How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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I have just sent an email to deactivate my account. Y’all won’t have to deal with me anymore. And I do
Not have to watch people be bullied by others anymore

God bless you
Brother - I am not against you. I am only suggesting that "a little more patience is required sometimes" when dealing with others in an environment such as this.

I pray God will direct your path to the place(s) where you can serve Him best.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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The point went RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD !! Sadly.

If I had letters to Churches today by varied preachers, I cod read them and learn also, but that would not make them "THUS SAITH THE LORD" Biblical scriptures would it?

This is too easy. It's like hitting the side of a barn with a shotgun blast and 5 feet, I can't miss, at least make it a challenging argument !!

The point stands, Paul's letters were not Thus Sath the Lord Scriptures. They were Letters unto Churches.

PERIOD.
You are in clear sin and ignorance of who the Holy Spirit is and how HE Authored the Scripture.

For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth. 13Yes, I think it is right, as long as I am in this [f]tent, to stir you up by reminding you, 14knowing that shortly I must [g]put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me. 15Moreover I will be careful to ensure that you always have a reminder of these things after my [h]decease.

16For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

19And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private [j]interpretation, 21for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Cease from valuing your ignorance above the Scripture = the word of God.

You are not an Apostle, you have no authority to speak against Scripture.
 

GaryA

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Paul does not say a blink in the eye before us - read it again - he is talkinging about the transition from the dead body into the Glorified one.
No, he is talking about those who are alive transitioning into the glorified body.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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No, he is talking about those who are alive transitioning into the glorified body.
YES, whether it is the dead who rise or after that the living who's bodies transition intro the Glorified New Bodies.

The transition from death to immortality happens in seconds or less.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
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No, he is talking about those who are alive transitioning into the glorified body.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I would have to agree with Gary here.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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No, he is talking about those who are alive transitioning into the glorified body.
This is a 'pre-trib' move in attempting is to erase/evade the clear distinction of the Resurrection occuring BEFORE the rapture/gathering.

They hate the clear Scripture of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and do all they can to misintepret it and change the Order to fit in pre-trib error.

They want to believe that the Resurrection and rapture are simultaneous. If they establish this error then they build on that error to twist the other related scriptures.

This is how the spirit of error works. Start off with just one misleading 'speaking' of altered scripture, then build on that false foundation with other scripture in a 'square block into a round hole' fitment.

i have seen this move continually on here, even to the point of them reversing the clear Order of 1 Thess 4:13-18.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
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You are in clear sin and ignorance of who the Holy Spirit is and how HE Authored the Scripture.

For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth. 13Yes, I think it is right, as long as I am in this [f]tent, to stir you up by reminding you, 14knowing that shortly I must [g]put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me. 15Moreover I will be careful to ensure that you always have a reminder of these things after my [h]decease.

16For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

19And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private [j]interpretation, 21for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Cease from valuing your ignorance above the Scripture = the word of God.

You are not an Apostle, you have no authority to speak against Scripture.
You are one of those who are wrong on 97 percent of everything you post.

IT IS WHAT IT IS...........
 
Aug 2, 2021
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You are one of those who are wrong on 97 percent of everything you post.

IT IS WHAT IT IS...........
Well that's something since the Scripture is all i am adhering to without 'adding to and taking away' from God's words.

The other thing is that it is now 3 full months and no one has been able to bring forth even one verse that states:
"Christ will pre-trib rapture His Elect"
or
"Christ will make multiple trips to secretly rapture 'worthy Saints' BEFORE the Resurrection"
or
"Christ has established two separate Gospels - one for the Jew and one for the Gentile"

Too much bling from the pre-trib thing
because there ain't no such thing
Nope - it dosen't ring true
Never did and it's not for you
God has set the Order in Place
We all must finish our Race
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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Paul does not say a blink in the eye before us - read it again - he is talkinging about the transition from the dead body into the Glorified one.
The "twinkling of an eye" is strictly associated only with "the change" and not the Resurrection or the Rapture.

I agree it's not a reference to the rapture BUT it is speaking of both ways to immortality, resurrection and the living being changed.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Clearly both are being addressed as happening in twinkling of an eye which simply means very quickly. The dead in Christ rise first into immortality, living are changed in that order.


1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

It seems at first Paul is saying thing twice but I don't think he is.

"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption"

G5349
φθαρτός
phthartos
fthar-tos'
From G5351; decayed, that is, (by implication) perishable: - corruptible.
Total KJV occurrences: 6

This can be decayed (past tense) or perishable as in capable of decaying. I think Paul is using it as decayed as in something already dead.

In verse 52 he speaks of dead first, then the living so he is doing the very same here:

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible (decayed) shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal (living mortal human) shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Comparing language in both verses:

"the dead shall be raised incorruptible" = "this corruptible (decayed) shall have put on incorruption"

"we (the living) shall be changed" = "this mortal (living mortal human) shall have put on immortality"


So, in a twinkling of an eye shall dead be resurrected. And just after that also in a twinkling of an eye shall the living mortals be changed into immortals.

