How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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I have no doubts about this. My point is that the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints is for the CULMINATION OF SALVATION (which is the resurrection, perfection and glorification of the saints). See Romans 8. At this time Christ comes FOR His saints.
However, the Second Coming of Christ is for the DAMNATION of those who do not obey the Gospel, as well as the enemies of Christ: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. At this time Christ comes WITH His saints.
However, the Second Coming of Christ is for the DAMNATION of those who do not obey the Gospel, as well as the enemies of Christ: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. At this time Christ comes WITH His saints.
You are separating the rewarding found at the rapture from the judging and violence done at the same day.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Scripture says both rewards for saved and wrath for unsaved happen when Christ returns at the 7th trump so you are wrong to try to separate them into two different days.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Scripture says both rewards for saved and wrath for unsaved happen when Christ returns at the 7th trump so you are wrong to try to separate them into two different days.
WOW...that is not true.
My Bible always has and always will tell us the rapture will occur. New age religion approaches will not change that.
The Bible always has said;
I Thess. 14; 16, 17...et al.. Those writers are well established in history...long before late comers....as who?...Darby.
What is wrong with understanding English writings as in King James 1611 edition?
My Bible always has and always will tell us the rapture will occur. New age religion approaches will not change that.
The Bible always has said;
I Thess. 14; 16, 17...et al.. Those writers are well established in history...long before late comers....as who?...Darby.
What is wrong with understanding English writings as in King James 1611 edition?
So what you are really saying is that one needs to be able to read and understand Greek before you can understand the Bible properly. Have you heard of context? Also some KJV Bibles actually have
a heading referring to Apostasy for this passage. Apart from that no reputable Theologian advocated
a pre tribulation Rapture before the early eighteen hundreds although a few notable people attacked
it. The predominant belief was what is now called Historicism but then didn't have a name because
it was considered by people to be the natural set of beliefs.
a heading referring to Apostasy for this passage. Apart from that no reputable Theologian advocated
a pre tribulation Rapture before the early eighteen hundreds although a few notable people attacked
it. The predominant belief was what is now called Historicism but then didn't have a name because
it was considered by people to be the natural set of beliefs.
Nehemiah my best friend - have you gone mad like Mr. Twister and reject the word of the Lord???
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18
Put your complete trust in the Word - reject man made theories.
Peace and love to you my Brother
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18
Put your complete trust in the Word - reject man made theories.
Peace and love to you my Brother
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Nehemiah my best friend - have you gone mad like Mr. Twister and reject the word of the Lord???
Seven Steps to Peace in Christ and Freedom from error.
#1 Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
#2 By the word of the Lord = we declare to you (Body of Christ) that
#3 we who are alive and remain (Body of Christ) = until the coming of the Lord
#4 will by no means precede (go before) = /Who?/ = those who have fallen asleep = the Dead in Christ.
#5 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,
#6 and the dead in Christ will be the FIRST to rise.
#7 After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18
Put your complete trust in the Word - reject man made theories.
Peace and love to my Brother and Sisters in Christ who LOVE HIM and HIS WORD and Do Not tell a Lie.
Seven Steps to Peace in Christ and Freedom from error.
#1 Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
#2 By the word of the Lord = we declare to you (Body of Christ) that
#3 we who are alive and remain (Body of Christ) = until the coming of the Lord
#4 will by no means precede (go before) = /Who?/ = those who have fallen asleep = the Dead in Christ.
#5 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,
#6 and the dead in Christ will be the FIRST to rise.
#7 After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18
Put your complete trust in the Word - reject man made theories.
Peace and love to my Brother and Sisters in Christ who LOVE HIM and HIS WORD and Do Not tell a Lie.
For some, the fear of rejecting the pre-trib rapture is that they know they are not prepared to endure what is coming: God is a nice person to sing about on Sundays but stands afar off from their lives. If the high point of your interaction with God is sitting in a pew, singing songs, listening to what someone else has to say about God, pot lucks, etc. you need to get out of there. You’ll be kept immature for the benefit of the institution. And, you are correct to discern that you will not be ready.
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I've always enjoyed the song and the passion behind it (I agree with that aspect of it).
The problem with the lyrics is, that the phrase "midnight cry" is from a CONTEXT which is not speaking of "the Bride [/Wife] [singular]" (and "the MARRIAGE" itself, that the "Bride/Wife [singular]" pertains--the presently "betrothed" who is [and will be] the "A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]" per 2Cor11:2)...
