How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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Aug 2, 2021
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As I see it, that's an odd question. = )


The word "King" (re: Jesus) is used only TWO times in all of the epistles, and both of them are "FUTURE tense"

(agreeing with both Rev19:15b which is also "future tense" to that context [that is, future to His RETURN to the earth], and what Acts 3:21 says, "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive UNTIL the timeS of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." [i.e. OT prophecies spoken by OT prophets];...

...IOW, Acts 3 is not making the point [as the "Amill-teachings" and others suppose] that "David's throne" has now [since the Cross / Resurrection / Ascension] been "relocated UP TO Heaven"... NO.)







Not sure what you meant by your comment, however. = )
My Dear Brother, You picked up on what i said.
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Yes, My (Brother?/Sister?), i agree with your assessment of the HS. People ask questions and i should answer - Y/N?
Yes, in meekness and in the Spirit of Christ.
And NO
1Tim 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
If you dont believe in a thing.....

God Bless
 
Nov 17, 2017
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All throughout Revelation - You can't see Them?
No sir.
Be more specific please in accordance with the tread topic.

(remember you told me 'word' study is important)
Have studied some of Revelation and are able to grasp as much as He gives me...

God Bless...
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Yes, in meekness and in the Spirit of Christ.
And NO
1Tim 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
If you dont believe in a thing.....

God Bless
All prayers are accepted - all love accepted - all wisdom accepted
 
Aug 2, 2021
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No sir.
Be more specific please in accordance with the tread topic.


Have studied some of Revelation and are able to grasp as much as He gives me...

God Bless...
OK, i am repeating this so as there is no misunderstanding what i am saying.

All throughout Revelation - You can't see Them? (remember you told me 'word' study is important)

Word Study Clues to look for: He who overcomes, and they overcame, saints, brethren

Oh, and please do not forget this word study from our Lord in Matt 23
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’

Please, when u can, read Matt ch 23 as it pertains to this discussion and Revelation.

All Scripture builds upon Itself to give to us a clear picture and understanding
 
Nov 17, 2017
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OK, i am repeating this so as there is no misunderstanding what i am saying.
Im not slow. Just want you to point these out, thats all.
I see saints, but not as a Church Body, with power.

Im going to put it plain as possible.

I dont see believers GOING into the things to come, I see beleivers came by the things they CAME THROUGH.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Im not slow. Just want you to point these out, thats all.
I see saints, but not a Church Body, with power.

Im going to put it plain as possible.

I dont see believers GOING into the things to come, I see beleivers came by the things they CAME THROUGH.
Bear with me in His Love here now and don't jump to conclusion in what i am saying - this is an important moment.

Discounting whom our Lord LOVES (you, me and the saints) is at the root of error.

When you said 'i don't see the church after chapter 3' = you discount what Christ did on the cross for those in Revelation who are His and are known to Him as 'to him who overcomes', 'they overcame', the 'saints' and 'brethren'.

Dwell on this - this is very very very serious.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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My Dear Brother, You picked up on what i said.
Not exactly.

We still differ in parts (where you're misunderstanding what I'd put).

The text (Acts 3:21) says, "until the TIMES of..." ... which isn't talking about its commencing only at the point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 (but even prior to that--starting from the moment when He Himself will "Descend" TO "the meeting" [of the Lord] "IN THE AIR" where WE / the Church which is His body ONLY will be "caught up" i.e. "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [and NO ONE ELSE]).

You don't believe the remnant of Israel will come to faith in Christ only AT the point in time of His RETURN to the earth (Rev19), do you?

(for at THAT point, it will be "too late"... And even Hosea 5:14-6:3 states otherwise, when it says, "IN THEIR AFFLICTION, they will seek Me EARLY"; And Micah 5:3 states [of them], "Therefore will he give them up, UNTIL the time that she which travaileth [<--identifying her] hath brought forth [<--not "Baby Jesus" here]: THEN the remnant of his brethren [<--see also Rev12:17 "remnant of her seed"] shall return unto the children of Israel"; and Isa27:9[12-13] corresponding to Rom11:27 [Matt24:29-31, i.e. this being the conclusion of the matter, not when they "come to faith" in Christ]; etc etc...)
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Not exactly.

