How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[GaryA]

@Laura798 - you are no-doubt misinterpreting 2 Peter 3 also.

It is not saying that "all will be destroyed" / new-heaven-and-earth / etc. will [all] occur at the time of the return of Christ.

All of it, collectively, occurs over a span of [a literal] 1000 years.

Verse 8 is 'key' to a proper understanding of this passage.

One of the things you need to understand is that the 'Second Coming' is two things:

1) A 1000-year span of time.

2) The first [24-hour] day of that 1000 years.

The 1000 years is the Millenium.

The first day is the day Christ rerurns.

 

[GaryA]

The first day is the day Christ rerurns.

returns

(DANG 5 minute timeout! hahahaha)

 

[GaryA]

One of the things you need to understand is that the 'Second Coming' is two things:

I meant to say that the 'Day of the Lord' is two things...

 

[DavidTree]

Here's a short explanation:

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and of peace
there will be no end,
on the throne of David and over his kingdom,
to establish it and to uphold it
with justice and with righteousness
from this time forth and forevermore.

this prophecy indicates that the Kingdom is established at the incarnation and it is established 'from this time forth and forevermore'.

A literal 1000 years has no meaning when we consider that Christ's kingdom has no end. Hence the 1000 years of Rev 20 should be understood in the same manner that we understand that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Doesn't he own them all?

https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/why-not-a-literal-1000-year-millennium.13053/

Dear Sister = YES and AMEN to Isaiah 9:6

YES and AMEN to "this prophecy indicates that the Kingdom is established at the incarnation and it is established 'from this time forth and forevermore'."

JESUS, KING of kings and LORD of lords is reigning NOW = TODAY = in the hearts of His People = Us who know & love Him

A Literal 1,000 Years had a Literal meaning from God since Genesis but man fell short of that God's Glory and could not fulfill it.

When God created everything HE said it was GOOD.
Sin changed that, therefore that GOOD Literal 1,000 Year walk with God, no man could fulfill.

We see this in Genesis where men lived upwards of 300, 400, 600, 700, 800 and even 900 Literal Years.

GOD will not let satan and sin be victorious. BEHOLD, HE makes ALL things NEW.

Not only will the Redeemed walk with GOD for 1,000 literal years buy he will also Rule & Reign with CHRIST the LORD.

Dear Sister, this is God's Promise to His Redeemed, do not fight against the Promise of God as religious men always do.

 

[Charlie24]

This makes no sense whatsoever.

You seem to be suggesting that - if there is 7 years between a 'rapture' and the 'Second Coming' (pre-trib view; separate events) - there will be people who "live through" to the Millenium - but that - if there is only [say] 7 minutes between those same two 'events' (post-trib view; same event) - no one will "live through" to the Millenium.

What???

What is the difference?

Whatever the view, the 'Second Coming' is the same with regard to what happens at that time - and, whoever will "live through" to the Millenium.

Only, in the post-trib view, the 'rapture' is part of the Second Coming - and, is the first thing to occur. (resurrection/rapture)

It is the 'event' reality of the Second Coming that people will-or-will-not "live through" to the Millenium.

It is identically the same for all views.

("What am I missing here?")

Let me see if I can explain it to where you can see my point. I know it's difficult for to see it being a post-trib believer.

Let me say this first. If there is only one resurrection at or around the Second Coming, all the saved and those left alive who are saved. they are all translated as Paul said, meaning they will all receive glorified bodies. None of the saved will be able to reproduce during the 1000 years reign. The lost that are alive at the Second coming will not be allowed into this 1000 years-- per Matt. 25:31-46.

This makes it impossible for children to born during the 1000 years.

Now let's look at the pre-trib view.

At any time the rapture that Paul spoke of could take place. This is what the Christian is to be ready for. When this takes place, all the saints in the grave from the beginning of time will be resurrected along with all the saints alive at that time. These are the Church saints.

