How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[iTheophilus]

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

- 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (NKJV)

We shall not all sleep because some of us will still be alive when Jesus returns at the 7th trump! It will take less time than a wink of an eye to transform all of the physical or natural bodies on this planet into spiritual bodies. It is immediate. This transformation will occur "at the last trump," or when there are no more trumps, according to Paul. That trumpet is identified as the seventh trumpet. This is the exact moment when Jesus Christ returns to earth to establish His Millennium government right here on earth. We're talking about God's trumpets here, and Satan returns to earth in person on the sixth trumpet to deceive the entire world. But who comes at the 7th? It is Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords!

Here it is again:

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NKJV)

Yep...sure are.

...bodies still in graves. Spirits went home.

What point ate you making?

I don’t remember now. . . . But I’m glad we agree!

 

[iTheophilus]

@Absolutely …
Hey uhhh…. I made a mistake on the post above. I replied to the wrong post. But hey, who knows? You might agree with what I posted above, too.

 

[AworkINprogress]

You are using that verse out of context David--that verse has nothing to do with the other verse I quoted. Joseph knew they would one day leave Egypt--it was more than 300 years later and he wanted his physical bones to go with the Israelites and not stay in Egypt. Completely out of context. The patriarch David -- is ASLEEP like all dead people --and I posted ALL the verses- that say clearly they are asleep -you can't argue with Scripture.

I am mostly laughing at some of the replies on this forum because some are comical. But, I do enjoy level headed thinkers. When reading replies, I picture myself as the other person reading it and that helps with seeing the person and not just words on a page.

I like your reasoning Laura, and that is not to butter one person up, it’s just that it’s nice to know that there are people that can actually see reason and not ignore it or gloss over it.

I have attempted several times to respond to this thread only to end up deleting all that I have typed only because studying is a weariness to the flesh and is it worth saying anything anyway. (I am not Ipad savvy, so deleting a swathe of a paragraph means using a clothes pin to clamp on the back space delete on the bluetooth keyboard). I have found that when people have made up their minds, then that is it, case closed. So, I often wonder, why bother sharing if we are unwilling to change in the sharing?

My place in the body of Christ is probably the obscure parts like the under arms, My perspective from that place is in darkness and sometimes sweaty and smelly, but my function there is for a purpose. To another, they may have the grand view of being a part of the face where they are seen and more noticeable. The unattractive parts and the attractive parts are not the same, but they are needed in order for the body to function properly.

Some can explain things quite well, I admire that in people. However, I do not possess that gift. I prefer to make statements and look for reactions and then proceed from there.

I try not to quote another person because the hind legs rear up and I might just get a kick, I’ve seen that a time or two growing up on the farm. We are all the family of God in Christ, the true Israel of God. Each person possensing of what they feel is the truth. From that we must examine that “truth” to see if it is indeed the truth. If we have the meekness to go along with what we are examining, there might be at times the bitter truth that might be the realization that what we have come to know as the truth, may just be something that would be better to let go then to hang on.

I have experienced this painful transition on many occasions and each time is never easy and adjusting to the frequency to God’s Holy Spirit is never an easy task for any one of us. But, I would never change that for the world. Being knocked down by God, being pushed around by the devil, all of these things that sharpens our iron was the best thing that i could ever need and still need.

 

[Laura798]

You are using that verse out of context David--that verse has nothing to do with the other verse I quoted. Joseph knew they would one day leave Egypt--it was more than 300 years later and he wanted his physical bones to go with the Israelites and not stay in Egypt. Completely out of context. The patriarch David -- is ASLEEP like all dead people --and I posted ALL the verses- that say clearly they are asleep -you can't argue with Scripture.

I am mostly laughing at some of the replies on this forum because some are comical. But, I do enjoy level headed thinkers. When reading replies, I picture myself as the other person reading it and that helps with seeing the person and not just words on a page.

I like your reasoning Laura, and that is not to butter one person up, it’s just that it’s nice to know that there are people that can actually see reason and not ignore it or gloss over it.

I have attempted several times to respond to this thread only to end up deleting all that I have typed only because studying is a weariness to the flesh and is it worth saying anything anyway. (I am not Ipad savvy, so deleting a swathe of a paragraph means using a clothes pin to clamp on the back space delete on the bluetooth keyboard). I have found that when people have made up their minds, then that is it, case closed. So, I often wonder, why bother sharing if we are unwilling to change in the sharing?

My place in the body of Christ is probably the obscure parts like the under arms, My perspective from that place is in darkness and sometimes sweaty and smelly, but my function there is for a purpose. To another, they may have the grand view of being a part of the face where they are seen and more noticeable. The unattractive parts and the attractive parts are not the same, but they are needed in order for the body to function properly.

Some can explain things quite well, I admire that in people. However, I do not possess that gift. I prefer to make statements and look for reactions and then proceed from there.