We still differ in parts (where you're misunderstanding what I'd put).

The text (Acts 3:21) says, "until the TIMES of..." ... which isn't talking about its commencing only at the point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 (but even prior to that--starting from the moment when He Himself will "Descend" TO "the meeting" [of the Lord] "IN THE AIR" where WE / the Church which is His body ONLY will be "caught up" i.e. "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [and NO ONE ELSE]).

You don't believe the remnant of Israel will come to faith in Christ only AT the point in time of His RETURN to the earth (Rev19), do you?

(for at THAT point, it will be "too late"... And even Hosea 5:14-6:3 states otherwise, when it says, "IN THEIR AFFLICTION, they will seek Me EARLY"; And Micah 5:3 states [of them], "Therefore will he give them up, UNTIL the time that she which travaileth [<--identifying her] hath brought forth [<--not "Baby Jesus" here]: THEN the remnant of his brethren [<--see also Rev12:17 "remnant of her seed"] shall return unto the children of Israel"; and Isa27:9[12-13] corresponding to Rom11:27 [Matt24:29-31, i.e. this being the conclusion of the matter, not when they "come to faith" in Christ]; etc etc...)
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’ Matt 23

You wouldn't twist the words of the Lord - would you?
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Hi!


Question, Where is "The Church" after Rev 3?

God Bless
The same place the church was before Rev 3.
Those who still live on earth are on earth. Those who have died are in heaven.

In the NT “Church” is synonymous with “saints”, “elect”, “chosen” , "Christian" or "servant".
In the first Chapter of Rev, we are called servants. Some NT books don't contain the word [ekklesia] church.
There are however, synonomous terms & clear references. We don't read these in a vacuum apart from the
context of the rest of scripture. Other terms used for the church are -the body of christ, beloved, fellow servants & brethren.

Saints are mentioned 13 times from Chapters 5-20 of Revelation.
Rev 5:8 & Rev 8:3-4 prayers from the church on earth are heard in heaven.

Jesus tells us the Revelation message is for The Churches at the end of the book in Chapter 22.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Church universal, The Body of Christ,
I just wanted to say sorry about the revelation- church post above. (#1132) I realise you weren't talking to me.
It may have been a bit heavy-handed of me to nudge in :geek: but it's too late for me to delete it now. :(
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Here: change this Scripture so you can believe in pre-trib: 1 Thess 4, 2Thess 2, 1 John 2:18, Daniel 7, Revelation ch 6, 19 & 20

i read and understand Mr.Twister's, CV5 and everyones posts in an attempt to justify believing in a falsehood.

If you reject the commandment of our Lord 'do not add or take away' from His words, then you own your error.

There is/are penalties from the Lord for believing and promoting an error in His Body - and you want that?
You are under the illusion that your posts have some value in terms of edifying scholarship. They don't. They are pretty much an unintelligible incoherent mess.

On the other hand, "Mr. Twister" aka TheDivineWatermark is producing stellar posts of the finest quality in terms of scholarship and accurate understanding of the whole counsel of God. I must have dozens and dozens and dozens of his posts bookmarked.....worth their weight in gold.

It appears to me the post tribbers have taken the wrong fork in the road. And then another one and another one and another one. And then they are left in the deep dark woods of Biblical ignorance. The only way out is to carefully retrace your steps and get back to where you started. And then do it all over again.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’ Matt 23

You wouldn't twist the words of the Lord - would you?
What are you talking about?

They "SAY" this prior to His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19.

See my posts also about the parallels between this phrase "not see me... until" ^ as used elsewhere in Scripture and how it is used in that case (as a TYPE)... and what all that shows.

