatans, etc., what they have done does not change the truth of God's word. And what I am trying to get you to understand is that, you can believe what you are reading in its literal sense. Regarding fear and panic, they don't exist for those who are in Christ, for those events of wrath previously mentioned will be poured out on unbelievers, those who have rejected Christ after the church has been removed.

In any case, if I have offended you, then please except my apology, for that is not my intention, but only to contend for the truth of God's word. I have been trying get you to see that these things that are written regarding end-time events are literally going to take place, just as they are written. However, you are certainly free to believe whatever you want. My claim has always been the same regarding scripture:

"If the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense."

Have a good evening!

Willie-T · Nov 30, 2015

"We have to be ready at any time" is one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard spoken.

What do you intend to do "to be ready"..... cross your fingers on both hands, close your eyes, and grunt real hard while holding your breath?

JesusLives · Nov 30, 2015

Maybe I misunderstood OP but I thought he listed them more from an interesting fact than a challenge to the second coming...I found them to be interesting.....

Sounds to me like OP does believe Christ will return just pointing out all the predicting people trying to set dates and such....Did I read it wrong?

To me there is nothing to fight about as I believe we are all on the same page....but then I am Blond what do I know?

VCO · Dec 1, 2015

Stonemason said:

Personally, I am not interested in the list. However, I do see a great deal of confusion over what the term "End Times" is actually referring to. Some think it only refers to the Second Coming, others think it refers to the Tribulation Period out, however, I think it refers to SEVERAL decades of time. It commences with the beginning of the Falling Away from Truth and cooling off of the majority's LOVE FOR CHRIST. It literally is the time that many call the Laodicean Church Age, when Lukewarmness towards Christ dominates the Church. Sadly, I must admit it is my Generation that dropped the ball, and slid into a Lukewarm Easy Believism, forsaking the Fervant Love for CHRIST and Serving HIM that dominated the prior 100 plus years of the Church. Yes I am saying the 60's were the beginning of the Falling Away, when the focus turned from Serving Christ and others, to serving SELF, and building SELF up, instead of others. Missionaries ready for retirement found it harder and harder to find replacements. Many were forced to close their Missions. "ENTERTAIN ME" became the driving force of many Churches, instead of "WORSHIP THE LORD AND SERVE HIM". Step back and look how far we have fallen, and you will know I telling you exactly how its. Does your Church sound like a Social Club prior to the Service, or is their Reverent Silence and Prayer while all earnestly prepare their hearts to Worship our LORD?

Habakkuk 2:20 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But the LORD is in His holy temple. Let all the earth keep silence before Him."

Isaiah 41:1 (NRSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Listen to me in silence, O coastlands; let the peoples renew their strength; let them approach, then let them speak; let us together draw near for judgment.

Ecclesiastes 5:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil.

Deuteronomy 27:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Moses and the Levitical priests spoke to all Israel, “Be silent, Israel, and listen! This day you have become the people of the LORD your God.

Job 6:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Teach me, and I will be silent. Help me understand what I did wrong.

Psalm 37:7 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Be silent before the LORD and wait expectantly for Him; do not be agitated by one who prospers in his way, by the man who carries out evil plans.

Job 11:13 (ESV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “If you prepare your heart, you will stretch out your hands toward him.

The OPPOSITE is what came out of the 60's, a severe relaxing of the Reverence for GOD. Hence, the majority of Churches now sound like a Worldly Social Club prior to the WORSHIP SERVICE.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Matthew 24:3-14 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] All these are the beginning of sorrows.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Revelation 3:14-22 (ISV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "To the messenger of the church in Laodicea, write: 'The Amen, the witness who is faithful and true, the beginning of God's creation, says this:
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Since you are lukewarm {unteachable} and neither hot nor cold, I'm going to spit you out of my mouth.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] You say, "I'm rich. I have become wealthy. I don't need anything." Yet you don't realize that you are miserable, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore, I advise you to buy from me gold purified in fire so that you may be rich, white clothes to wear so that you may keep the shame of your nakedness from showing, and ointment to put on your eyes so that you may see.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I correct and discipline those whom I love. So be serious and repent!
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Look! I'm standing at the door and knocking. If anyone listens to my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he will eat with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] 'Let the person who has an ear listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.'

So, how long does the "End Times" last? Until this EVENT actually happens:

Zechariah 14:2-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle. The city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women raped. Half the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there will be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.

Babylonisfalling · Dec 1, 2015

Stonemason said:

When I was a kid it was Ronald Wilson Reagan, with six letters in each name. The Pope was the false prophet. These guys just go from one set of headlines and one set of political leaders to the next over and over again. It's much more about doomsday-ology than Christianity.

NarrowRoadDisciple · Dec 1, 2015

Actually guys, if you read the OP he stated that following this "list" and seeing that it is the end times each time is a poor use of scripture.

Yes we are to be ready, that is "SPIRITUALLY" ready at all times. At no other time has end time prophecy come to a head like this, starting specifically with the re-establishment of Israel in a day back in 1948. Can we say with a certainty the time and day? Of course not. Are was asked to know the season and understand prophecy? A most resounding yes.

Babylonisfalling · Dec 1, 2015

Understanding prophecy disqualifies the doomsday-ology crowd

Stonemason · Dec 1, 2015

hmm, anyway, to the original point...

I can't find any literature wherein "Martin Luther predicted no later than 1600". He said a number of times "he felt certain he was living in end times", but was always particularly averse to naming a specific date, or even a timeline. Anyone else find a source for this? Any others in the list questionable?

ukok102nak · Dec 1, 2015

Amos: 5. 16. Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.
17. And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD.
18. Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
19. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20. Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

:smoke: we are not telling this to make the people unfaithful to their beliefs
but to warn everyone that if this day would come
everyone wiil be ready especially to those people who has a different faiths
inside their own family like most of oyr fellows whose families were still beyond
the traditions of different religions . . . ..

and it is saddest part of our life (if we are destined to experienced it)
if we learn that we cannot do anything for our loveones when that time comes . ...
:read:
Ezekiel: 14. 14. Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

: : would anyone be so greatful and ful of joy at the same time if they learn
that its only them who has a pure of heart and soul will be saved at that time
and all those who remains shall be tested from the things that even us cant do
anything when everything shall done according to
what is written
:read:
Matthew: 24. 21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

God bless us all always

:ty:

Budman · Dec 1, 2015

Stonemason, a quick question:

How much of the book of Revelation do you believe is literal?

How many times was the "end times" supposed to happen, anyway?

Senior Member

Banned

The Word Weaver

Banned

The Word Weaver

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

The Word Weaver

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Babylonisfalling

Guest

Senior Member

Babylonisfalling

Guest

Banned

Banned

Senior Member