I try not to quote another person because the hind legs rear up and I might just get a kick, I’ve seen that a time or two growing up on the farm. We are all the family of God in Christ, the true Israel of God. Each person possensing of what they feel is the truth. From that we must examine that “truth” to see if it is indeed the truth. If we have the meekness to go along with what we are examining, there might be at times the bitter truth that might be the realization that what we have come to know as the truth, may just be something that would be better to let go then to hang on.

I have experienced this painful transition on many occasions and each time is never easy and adjusting to the frequency to God’s Holy Spirit is never an easy task for any one of us. But, I would never change that for the world. Being knocked down by God, being pushed around by the devil, all of these things that sharpens our iron was the best thing that i could ever need and still need.

Dear Aworkinprogress—love your name, btw! Thank you so much for your kind words. The personality God gave me sees the bigger picture, so I’m innately able to recognize patterns in things— and i find it helpful in seeing Gods vast landscape of redemption in Scripture. And you yourself articulate yourself very well— i really appreciated all you wrote here. I love Gods word more than anything— only I know God wants me to love others just as much!
Youre right in saying most wont change their minds, but i learn new things— for example when researching the word kingdom for verses to better support my position im blown away at how many verses i missed. On my lunch break but wanted to get back to you as your message encouraged me!
Blessings,Laura
Ps your smart too— love what you said about not quoting others and hind legs kicking up!😄

 

[Laura798]

You are using that verse out of context David--that verse has nothing to do with the other verse I quoted. Joseph knew they would one day leave Egypt--it was more than 300 years later and he wanted his physical bones to go with the Israelites and not stay in Egypt. Completely out of context. The patriarch David -- is ASLEEP like all dead people --and I posted ALL the verses- that say clearly they are asleep -you can't argue with Scripture.

I am mostly laughing at some of the replies on this forum because some are comical. But, I do enjoy level headed thinkers. When reading replies, I picture myself as the other person reading it and that helps with seeing the person and not just words on a page.

I like your reasoning Laura, and that is not to butter one person up, it’s just that it’s nice to know that there are people that can actually see reason and not ignore it or gloss over it.

I have attempted several times to respond to this thread only to end up deleting all that I have typed only because studying is a weariness to the flesh and is it worth saying anything anyway. (I am not Ipad savvy, so deleting a swathe of a paragraph means using a clothes pin to clamp on the back space delete on the bluetooth keyboard). I have found that when people have made up their minds, then that is it, case closed. So, I often wonder, why bother sharing if we are unwilling to change in the sharing?

My place in the body of Christ is probably the obscure parts like the under arms, My perspective from that place is in darkness and sometimes sweaty and smelly, but my function there is for a purpose. To another, they may have the grand view of being a part of the face where they are seen and more noticeable. The unattractive parts and the attractive parts are not the same, but they are needed in order for the body to function properly.

Some can explain things quite well, I admire that in people. However, I do not possess that gift. I prefer to make statements and look for reactions and then proceed from there.

I try not to quote another person because the hind legs rear up and I might just get a kick, I’ve seen that a time or two growing up on the farm. We are all the family of God in Christ, the true Israel of God. Each person possensing of what they feel is the truth. From that we must examine that “truth” to see if it is indeed the truth. If we have the meekness to go along with what we are examining, there might be at times the bitter truth that might be the realization that what we have come to know as the truth, may just be something that would be better to let go then to hang on.

I have experienced this painful transition on many occasions and each time is never easy and adjusting to the frequency to God’s Holy Spirit is never an easy task for any one of us. But, I would never change that for the world. Being knocked down by God, being pushed around by the devil, all of these things that sharpens our iron was the best thing that i could ever need and still need.

oh and clothes pin and armpit comments — hilarious!😆

 

[DavidTree]

You are not answering the question. In order for your point to have any legitimacy you must?
There is no time involved in the frame of death until rapture. You are failing to apply that fact.

The saints come with Christ at the 2nd advent...not at the rapture.

In Heaven there may not be time as we know it here on earth = but there is full awareness of some form of time as Rev ch6 shows.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them;
and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

So we see there is waiting a little while longer for the completion of God's Plan.

Some form of time is being experienced in heaven.

 

[peldom10]

Only the Bodies/Bones/Dust are in the Grave = Not the Soul/spirit of the Individual Saint

When the LORD gives the Command/SHOUT the Graves will Open and the Bodies will Rise and in the Air the Saints who are coming with the LORD receive their Glorified New Bodies in the Ascension above the Earth.

There is a REASON for this that i will not share at this moment but if you pray and meditate on the Whole of Scripture, God will reveal it to you = PEACE

i am off line now till later

No saints with the rapture.
With 2nd advent.

 

[peldom10]

In Heaven there may not be time as we know it here on earth = but there is full awareness of some form of time as Rev ch6 shows.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them;
and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

So we see there is waiting a little while longer for the completion of God's Plan.

