How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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Jul 23, 2018
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Ok... I had someone from this site say for me to back off, so I will leave you at rest..........
They have no authority here.
You can put anyone on ignore.
(Unless a mod told you that.)
 
Jul 23, 2018
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And I see that Itheophilus agrees with you, both of you having undoubtedly not watched either video--it is plain by testing scripture against scripture that it is impossible to go to heaven before Christ comes* to gather the elect at His second coming at which time immediately following is the destruction of the present heavens and the earth. Scripture is clear on this. I'm sorry to say it, but you are the ones deceived. I saw this quote on the forum and I feel it is quite applicable in this case:

A Man Convinced Against His Will Is Of The Same Opinion Still - No one wants to be wrong, and we will defend our “truth” even when THEE Truth is staring us in the face. I’ve heard people say, “My Church believed it this way, bible or no bible, it’s the truth.“

*And what's the point if all the dead are already in heaven--how are they rising from their sleep if they're already there and how did they get in without their immortal bodies?
Start a thread
Soul sleep vs spirits of saints now in heaven.

Watch the " slam dunks" dissappear.
Big time
 
Jul 23, 2018
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No saints are returning at the rapture.
Saints are returning with Christ at the 2nd advent to fight the great battle of Armageddon.
the disembodied saints now in heaven come with Jesus at the pretrib rapture and enter their resurrected bodies.
BTW...All dead raising has that dynamic.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Again you are isolating one thing he said and ignoring the numerous verses he quoted that disprove your false doctrine ANDpagan myth that believers go to heaven and circumvent the resurrection at Christs second coming. Amazing that with all the proof you are cult like in choosing your false beliefs over Gods word.
Ironically your deal and vid are false.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Could you refer me to the exact interpretation of where you or some member here presented the correct view.?
Possibly a posting number?
In order for you SEE the Correct View you must elevate to Higher Ground.

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight; everything is uncovered and exposed before the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess.
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV)

All others will receive eternal life!

During the Millennium, which begins when we are all changed in the twinkling of an eye at the 7th Trump, those overcomers who have taken part in the First Resurrection will be priests (teachers) with Jesus. Those who never had a chance to hear the Truth of God’s Word will have the opportunity to hear it at this time. At the end of the Millennium, Satan will be loosed for a short season, and he will be out again to deceive those he can. (There can be no reason for the Millennium to take place at all except for God to separate (with the help of those of us who were part of the First Resurrection) the persons who will perish at the Great White Throne Judgement from those who will receive eternal life at that time because they did not follow Satan when he was loosed for that short season and were not deceived (This is the Second Resurrection. The fact that the Bible calls one the First Resurrection indicates there is to be a Second Resurrection). Makes sense!
You just placed the rapture during the mil.
That is after the megeddo battle and WAY after Jesus returns on white horses...AHEM...With his saints.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Please dont respond without reading my other posts that address this misunderstanding of scripture—isolating verses always to leads to false doctrine. No one seems to want to study scripture for themselves
IOW
You can not answer to the dynamic of soul sleep.
 
May 22, 2020
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John's experience (him having been called to go up), and it being in the Spirit, works as a simulator of what the Rapture/Being taken up/harpazo

John's experience serves us as a simulator of the certainty and order of the rapture.
Well it is a stretch to compare....but, the big difference is that John was converted into...... spirit form temporarily for the invite....... and the rapture is a permanent transition from physical world to the spirit world.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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What does the WORD say about this?

Of course you are right that Jesus comes at the rapture. Paul wrote "unto the coming of the lord." Where you miss it is WHEN? Paul tells us when in chapter 5: the rapture will come just before the day of the Lord and the start of God's wrath. It is going to be church age, and one instant later, Day of the Lord - no time between except for the moments of the rapture.

WHERE do we find the start of the Day of the Lord in Revelation? In chapter 19 - the chapter of His coming to Armageddon? NO! We find the DAY beginning at the 6th seal in chapter 6. The truth of scripture is that every event from chapter 7 to chapter 18 will take place after the rapture and before Armageddon.

I hope you understand, man is a SPIRIT BEING created to live forever (make after God's image who is a Spirit) and can certainly be escorted to heaven after separation from their physical body. Think of it: all the saints of the OT and now billions from the NT are already there, awaiting the time of their resurrection. But they are NOT complete yet: they await their resurrection body. God is going to reform that body from the dust it is turned into, and then change it to a resurrection body and the spirits will then join again with that body they were separated from at death. AT that moment DEATH will be defeated for them. They will live as long as God lives.

Paul TELLS US this: "absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."
I just read something yesterday that is interesting.
In the Book of Revelation it says John wept bitterly because he understood that no man was found in heaven and no man was found on Earth that could open the seals. So a search among men in heaven was made and of all those men in heaven none were found worthy. John understood what was going in that Dynamic which is the kinsman-redeemer. Then at that point the actual kinsman-redeemer entered the scene. He was the worthy one that all of Heaven did not realize was the kinsman-redeemer that could open the seals. So in other words the men in heaven, are in heaven at the breaking of the seals. But beyond that in Revelation 14 verses one through about 5 or 6 we see the 144,000 Jewish believers in heaven Before the Throne and it even says these were redeemed from the Earth. So we see men in heaven at the start of Revelation, and about mid-trib are just before the Wrath of God.
 