They meet the Lord in the air and go to be with Him in their glorified bodies. Now the anti-christ comes and the saved are gone and the Holy Spirit (the restrainer) is taken out of the way, so the anti-christ has his way on this earth for 7 years.

During the 7 years of tribulation most of the world will die, many of them will refuse the mark of the beast and be saved, untold millions, and of course many will die lost. At the Second Coming when Jesus comes to save Israel from being completely destroyed by the anti-christ, these tribulation saints are resurrected, this is the resurrection of Rev. 20 and only those saved during the tribulation, with the Church saints already being raptured some 7 years before.

In this theory, the saved who are still alive at the Second Coming are NOT translated, they will enter the 1000 reign and repopulate the earth with natural bodies.

Do you see that at the Second Coming in the post-trib view, all are translated, but the pre-trib view they are not?

 

[Charlie24]

Let me see if I can explain it to where you can see my point. I know it's difficult for to see it being a post-trib believer.

Let me say this first. If there is only one resurrection at or around the Second Coming, all the saved and those left alive who are saved. they are all translated as Paul said, meaning they will all receive glorified bodies. None of the saved will be able to reproduce during the 1000 years reign. The lost that are alive at the Second coming will not be allowed into this 1000 years-- per Matt. 25:31-46.

This makes it impossible for children to born during the 1000 years.

Now let's look at the pre-trib view.

At any time the rapture that Paul spoke of could take place. This is what the Christian is to be ready for. When this takes place, all the saints in the grave from the beginning of time will be resurrected along with all the saints alive at that time. These are the Church saints.

They meet the Lord in the air and go to be with Him in their glorified bodies. Now the anti-christ comes and the saved are gone and the Holy Spirit (the restrainer) is taken out of the way, so the anti-christ has his way on this earth for 7 years.

During the 7 years of tribulation most of the world will die, many of them will refuse the mark of the beast and be saved, untold millions, and of course many will die lost. At the Second Coming when Jesus comes to save Israel from being completely destroyed by the anti-christ, these tribulation saints are resurrected, this is the resurrection of Rev. 20 and only those saved during the tribulation, with the Church saints already being raptured some 7 years before.

In this theory, the saved who are still alive at the Second Coming are NOT translated, they will enter the 1000 reign and repopulate the earth with natural bodies.

Do you see that at the Second Coming in the post-trib view, all are translated, but the pre-trib view they are not?

When you grasp the understanding of the pre-trib view, you can then see that all the saved all the way back to Adam until the Second Coming who have died and been resurrected through the 2 resurrections have been grouped into one category. They have all been through the grave in Christ and resurrected. This is called the first resurrection in Rev. 20!

 

[Absolutely]

1) The falling away
2) Anti-christ revealed
3) The tribulation
4) Christ's Second Coming
5) The Judgment
6) The destruction of unbelievers and the world
7) The new heavens and new earth where 'only righteousness dwells. God will not dwell with US and we with him into eternity.

. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ 30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.… Matthew 23

.....and of course according to you there is no rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

Why not be direct about it? Just say the bridegroom isn't marrying more than one virgin rather then go on about how virgins with an S is plural? That isn't the best way to communicate your point.

In the parable the bridegroom is going to marry multiple virgins. The practice is found in the OT. In Jewish wedding tradition, the bridegroom does come at an unexpected time for the one or ones he is going to marry. He doesn't come to get bridemaids.

Because he needs the 10 virgin parable to NOT be the rapture.

So he spins it and the wedding supper in heaven.

 

[DavidTree]

Why not be direct about it? Just say the bridegroom isn't marrying more than one virgin rather then go on about how virgins with an S is plural? That isn't the best way to communicate your point.

In the parable the bridegroom is going to marry multiple virgins. The practice is found in the OT. In Jewish wedding tradition, the bridegroom does come at an unexpected time for the one or ones he is going to marry. He doesn't come to get bridemaids.

Dear Brother, They are completely missing the MAIN Essential Salvation Truth of Matt 25:1-13

 

[peldom10]

Why not be direct about it? Just say the bridegroom isn't marrying more than one virgin rather then go on about how virgins with an S is plural? That isn't the best way to communicate your point.

