Hyper grace

[james57]

Did theologians and scholars cause the diminishment of the knowledge of GOD from Adam's fall to Abraham? Theologians and scholars are not evil of themselves. They have served a necessary and valuable service when the knowledge of GOD diminished due to the times. Theologians and scholars are responsible for the bible you read.

It is man's evil nature and his separation from the revelation of Christ himself that caused the diminishment of the power. Evil theologians and scholars have certainly amplified that.

You have the book; where is the power in your life? It's not as simple as you are trying to make it appear. GOD has his time and his purpose.

You don't know anything about my life. Please discuss the issues, not the person.

I never used the word evil concerning scholars and theologians
Paul was insistent, his knowledge came from the holy spirit. The writers of the bible wrote down what was given to them through the holy spirit.
The only people who should be taken note of are those filled with the holy spirit, not people who are looked to because they have great academic minds.

If the doctrines of scholars and theologians have benefitted people so much, I repeat, why are churches evermore dwindling in numbers?

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree with you ladylynn. I had a very similar experience as you.

I tried with all my heart the performance-based religion a number of times and found out in was a very poor substitute for knowing Jesus and His grace in my life! It's all about Him!!!

This is a clear and good Biblical answer to Crossnote's question Grace. I've been learning about what it means to be a believer under the new covenant of grace for over 3 year now. So much to unlearn because for years it was a matter of looking for the weaknesses and failures before going to God in prayer and constantly finding them and avoiding God in prayer!!! And although being saved I dragged guilt and condemnation around most every day.

But all that changed after finding out that God wants us to look away from self and look at Jesus, truth began to set me free from the law of sin and death. "To know we don't deserve His grace yet we receive it, we can't help but be transformed. And gratefulness and worship are the results." God didn't condemn or use guilt or fear to get my attention.,He revealed through His Word the truth of His abiding love.



The "chastening " as the word used in Kings James language means child training. It is the exact same word used in 2 Tim. 3:16 where it says The Word of God ...is for instruction in righteousness. Instruction is "chastening". Jesus said the words I speak to you are spirit and life. The Lord "chastens" us with His word to our spirits. ( be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live. )

We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We do not become righteous by doing righteous acts. We do righteous acts because we are righteous! When we are doing something that will bring destruction either to ourselves or others - the Lord send His Word to "correct" us.


Christians think it is wrong to use words like finding our identity knowing who we are. But it's a must to know who we are and where we belong? What makes us worthy and who loves us? To know we are loved by God in Christ and that it can never change. Unlike anything on this earth because everything that is on earth perishes. Even people we love even our families die and become part of yesterday. We have memories but not the substance. But in Jesus we have the substance at all times. Nothing can take that away from us IN Christ. This truth changes everything.

And the wonder of knowing He does not cause illness or death to His sheep under the new covenant., He does not use a stick to beat us up when we fail. I was always taught that God's vengeance had to be avoided and if not avoided, paid for. We were never taught that Jesus already paid with His death on the cross nailing our sins to that cross. Sin can never claim us again to be our identity. That is surely the Good News!!

There is so much more to learning about who we are in Christ. Our being 'the righteousness OF GOD IN CHRIST. When I first read that in the Bible and heard other Christians say those words.,the concept went against all I was taught for many years in church. How can WE be the righteousness of God??? IN CHRIST. WOW.

 

[ladylynn]

Absolutely saved by grace-a gift.
What law was given to the Gentiles? It would include the following I suggest:


You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness-not full stop Rom 10:4

Sin always has been transgression of the law.
Jesus died for all our sins at calvary, past, present and future.
Therefore Paul states.
No one will be declared righteous in God's sight by observing the law(Rom 3:20)
And
The Christian has a righteousness apart from the law(Rom3:21&22)

Why are the above statements true?

For sin is transgression of the law, and Jesus died for all the Christians sins at calvary. A Christians righteousness is faith in Christ-not obedience to the law

AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!

 

[ladylynn]

John 16:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

There is no place in the New testament that says the Holy Spirit "convicts" the believer of sin. I realize that is commonly taught but here in John it clearly states that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin because they do not believe in Me.

Unfortunately many of our traditions taught to us are not really in the bible. Jesus said :

Mark 7:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

I encourage you to search this out in the scriptures.

Absolutely! learning from the Holy Spirit how to untangle from religious traditions and seeing the scriptures for what they are saying and not what we have been taught from man made interpretations. 'Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition.....' Only the Holy Spirit can renew our minds to see these grace filled truths above our traditions. John 16:8-9 takes on major meaning when seen in proper light.

 

[james57]

Absolutely! learning from the Holy Spirit how to untangle from religious traditions and seeing the scriptures for what they are saying and not what we have been taught from man made interpretations. 'Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition.....' Only the Holy Spirit can renew our minds to see these grace filled truths above our traditions.

Amen
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the spirits power, so that your faith might not rest on mens wisdom, but on Gods power
1cor2:4&5

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If the doctrines of scholars and theologians have benefitted people so much, I repeat, why are churches evermore dwindling in numbers?

Forget their doctrines. Look at all of the work that they've done: lexicons, histories, translations into many languages. Without these works we would not know what we know. You would be at the mercy of theologians and scholars. But I know you don't much care about scholarly things as evidenced by your stubbornness in clinging to the mistranslation of 1 John 3:4 you so often quote.