Some form of time is being experienced in heaven.

A reference to position...not time.

 

[peldom10]

In Heaven there may not be time as we know it here on earth = but there is full awareness of some form of time as Rev ch6 shows.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them;
and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

So we see there is waiting a little while longer for the completion of God's Plan.

Some form of time is being experienced in heaven.

Ok...please explain to me the reference in scriptures about no time in the spiritual world....it can't be both ways.

 

[DavidTree]

No saints with the rapture.
With 2nd advent.

I am not certain of what you mean by this -can you please give a little more detail - thank you

 

[ewq1938]

A reference to position...not time.

Waiting is a reference to time.

 

[GaryA]

GaryA I think you need to understand SYMBOLISM and that Revelation is SYMBOLIC -- again you can't take the whole book literally. i can understand when a child's mind is developing, they may have difficulty understanding the difference, but I am perplexed at how many adults are unable to see the difference as well.

Is there anything in Revelation that you actually believe is not symbolic?

 

[ewq1938]

GaryA I think you need to understand SYMBOLISM and that Revelation is SYMBOLIC -- again you can't take the whole book literally. i can understand when a child's mind is developing, they may have difficulty understanding the difference, but I am perplexed at how many adults are unable to see the difference as well.

I changed the color above to show where the Ad Hominem is.

 

[ewq1938]

Is there anything in Revelation that you actually believe is not symbolic?

It's common for Amill to claim how symbolic Revelation is, usually saying it's the most symbolic book and "mostly symbolic" but I think that's an exaggeration. I find the book to be mostly literal like the letters to the churches and the many times John saw activities happening in heaven and on the Earth and the description of life in the eternity. There's a handful of very symbolic language like the dragon and the beasts and the winepress etc. Isn't Revelation actually more like 70-80 percent literal and maybe 20-30 percent symbolic?

All numbers in Revelation are literal and exact.

42 months is 42 months.
144,000 is 144,000.
3 and a half days is 3 and a half days.
7 seals are 7 seals.
7 trumpets are 7 trumpets.
7 vials are 7 vials.
24 elders are 24 elders.
1260 days is 1260 days.
And yes, a thousand years is a thousand years.

Amounts that are non-literal or non-exact:

Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

These are unknown amounts.

 

[Laura798]

I changed the color above to show where the Ad Hominem is.

Ewq,

Stating that adults have trouble--case in point this forum--differentiating between literal and figurative language is a fact, therefore not an ad hominem attack. An ad hominem attack would be comments such as "You were born in Mauritius and your ancestors used slave labor!" or "That's baloney!", or "Maybe you need new eyeglasses--you're getting that all wrong!"---those are ad hominem attacks.

 

[Laura798]

Is there anything in Revelation that you actually believe is not symbolic?

Yes.

"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen."

 

[ewq1938]

Ewq,

Stating that adults have trouble--case in point this forum--differentiating between literal and figurative language is a fact, therefore not an ad hominem attack. An ad hominem attack would be comments such as "You were born in Mauritius and your ancestors used slave labor!" or "That's baloney!", or "Maybe you need new eyeglasses--you're getting that all wrong!"---those are ad hominem attacks.

I'd expect a reply like that from a child with a developing brain but not from an adult.

Now, I am not really saying that to you. I used a version of your wording to show you how insulting it actually is/was.

Comparing Adults to children is a very common Ad Hominem. Any kind of a personal insult is an Ad Hominem.


Ad hominem

Fallacious argumentative strategy that avoids genuine discussion of the topic by instead attacking the character, motive etc. of the person(s) associated with the argument

 

[Laura798]

I'd expect a reply like that from a child with a developing brain but not from an adult.

Now, I am not really saying that to you. I used a version of your wording to show you how insulting it actually is/was.

Comparing Adults to children is a very common Ad Hominem. Any kind of a personal insult is an Ad Hominem.


Ad hominem

Fallacious argumentative strategy that avoids genuine discussion of the topic by instead attacking the character, motive etc. of the person(s) associated with the argument

Pretty low of you to change my wording and say something I did not say.

 

[Laura798]

I'd expect a reply like that from a child with a developing brain but not from an adult.

Now, I am not really saying that to you. I used a version of your wording to show you how insulting it actually is/was.

Comparing Adults to children is a very common Ad Hominem. Any kind of a personal insult is an Ad Hominem.


Ad hominem

Fallacious argumentative strategy that avoids genuine discussion of the topic by instead attacking the character, motive etc. of the person(s) associated with the argument

The FACT remains that grown adults should be able to tell the difference between literal and figurative language--if you want to take that as an ad hominem attack, so be it. What's so much worse is that because of this, the truth of scripture is being badly misinterpreted.

 

[ewq1938]

Pretty low of you to change my wording and say something I did not say.

No, it's an attempt to show you the personal insults in some of your posts so you can stop using that type of language. No one likes a mirror held up to them.