In the parable the bridegroom is going to marry multiple virgins. The practice is found in the OT. In Jewish wedding tradition, the bridegroom does come at an unexpected time for the one or ones he is going to marry. He doesn't come to get bridemaids.

Are you folks missing the point that this is symbolic.... what .is all this about virgins?...and the 2nd advent of Christ?

 

[DavidTree]

Are you folks missing the point that this is symbolic.... what .is all this about virgins?...and the 2nd advent of Christ?

YES, the LORD gave a parable as recorded in Matthew 25:1-13.

This parable was given after Matthew ch24 when the Bride of Christ asked their Bridegroom when HE was coming back for them.

 

[Absolutely]

Are you folks missing the point that this is symbolic.... what .is all this about virgins?...and the 2nd advent of Christ?

Symbolizes the rapture ( groom coming for his bride),and the worthy ones( wise virgins) with oil being taken from the midst of the backslider pew sitters (foolish virgins).

 

[Laura798]

.....and of course according to you there is no rapture.

Of course? No need for sarcasm — we are as scripture says caught up with Him in the air at His coming.

 

[Laura798]

Dear Sister = YES and AMEN to Isaiah 9:6

YES and AMEN to "this prophecy indicates that the Kingdom is established at the incarnation and it is established 'from this time forth and forevermore'."

JESUS, KING of kings and LORD of lords is reigning NOW = TODAY = in the hearts of His People = Us who know & love Him

A Literal 1,000 Years had a Literal meaning from God since Genesis but man fell short of that God's Glory and could not fulfill it.

When God created everything HE said it was GOOD.
Sin changed that, therefore that GOOD Literal 1,000 Year walk with God, no man could fulfill.

We see this in Genesis where men lived upwards of 300, 400, 600, 700, 800 and even 900 Literal Years.

GOD will not let satan and sin be victorious. BEHOLD, HE makes ALL things NEW.

Not only will the Redeemed walk with GOD for 1,000 literal years buy he will also Rule & Reign with CHRIST the LORD.

Dear Sister, this is God's Promise to His Redeemed, do not fight against the Promise of God as religious men always do.

No fighting-anything here David. We are none of us right all of the time. I believe the reign is happening now and many theolgians and believers agree it is symbolic and you and some others think it is literal and happens in the future. Neither of is likely to change our position.

 

[Laura798]

@Laura798 - you are no-doubt misinterpreting 2 Peter 3 also.

It is not saying that "all will be destroyed" / new-heaven-and-earth / etc. will [all] occur at the time of the return of Christ.

All of it, collectively, occurs over a span of [a literal] 1000 years.

Verse 8 is 'key' to a proper understanding of this passage.

One of the things you need to understand is that the 'Second Coming' is two things:

1) A 1000-year span of time.

2) The first [24-hour] day of that 1000 years.

The 1000 years is the Millenium.

The first day is the day Christ rerurns.

And I believe you are interpreting it to fit your doctrinal narrative— as i said before trying to fit a literal thousand years into the other literal accounts of the end times is like trying to push an elephant thru a key hole. Furthermore if there was a literal 1000 year reign Christ, the apostles and the prophets would have spoken and written of it— which they didnt. Revelation is highly symbolic and one cannot go around guessing what is figurative and what is literal. We must test scripture against scripture and not isolate verses as you are doing with Revelation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Dear Brother, They are completely missing the MAIN Essential Salvation Truth of Matt 25:1-13

What do you mean by that?

I said, the "5 wise VirginS" are SAVED persons (they will indeed ENTER the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom commencing upon His RETURN to the earth... and they will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies as "still-living" at the time of His Second Coming to the earth / Return... FOR the MK age / aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER").