IOW, it seems to me that you are suggesting that they "SAY" this at the precise moment of His "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19, like, AS THEY "SEE" Him COMING (and we're talking, the believing remnant... not those who will "mourn" at that point), is this what you are thinking?
I'm saying, it's not then, but that they "say" this PRIOR to that point (and recall what I'd said previously about this "G3708" word [translated here as "shall you see [active G3708]," in this text--SAME word as used in Acts 22:14 & 15, regarding Paul... about Jesus... (but while Jesus was still UP IN HEAVEN, having already previously ascended, at that point)])
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,993
8,367
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The same place the church was before Rev 3.
Those who still live on earth are on earth. Those who have died are in heaven.


In the NT “Church” is synonymous with “saints”, “elect”, “chosen” , "Christian" or "servant".
In the first Chapter of Rev, we are called servants. Some NT books don't contain the word [ekklesia] church.
There are however, synonomous terms & clear references. We don't read these in a vacuum apart from the
context of the rest of scripture. Other terms used for the church are -the body of christ, beloved, fellow servants & brethren.


Saints are mentioned 13 times from Chapters 5-20 of Revelation.
Rev 5:8 & Rev 8:3-4 prayers from the church on earth are heard in heaven.


Jesus tells us the Revelation message is for The Churches at the end of the book in Chapter 22.
Lol......Lucy that is as close to non-answer as is conceivable. Which under the circumstances is entirely understandable.

Okay here's another question: Who does the Bible say is doing the preaching....after the seals are broken?

And an ancillary question to the above: Has the great commission to the Church been abandoned after the seals have been opened? Because there is zero evidence that the Church is doing any preaching in that span of time.......or is it anywhere to be found for that matter.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,993
8,367
113
As I see it, that's an odd question. = )


The word "King" (re: Jesus) is used only TWO times in all of the epistles, and both of them are "FUTURE tense"

(agreeing with both Rev19:15b which is also "future tense" to that context [that is, future to His RETURN to the earth], and what Acts 3:21 says, "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive UNTIL the timeS of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." [i.e. OT prophecies spoken by OT prophets];...

...IOW, Acts 3 is not making the point [as the "Amill-teachings" and others suppose] that "David's throne" has now [since the Cross / Resurrection / Ascension] been "relocated UP TO Heaven"... NO.)







Not sure what you meant by your comment, however. = )
Another interesting note......the term Lord is used something like 90 times in the book of Acts. The terms Savior is used twice I think. And in every case in all of the NT the terms are always in the order of first Lord and then Savior.

The point is that Jesus must be received firstly as Lord, the commander the one who has sovereign authority the one who is in control. No Lordship no salvation.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,993
8,367
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Lol......Lucy that is as close to non-answer as is conceivable. Which under the circumstances is entirely understandable.

Okay here's another question: Who does the Bible say is doing the preaching....after the seals are broken?

And an ancillary question to the above: Has the great commission to the Church been abandoned after the seals have been opened? Because there is zero evidence that the Church is doing any preaching in that span of time.......or is it anywhere to be found for that matter.
......"or is anywhere to be found for that matter"

Need to get on my laptop and stop typing with my microphone.....sorry.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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You are under the illusion that your posts have some value in terms of edifying scholarship. They don't. They are pretty much an unintelligible incoherent mess.

On the other hand, "Mr. Twister" aka TheDivineWatermark is producing stellar posts of the finest quality in terms of scholarship and accurate understanding of the whole counsel of God. I must have dozens and dozens and dozens of his posts bookmarked.....worth their weight in gold.

It appears to me the post tribbers have taken the wrong fork in the road. And then another one and another one and another one. And then they are left in the deep dark woods of Biblical ignorance. The only way out is to carefully retrace your steps and get back to where you started. And then do it all over again.
TheDivineWatermark is producing stellar posts of the finest quality in terms of scholarship and accurate understanding of the whole counsel of God.

And thus the birth of a new religion - go for it -
i will stay with the lowly Scripture and the and the lowly Dove that descended upon my Lord and that lives in me.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,993
8,367
113
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’ Matt 23

You wouldn't twist the words of the Lord - would you?
Okay, here is a question for you buddy:
Who exactly is going to (yet future) utter that statement? Everybody and anybody? Christians? Israelites? Who exactly?