Amen?
 
Aug 2, 2021
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I agree it's not a reference to the rapture BUT it is speaking of both ways to immortality, resurrection and the living being changed.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Clearly both are being addressed as happening in twinkling of an eye which simply means very quickly. The dead in Christ rise first into immortality, living are changed in that order.


1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

It seems at first Paul is saying thing twice but I don't think he is.

"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption"

G5349
φθαρτός
phthartos
fthar-tos'
From G5351; decayed, that is, (by implication) perishable: - corruptible.
Total KJV occurrences: 6

This can be decayed (past tense) or perishable as in capable of decaying. I think Paul is using it as decayed as in something already dead.

In verse 52 he speaks of dead first, then the living so he is doing the very same here:

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible (decayed) shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal (living mortal human) shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Comparing language in both verses:

"the dead shall be raised incorruptible" = "this corruptible (decayed) shall have put on incorruption"

"we (the living) shall be changed" = "this mortal (living mortal human) shall have put on immortality"


So, in a twinkling of an eye shall dead be resurrected. And just after that also in a twinkling of an eye shall the living mortals be changed into immortals.

Amen?
amen
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,983
1,261
113
Made a few edits:

I agree it's not a reference to the rapture BUT it is speaking of both ways to immortality, resurrection and the living being changed.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Clearly both are being addressed as happening in the twinkling of an eye which simply means very quickly. The dead in Christ rise first into immortality, and then the living are changed into immortals, in that order.


1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

It seems at first Paul is saying the same thing twice but I don't think he is.

"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption"

G5349
f?a?t?´?
phthartos
fthar-tos'
From G5351; decayed, that is, (by implication) perishable: - corruptible.
Total KJV occurrences: 6

This can mean "decayed" (past tense) or "perishable" as in capable of decaying. I think Paul is using it as "decayed" as in something already dead based on his earlier mention of the dead.

In verse 52 he speaks of the dead first, then the living, and he is doing the very same here:

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible (decayed) shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal (living mortal human) shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Comparing language in both verses:

"the dead shall be raised incorruptible" = "this corruptible (decayed) shall have put on incorruption"

"we (the living) shall be changed" = "this mortal (living mortal human) shall have put on immortality"


So, in a twinkling of an eye shall the dead be resurrected into immortal bodies. And just after that, also in a twinkling of an eye, shall the living mortals be changed into immortals.
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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No, he is talking about those who are alive transitioning into the glorified body.
This is a 'pre-trib' move in attempting is to erase/evade the clear distinction of the Resurrection occuring BEFORE the rapture/gathering.

They hate the clear Scripture of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and do all they can to misintepret it and change the Order to fit in pre-trib error.

They want to believe that the Resurrection and rapture are simultaneous. If they establish this error then they build on that error to twist the other related scriptures.

This is how the spirit of error works. Start off with just one misleading 'speaking' of altered scripture, then build on that false foundation with other scripture in a 'square block into a round hole' fitment.

i have seen this move continually on here, even to the point of them reversing the clear Order of 1 Thess 4:13-18.
Now, you know I am not 'pre-trib'.

I made that statement because I believe "the dead shall be raised incorruptable" (1 Corinthians 15:52) indicates a change from 'dead' to 'glorified' in a single action.

I do not doubt the possibility of the Resurrection occurring in a very short time - similar to "the change" on those alive directly after the Resurrection. However, I do not see it that scripture indicates it explicitly.

I am only saying that the phrase "in the twinkling of an eye" - in the same verse - in the context of the passage - actually only applies to "the change" on the "alive and remain" group.

I have no problem with the idea that each of the two groups has their own "the change" moment - albeit separately - at 'twinkle' timing - before being raptured together.

In any case, the whole thing will not take that long - so...

The point is - scripture only specifically indicates the 'twinkling' timing to be associated with "the change" and not the Resurrection or the Rapture - either or both of which may actually take longer.

A lot of people misread it and think the Rapture to occur "in the twinkling of an eye"; however, that is not what it actually says. ;) <-- *

(*) - And, that was a full wink - it was more than just a 'twinkle'... :geek: :giggle:

:coffee:
 

GaryA

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This is a 'pre-trib' move in attempting is to erase/evade the clear distinction of the Resurrection occuring BEFORE the rapture/gathering.
Absolutely not...

The order is:

1) Resurrection
2) "the change"
3) Rapture
This explicitly shows that the Resurrection is distinct and before the Rapture. It even shows that there is something else between the two.
 

GaryA

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I agree it's not a reference to the rapture BUT it is speaking of both ways to immortality, resurrection and the living being changed.
Close enough - not worth arguing over.

I am pretty sure that the 'change' part of the Resurrection is the same 'effect' as that of the 'alive and remain' group.
 

GaryA

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I can imagine (because I have a really good imagination) that God may deliberately cause the Resurrection and/or the Rapture take a bit longer to fully transpire - just to make sure everybody on earth sees it happening.

You know - "fully takes it in"...