See that? I said the "5 wise VirginS" are SAVED persons

(they just are not who Jesus is coming to "MARRY" / they are not "the [singular] Bride / Wife" (and neither is "the FRIEND" of the Bridegroom" also not whom He is "MARRYING" John 3:29)--whereas "the BRIDE / WIFE [singular]" is pertaining to the "MARRIAGE" itself [who is not being referred to in this passage].... These "10 [or 5] VirginS [plural]" pertain to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [i.e. the earthly MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth] v.10 and parallels in the Gospels speaking of this... Verse 10 says, "and they [speaking of the 5]... went in with [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [a "with" word DISTINCT from the "WITH [G4862 - syn- UNIONed-with]" word used regarding US [all those saved "in this present age [singular]" and to/for/of whom the "RAPTURE" solely pertains--not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods]).






[see again my posts regarding the "LAMPS LIT" for the "IN THE NIGHT" time-period (the "NIGHT WATCHES"), aka the "DARK / DARKNESS" aspect OF "the DOTL" time period, immediately preceding and LEADING UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth FOR the MK age]

 

[DavidTree]

What do you mean by that?

I said, the "5 wise VirginS" are SAVED persons (they will indeed ENTER the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom commencing upon His RETURN to the earth... and they will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies as "still-living" at the time of His Second Coming to the earth / Return... FOR the MK age / aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER").

See that? I said the "5 wise VirginS" are SAVED persons

(they just are not who Jesus is coming to "MARRY" / they are not "the [singular] Bride / Wife" (and neither is "the FRIEND" of the Bridegroom" also not whom He is "MARRYING" John 3:29)--whereas "the BRIDE / WIFE [singular]" is pertaining to the "MARRIAGE" itself [who is not being referred to in this passage].... These "10 [or 5] VirginS [plural]" pertain to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [i.e. the earthly MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth] v.10 and parallels in the Gospels speaking of this... Verse 10 says, "and they [speaking of the 5]... went in with [G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANYING] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [a "with" word DISTINCT from the "WITH [G4862 - syn- UNIONed-with]" word used regarding US [all those saved "in this present age [singular]" and to/for/of whom the "RAPTURE" solely pertains--not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods]).

[see again my posts regarding the "LAMPS LIT" for the "IN THE NIGHT" time-period (the "NIGHT WATCHES"), aka the "DARK / DARKNESS" aspect OF "the DOTL" time period, immediately preceding and LEADING UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth FOR the MK age]

Not you Brother - PEACE

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Matthew 25:31-46 is the great white throne judgment.

No it isn't.

A cpl points to consider (as to why):

--the question they asked Him in v.3 was BASED on what He'd ALREADY talked with them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 regarding "the END [singular] of the AGE [singular]" (and so, "the AGE [singular] TO COME" [connected with earth-time, for lack of a better word atm] which He'd already just spoken to them about at that juncture, in the previous chpt, is what follows that); Jesus's response to their Q of Him in v.3 is contained in both chpts (24-25), so "the Sheep" and "goat" judgment/separation pertains to THAT (who will ENTER the MK age [in mortal bodies; and "saints" only will ENTER];

--Matthew 25:31-34 [v.31 specifically] parallels Matthew 19:28 (said to "the 12") "in the regeneration WHEN the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory [see Matt25:31], ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones judgING the twelve tribes of Israel" (this is the role given to "the 12" IN the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age); which verse parallels also Luke 22:30,16,18

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Not you Brother - PEACE

Okay... I thought you WERE referring to me, since it had been the content of *my* post that ewq was speaking to specifically, there.

Thanks for clarifying. = )

 

[DavidTree]

No fighting-anything here David. We are none of us right all of the time. I believe the reign is happening now and many theolgians and believers agree it is symbolic and you and some others think it is literal and happens in the future. Neither of is likely to change our position.

i accept and embrace that Christ is reigning and ruling right now and that His Second Coming is part of the Plan and Mystery of God,
that HE foretold to the Prophets, the Apostles and in His Revelation to us.

i accept and recognize the symbolism in Revelation where it is placed and also that which He says is Literal - AMEN