How Reliable is the Bible?
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J
Up for a long read?
Scripture Speaks for Itself by John Frame <--- click
Why 66, Part 4: How Do We Know the Bible Is True? - Answers in Genesis <--- click
Scripture Speaks for Itself by John Frame <--- click
Why 66, Part 4: How Do We Know the Bible Is True? - Answers in Genesis <--- click
Scripture on the words of God,
Isaiah 30:8
Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book,
that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever.
Isaiah 34:16
Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail,
none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Psalm 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
1 Thessalonians 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
Isaiah 30:8
Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book,
that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever.
Isaiah 34:16
Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail,
none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Psalm 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
1 Thessalonians 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
C
The bible was put in the current order in around the 400s, BUT they did not write or change the book, they only decided which books to include as there are those that have false teaching, such as the Gospel of Thomas. The bible was written much earlier, we can recreate the New Testament word for word, minus 7 verses, from letters written between 1st century churches.
J
Is God's revealed word an ultimate source of ultimate truth? If so, how can any lesser truth be right when it contradicts the ultimate source of ultimate truth?
That's all it really is. It's difficult to grasp at first, when you're not used to thinking presuppositionally but if you're looking to establish things by means of exhaustive explainations you're going to have trouble verifying that your five senses are accurate in reporting reality/actuality to you, without appealing to the accuracy of the five senses which is a circular argument. Circularity isn't always a problem.
The below is a portion of an email exchange between myself and someone who was once a user here at CC.
The question I asked him was this: "How do we know that the five senses accurately report the reality of the world, without being circular?"
His response is below.
So what is the relevancy?
Scripture being a revelation from God is an ultimate source of ultimate truth(God). So anything that disagrees with it, is going to be wrong.
An example: You may not be able to explain on a scientific level (indeed I think AIG and ICR fail at this in many ways) how God created the world in 6, 24 hour days, but because "the bible says so I believe it" presuppositionally we don't "have" to address it. Only if we base ourselves in human reasoning rather than scripture do we have to account for the rationality of men walking on water, talking donkies, healing of leppers, etc etc.. While I don't think those things are irrational and will certainly argue for them rationally, if we find that it were to contradict scripture we must believe because scripture is a more foundational revelation of truth, that somewhere in the process of thinking and logical argumentation an error was made, regardless of whether we know what it is or is not.
Similar to when you are working with calculus, or indeed any mathematical forumula in which you know what the answer is, but not how the answer was derived. If in the process of solveing the problem we discover that our answer will not be what we know it should be, do we have to know where we went wrong to know that we were indeed wrong? No. That's the same with the biblical canon.
That's all it really is. It's difficult to grasp at first, when you're not used to thinking presuppositionally but if you're looking to establish things by means of exhaustive explainations you're going to have trouble verifying that your five senses are accurate in reporting reality/actuality to you, without appealing to the accuracy of the five senses which is a circular argument. Circularity isn't always a problem.
The below is a portion of an email exchange between myself and someone who was once a user here at CC.
The question I asked him was this: "How do we know that the five senses accurately report the reality of the world, without being circular?"
His response is below.
So what is the relevancy?
Scripture being a revelation from God is an ultimate source of ultimate truth(God). So anything that disagrees with it, is going to be wrong.
An example: You may not be able to explain on a scientific level (indeed I think AIG and ICR fail at this in many ways) how God created the world in 6, 24 hour days, but because "the bible says so I believe it" presuppositionally we don't "have" to address it. Only if we base ourselves in human reasoning rather than scripture do we have to account for the rationality of men walking on water, talking donkies, healing of leppers, etc etc.. While I don't think those things are irrational and will certainly argue for them rationally, if we find that it were to contradict scripture we must believe because scripture is a more foundational revelation of truth, that somewhere in the process of thinking and logical argumentation an error was made, regardless of whether we know what it is or is not.
Similar to when you are working with calculus, or indeed any mathematical forumula in which you know what the answer is, but not how the answer was derived. If in the process of solveing the problem we discover that our answer will not be what we know it should be, do we have to know where we went wrong to know that we were indeed wrong? No. That's the same with the biblical canon.
But do not exalt earthly scripture about God's spirit and entity!
This would be a man made limitation and a heresy also.
Our Scripture is a road map, translated,soften, burned,
and sometime even corrupted as the jewish masonic bible,
or even the satanic bible from jew anton lavey.
God is so much greater then our earthly road map.
How else could he himself as Jesus Christ did it all by himself!
Why? Cause no one ever could do it and has greater love
as God for his beloved once to even give his live for his Children!
This would be a man made limitation and a heresy also.
Our Scripture is a road map, translated,soften, burned,
and sometime even corrupted as the jewish masonic bible,
or even the satanic bible from jew anton lavey.
God is so much greater then our earthly road map.
How else could he himself as Jesus Christ did it all by himself!
Why? Cause no one ever could do it and has greater love
as God for his beloved once to even give his live for his Children!
No Jesus Christ was not a jew.
He is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit and born from the Holy Spirit.
He call himself a Nazarene from the gentile part of Galilee.
By the way.Jews are not jews they are khazar,edomites like their king herod
who killed all baby boys cause of the fear of the coming messiah,called Jesus.
The wailing wall is nothing else than parts of herod's temple.
He is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit and born from the Holy Spirit.
He call himself a Nazarene from the gentile part of Galilee.
By the way.Jews are not jews they are khazar,edomites like their king herod
who killed all baby boys cause of the fear of the coming messiah,called Jesus.
The wailing wall is nothing else than parts of herod's temple.
S
Appreciating all these posts,
I fully accept the reliablity of the Bible. God is well able to bring about the assembly of the Bible as we have it, and I believe He has done so.
Further, I accept it to fully rely on it as what God has given me to bellieve. I recognise that a lifetime of study and knowledge will bring me no closer in measure to His infinite knowledge.
And now I can walk in freedom, being available to what the Spirit of God would say to me, through the minutes of the day.
Best wishes to you all in Christ.
I fully accept the reliablity of the Bible. God is well able to bring about the assembly of the Bible as we have it, and I believe He has done so.
Further, I accept it to fully rely on it as what God has given me to bellieve. I recognise that a lifetime of study and knowledge will bring me no closer in measure to His infinite knowledge.
And now I can walk in freedom, being available to what the Spirit of God would say to me, through the minutes of the day.
Best wishes to you all in Christ.
scott:
why do you quote men, and worse, scripture out of context?
1 Peter 1
Christ’s Glory and the Prophetic Word
16For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son,i with whom I am well pleased,” 18we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
SOLA SCRIPTURA!
why do you quote men, and worse, scripture out of context?
1 Peter 1
Christ’s Glory and the Prophetic Word
16For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son,i with whom I am well pleased,” 18we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
SOLA SCRIPTURA!