May 22, 2020
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the disembodied saints now in heaven come with Jesus at the pretrib rapture and enter their resurrected bodies.
BTW...All dead raising has that dynamic.
My KJV Bible tells me that the dead and living in Christ are raptured. They return with Christ at His 2nd advent.
Please show scripture for them coming with Christ at the time of the rapture?
 
Aug 2, 2021
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You just placed the rapture during the mil.
That is after the megeddo battle and WAY after Jesus returns on white horses...AHEM...With his saints.
And I heard a sound like the roar of a great multitude, like the rushing of many waters, and like a mighty rumbling of thunder, crying out:
“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and be glad
and give Him the glory.
For the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and His bride has made herself ready.
She was given clothing of fine linen,
bright and pure.”

For the fine linen she wears is the righteous acts of the saints.
Then the angel told me to write, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

Where does the LORD say Blessed are those who are pre-trib raptured in order to be His Bride and invited to the marriage supper???

Where does the LORD in any verse in Revelation say: "these are they who were pre-trib raptured"

WHERE - Can you find God saying 'pre-trib rapture anywhere in Scripture?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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My KJV Bible tells me that the dead and living in Christ are raptured. They return with Christ at His 2nd advent.
Please show scripture for them coming with Christ at the time of the rapture?
look at it this way.
If they dont, and are in heaven as martyrs now, what enters their body as spirits?

Their spirits went someplace when they physically died.

Their spirits return to their bodies when?
 
Aug 2, 2021
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My KJV Bible tells me that the dead and living in Christ are raptured. They return with Christ at His 2nd advent.
Please show scripture for them coming with Christ at the time of the rapture?
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
we also believe that
God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/died in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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IOW
You can not answer to the dynamic of soul sleep.
I've answered numerous times in numerous ways, using numerous verses--and yet you all still hang tenaciously on to your pagan myth that is easily refuted by scripture--how a true Christian can believe they can circumvent the Judgment--that they are not looking forward to the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ because they believe they are already with Him in heaven is beyond my understanding.

You do know if that is how it is done then the wicked face damnation also at death and also circumvent the judgment.

This is a completely false doctrine. Again and again I say, it is in the isolation of verses that false doctrine originates.


You are like the Pharisees who continued to question the blind man after he received his sight.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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Ironically your deal and vid are false.

Yes they are false to YOU. The same as they would be false to a Mormon or a Jehovah's Witness. They do not fit your false narrative. the videos use scripture, scripture scripture--and all you do is spew 'you're wrong' you're wrong' like a first grader who is arguing with his teacher that the earth is flat.

The willful blindness to the truth on this forum, despite irrefutable theological evidence is mind boggling.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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Start a thread
Soul sleep vs spirits of saints now in heaven.

Watch the " slam dunks" dissappear.
Big time
Here you go again. It doesn't matter if a handful of people on this forum believe lies--do you think that somehow makes your belief in a pagan myth anymore true?
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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Paradise?

Are you sure that is the word you want to use?

What will you then do with this verse/passage? :

2 Corinthians 12:

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Paradise/Heaven--do you think they are two different things? Paul said "Whether in the body our out of the body I do not know"--Of course it was because it was so real. No one has ascended to heaven but the Son.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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This short video from Unlearn the Lies makes clear using scripture that we do not enter Paradise until the Resurrection and cannot do so until we receive our new immortal bodies---how important it is to understand this truth.

He also explains one of the most misquoted verses in Scripture,

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."---2nd Corinthians 5:8



It starts with One for Israel--that is an Ad-- you need to click 'skip ad'
I watched the vid.

He brings up the usual verses.

Which one is a game changer?

Where dies he RECONCILE the other view vs HIS view?

All i am seeing is a rehash of ONE SIDE of the issue.

In rev the martyrs ARE IN HEAVEN UNDER THE ALTAR. During the trib or before it. They speak and are spoken to ....IN HEAVEN....BEFORE the pretrib rapture.
AHEM.......Pre resurrection!!!

That alone destroys your vid.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
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Nobody i know of on this thread has ever placed the resurrection of the dead in Christ after the Ascension.

Unless you are postrib and think rev 14:14 , (the jewish gathering), is heaven making a mistake.

They are the only ones doing that

This man only quotes bible verses--they are clear and straightforward--others on this forum believe that a believer goes directly to heaven when they die, circumventing the judgment of both the believer and the unbeliever AND without their glorified bodies--which is CLEARLY UNBIBLICAL. Only unbelievers and roman catholics believe such a thing--and obviously some christians. It shows a serious ignorance and backwardness regarding the order of things.