...but is instead in the CONTEXT speaking of the "10 [and 5] VirginS [PLURAL]" who He is NOT coming at the point to "MARRY" (that's not the PURPOSE or the point of the Matt25:1-13 passage--which is, instead, about "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [aka the earthly MK age--its inauguration, commencing at His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19--see also Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347].])
--the "5 VirginS" are not who He is "MARRYING"--instead, they "went in *with [G3326 - meta- ACCOMPANYING] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (not "the MARRIAGE" itself, which will have already taken place, by that point)-- https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/25-10.htm (Matt25:10)
[ *note: NOT the "G4862 - syn- UNIONed-with" word (1Th4:17, Col3:4, etc), used regarding US/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY]
--"at midnight" is NOT when "the Bride of Christ will rise" (we will not step one foot into the "IN THE NIGHT" time period [aka the DOTL Trib aspect, "7-yrs"])...
Rather, the phrase SAID OF US/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY (instead) is this: "in the twinkling of an eye"... which is (distinct from the above):
[in the twinkling of an eye-] "the precise moment when one day turns into the next when the sun is eight-degrees below the horizon, AT SUNDOWN"
(again, we will NOT step one foot into the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" time period that commences at the moment "the DOTL ARRIVES" [aka the first SEAL at the START of the "7 yrs"] which is also when the "whose COMING / ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia" of the "man of sin" [2Th2:9a] also occurs ["IN HIS TIME" aka "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" time period... <--and its those things, for one, because ALL the "Lightbulb" will have just been raptured / snatched UP / AWAY / OUTTA-HERE!
... and well before the "at midnight a cry" will take place (IN/DURING/WITHIN the Trib yrs) and pertaining to the "10 [and 5] VirginS [PLURAL]," who ain't US, and whom Jesus is NOT "MARRYING," see... ]).
Very DISTINCT CONTEXTS.
The problem with the lyrics is, that the phrase "midnight cry" is from a CONTEXT which is not speaking of "the Bride [/Wife] [singular]" (and "the MARRIAGE" itself, that the "Bride/Wife [singular]" pertains--the presently "betrothed" who is [and will be] the "A CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]" per 2Cor11:2)...
...but is instead in the CONTEXT speaking of the "10 [and 5] VirginS [PLURAL]" who He is NOT coming at the point to "MARRY" (that's not the PURPOSE or the point of the Matt25:1-13 passage--which is, instead, about "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [aka the earthly MK age--its inauguration, commencing at His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19--see also Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347].])
--the "5 VirginS" are not who He is "MARRYING"--instead, they "went in *with [G3326 - meta- ACCOMPANYING] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (not "the MARRIAGE" itself, which will have already taken place, by that point)-- https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/25-10.htm (Matt25:10)
[ *note: NOT the "G4862 - syn- UNIONed-with" word (1Th4:17, Col3:4, etc), used regarding US/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY]
--"at midnight" is NOT when "the Bride of Christ will rise" (we will not step one foot into the "IN THE NIGHT" time period [aka the DOTL Trib aspect, "7-yrs"])...
Rather, the phrase SAID OF US/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY (instead) is this: "in the twinkling of an eye"... which is (distinct from the above):
[in the twinkling of an eye-] "the precise moment when one day turns into the next when the sun is eight-degrees below the horizon, AT SUNDOWN"
(again, we will NOT step one foot into the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" time period that commences at the moment "the DOTL ARRIVES" [aka the first SEAL at the START of the "7 yrs"] which is also when the "whose COMING / ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia" of the "man of sin" [2Th2:9a] also occurs ["IN HIS TIME" aka "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" time period... <--and its those things, for one, because ALL the "Lightbulb" will have just been raptured / snatched UP / AWAY / OUTTA-HERE!
... and well before the "at midnight a cry" will take place (IN/DURING/WITHIN the Trib yrs) and pertaining to the "10 [and 5] VirginS [PLURAL]," who ain't US, and whom Jesus is NOT "MARRYING," see... ]).Very DISTINCT CONTEXTS.