Just a thought...
 
Jul 23, 2018
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No, you said that, I said Pauls letters were not "THUS SAITH THE LORD" as were the Prophets of Old which could NEVER BE WRONG. A holy Spirot led sermon by a Holy Spirit led preacher can have some UNGODLY FACTS in there because people pass down things they have heard in their life which are just not factual, but they think it is factual, that doesn't mean he is not of God or the sermon was not of God.

So, any preacher that preaches that the 144,000 are 144,000 SUPER PREACHERS are just factually wrong. I would say 95 percent say this, but they are wrong, that doesn't mean that they are WRONG HEADED NOT of God Preachers, it simply means they are WRONG on the 144,000. Nowhere in the bible, NOT ANYWHERE does it say these are 144,000 Super Preachers. After one understands that is a fallacy, only then can they understand these 144,000 are the Jewish people who repents, they are 3-5 million people (Zechariah 13:8-9) and we can figure that out via all the clues and via the timing of where they are seen at in the book of Revelation, but only when we understand the Seals are indeed NOT JUDGMENTS can we understand its a linear picture of the Jews fleeing Judea just BEFORE the Judgments fall in Rev. 8.

If God tells Paul/Peter etc. to go out and convert the masses, they are not required to have every single word as TRUTHS which can not be wrong, the Prophets of old had to have God's truths, and not one word could be overexaggerated. Meanwhile, the Disciples were given a job of winning souls, which meant finesse was used in some cases, ohhh, you guys are worried about loved ones being let in the grave, HEY they will be raised FIRST a blink of an eye BEFORE those who are alive will be raised. I didn't think God is going to raise the dead up a split second before those of us who are alive, I think that was Paul ( In a LETTER) finessing this answer to reassure these people that their loved ones would be raised and taken to heave, and thus not left behind. How could Paul do this in his mind? EUREKA, just tell them the Dead are raised just before the living gets taken. Paul's job was to build the Gentiles FAITH, thus he needed them to continue in the Faith, to have hope. The truth is, he was telling them THE TRUTH, the Dead in Christ will indeed be RAISED and those who are alive will be TAKEN at the exact same time. The way he finessed them into keeping the faith was his job as a Pastor. Paul told them the truth and gave them HOPE for their dead loved ones. JOB WELL DONE. But don't hold a Pastor finessing a flock to the same standard as an Old Testament Prophet, that sir makes no sense tbh.
So you take it on yourself to declare parts of the bible are from God, and other parts are just a preacher with sketchy info ?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The point went RIGHT OVER YOUR HEAD !! Sadly.

If I had letters to Churches today by varied preachers, I cod read them and learn also, but that would not make them "THUS SAITH THE LORD" Biblical scriptures would it?

This is too easy. It's like hitting the side of a barn with a shotgun blast and 5 feet, I can't miss, at least make it a challenging argument !!

The point stands, Paul's letters were not Thus Sath the Lord Scriptures. They were Letters unto Churches.

PERIOD.
That is really bad.

Sorry you handle the bible that way.

Just wow
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Yes, one in Matt. 24:29-31 and the other in Matt. 24:36-51.


NO.....If a Preacher writes a letter today t his flock is that the WORD OF GOD? Maybe, or maybe not, it could be inspired by God, but at the same time if a pastor is having a hard time getting his flock to understand something he might embellish it to get them to see the picture. Do you understand the difference in time via a blinking of an eyelash? It is considered a moment, not even a second, so WHY did Paul feel the need to say the Dead are "RAISED FIRST" a Blinking of an eye BEFORE those of us on earth who are alive at his coming?

Go back and reread 1 Thessalonians and 2b Thessalonians and even 1 and 2 Corinthians, you had many people doubting because their loved ones had died, so Paul was trying to reassure them their loved ones would not be left in the grave, and would be taken to heaven, thus he sys they are RESURRECTED FIRST, a Blink of an eye before those of us who are alive. NOW REMEMBER another Paul moto, I will be ALL THINGS unto ALL PEOPLE that I might win souls. So, Paul uses himself as a soul winner first and foremost, not a Thus Saith the Lord Prophet. I think we are all Resurrected at the exact same time, Paul tryi g to reassure the Thessalonians that their dead loved ones will be taken to heaven bothers me not. Paul is also wrong about the Anti-Christ entering the temple, Jesus says it's a Graven Image that STANDS where it OUGHT NIT STAND !! (Matt. 24:15-17) In Rev. 13 John sats the False Prophet places THE IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple. In Dan., 12:11-12 Jesus (Man in Linen) says its the 1290 False Prophet that stops Jesus Worship (takes away THE Sacrifice which is Jesus, not some stupid/profane Meat Sacrifice) and places the AoD.

The RCC placed the Letters of Paul in the bible. They re letters to his flock, they re ot THUS SAITH THE LORD. No matter how much yu say they are, they re not THUS SAITH THE LORD biblical scriptures, tey are letters unto his flock.
I am glad you revealed this.


I will pray for light to enter into you.

Hard to believe your words sir