Consider a few things (or at least, may the readers consider...):
--[under point #6] there's no definite article "the" with the word "first" (thus changing to an ADJECTIVE that which is actually an ADVERB) in the text: "shall rise [verb] first [adverb]"--This actually means that "the dead in Christ" will be bodily resurrected BEFORE the next thing in the text [under your point #7] takes place... but what you (DT) are suggesting (as I've noted from your other posts) is that this part of the text is saying (incorrectly, but as you surmise) that "the dead in Christ will be the FIRST... to meet the Lord IN THE AIR" and only afterward will the "we which are alive" join them where they [supposedly] will already have been "caught up," BEFORE the others will be caught up, to--IN THE AIR; but this is NOT what the text is stating;
--[under point #7] "caught up [verb-action] TOGETHER [adverb... this MUST be JOINED TO THE VERB; so "caught up TOGETHER [at the same time that they are also caught up]"] with [G4862] them... TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR (we [the "ONE BODY"] arrive at that location AT THE SAME TIME); "so [in this manner (i.e. BY MEANS of the "caught up / SNATCH" action, at ONE SINGULAR POINT IN TIME)] shall WE [all together, at the same time] ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord";
...it is not as DT suggests, that "the dead in Christ" will arrive at the "IN THE AIR" location AHEAD of when the "we which are alive" component of the "ONE BODY" will arrive there... but that we'll be "caught up / SNATCHED / raptured TOGETHER [at the SAME TIME]" in ONE "SNATCH-action" (and pertaining SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]"]--Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence].)
I believe the text over what it is you are suggesting of it.
Your viewpoint (as you've expressed it more clearly in past posts) pretty much butchers the grammar. I cannot be "convinced" of your viewpoint, based on such...
--[under point #6] there's no definite article "the" with the word "first" (thus changing to an ADJECTIVE that which is actually an ADVERB) in the text: "shall rise [verb] first [adverb]"--This actually means that "the dead in Christ" will be bodily resurrected BEFORE the next thing in the text [under your point #7] takes place... but what you (DT) are suggesting (as I've noted from your other posts) is that this part of the text is saying (incorrectly, but as you surmise) that "the dead in Christ will be the FIRST... to meet the Lord IN THE AIR" and only afterward will the "we which are alive" join them where they [supposedly] will already have been "caught up," BEFORE the others will be caught up, to--IN THE AIR; but this is NOT what the text is stating;
--[under point #7] "caught up [verb-action] TOGETHER [adverb... this MUST be JOINED TO THE VERB; so "caught up TOGETHER [at the same time that they are also caught up]"] with [G4862] them... TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR (we [the "ONE BODY"] arrive at that location AT THE SAME TIME); "so [in this manner (i.e. BY MEANS of the "caught up / SNATCH" action, at ONE SINGULAR POINT IN TIME)] shall WE [all together, at the same time] ever be WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] the Lord";
...it is not as DT suggests, that "the dead in Christ" will arrive at the "IN THE AIR" location AHEAD of when the "we which are alive" component of the "ONE BODY" will arrive there... but that we'll be "caught up / SNATCHED / raptured TOGETHER [at the SAME TIME]" in ONE "SNATCH-action" (and pertaining SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]"]--Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence].)
I believe the text over what it is you are suggesting of it.
Your viewpoint (as you've expressed it more clearly in past posts) pretty much butchers the grammar. I cannot be "convinced" of your viewpoint, based on such...
i do not have a viewpoint of my own, if i did you might have something to say.
i SEE Scripture plain as Day - without 'adding or taking away' unlike yourself.
You are only convinced in believing and promoting a lie by 'adding to and taking away' from God's words.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6
Scripture cannot lie
i SEE Scripture plain as Day - without 'adding or taking away' unlike yourself.
You are only convinced in believing and promoting a lie by 'adding to and taking away' from God's words.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6
Scripture cannot lie
The text does not have the definite article ('the') before or connected with the word "first" (YOU *ADDED* that).
So here you have CHANGED the text, so as to make it comport with YOUR VIEW that this text is saying they'll be "THE FIRST to be caught up... to meet Him IN THE AIR".
However, the text does not convey what you suggest.
--not "THE FIRST [adjective] to"
[but instead]
--"shall rise [verb] FIRST [adverb]"
(referring to their being "resurrected" from the dead / from their graves [prior to the next thing]--NOT their "being CAUGHT UP" [prior to when the rest will be "caught up" separately. NO! The grammar itself does not allow this meaning!])
So here you have CHANGED the text, so as to make it comport with YOUR VIEW that this text is saying they'll be "THE FIRST to be caught up... to meet Him IN THE AIR".
However, the text does not convey what you suggest.
--not "THE FIRST [adjective] to"
[but instead]
--"shall rise [verb] FIRST [adverb]"
(referring to their being "resurrected" from the dead / from their graves [prior to the next thing]--NOT their "being CAUGHT UP" [prior to when the rest will be "caught up" separately. NO! The grammar itself does not allow this meaning!])