 

[james57]

AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for your gracious words. It is the holy spirit who is awesome isn't it, he leads us into truth. The flesh( the academic mind) counts for nothing when seeking to learn spiritual truth- lest anyone should boast

 

[crossnote]

So are you seeing our walk all a matter of what Christ has done 'for us' but not what He is also doing 'in us'?

Again there seems to be a short circuiting of Christ's work in us. All are agreed what He has done for us.

Can someone address these two similar points above?
If all the Holy Spirit does is remind us who we are in Christ and what Christ has done for us,as important as that is, there appears to be a working of His in regards to bring us to see our need to confess our ongoing sin.

This appears to me as a theology for our narcissistic age..."hey, don't offend me by calling me a sinner".
It seems to be a systematized way to do an end run around the need to confess our sins as David did, you know, the man after God's heart?
I prefer going to God when convicted of sin and spilling the beans rather than sit alone reminding myself of the work at Calvary because the BLOOD of Jesus continues to cleanse our sin as we walk in His light.

 

[ladylynn]

I see it that the longer it takes us to bow the knee the more we bring suffering to ourselves, until we bow the knee. It can be no other way for one born again[/QUOTE

What needs to be stated is the reason we bring more suffering onto ourselves is because we are walking outside of the truth. These are natural consequences brought on us by our own lack of walking in truth. We suffer tribulation in this world coming from this world., not from God.
God is not causing the agony, misery., emotional and physical pain we go through. They are caused by our refusal to do what we are made to do as born again believers. God is not attacking us with consequences. The consequences for doing wrong are built in already and since God has already judged us IN Christ, we are not being punished by God. That would be needing yet another sacrifice added to Christ's total sacrifice on the cross. God does not make us pay for what Jesus already paid for.

Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember NO MORE. Amen thank You Jesus.

 

[james57]

Forget their doctrines. Look at all of the work that they've done: lexicons, histories, translations into many languages. Without these works we would not know what we know. You would be at the mercy of theologians and scholars. But I know you don't much care about scholarly things as evidenced by your stubbornness in clinging to the mistranslation of 1 John 3:4 you so often quote.

As I told you yesterday. Nearly all the ministers in the churches have read the greek Nt, lexicons, etc, but how many fully preach the pure Gospel message? And why are church numbers dwindling as they are, as the ministers know of what you lay great store on?

I think most agree with me as to sin being transgression of the law- or lawlessness. Assuredly those who translated the peshitta into the KJV would also have known what the Greek stated. Is your understanding better than theirs?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

As I told you yesterday. Nearly all the ministers in the churches have read the free Nt, lexicons, etc, but how many fully preach the pure Gospel message? And why are church numbers dwindling as they are, as the ministers know of what you lay great store on?

Is that your excuse for ignoring what the original language says? How are we to understand what John meant if we ignore the real meaning of his words? And cling to some meaning that theologians and scholars gave it via their translation to suit their own ignorance, or agenda?

 

[james57]

I see it that the longer it takes us to bow the knee the more we bring suffering to ourselves, until we bow the knee. It can be no other way for one born again[/QUOTE

What needs to be stated is the reason we bring more suffering onto ourselves is because we are walking outside of the truth. These are natural consequences brought on us by our own lack of walking in truth. We suffer tribulation in this world coming from this world., not from God.
God is not causing the agony, misery., emotional and physical pain we go through. They are caused by our refusal to do what we are made to do as born again believers. God is not attacking us with consequences. The consequences for doing wrong are built in already and since God has already judged us IN Christ, we are not being punished by God. That would be needing yet another sacrifice added to Christ's total sacrifice on the cross. God does not make us pay for what Jesus already paid for.

Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember NO MORE. Amen thank You Jesus.

Absolutely. This is how the licence to sin is cut out for the christian isn't it, as you have explained.
Those who speak of a licence to sin if you believe Jesus died for all your sins dont understand how a truly born again christian suffers by following after the flesh rather than the spirit. It is not possible for them to happily sin without conscience in the knowledge Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness.
God made a fullproof covenant, there are no holes in it!

 

[james57]

Is that your excuse for ignoring what the original language says? How are we to understand what John meant if we ignore the real meaning of his words? And cling to some meaning that theologians and scholars gave it via their translation to suit their own ignorance, or agenda?

I thought you held the KJV in higher regard than that!

 

[james57]

Is that your excuse for ignoring what the original language says? How are we to understand what John meant if we ignore the real meaning of his words? And cling to some meaning that theologians and scholars gave it via their translation to suit their own ignorance, or agenda?

I don't rely on reading the Greek, I rely on the holy spirit leading me into truth when i read the NIV, as I did when i read the Living bible

 

[ladylynn]

Good question! Col 3;1-4 says that when Christ who is our life is revealed then we too are revealed with Him. In verse 2 it says to set our minds on things above where we are sitting with Christ. I believe we are simply walking out who we are in Christ.

It's the same principle as Christ was slain before the foundation of the world but He still came to this earth and walked out what was already done.

So, the answer is yes to both it's all a matter of what Christ has already done for us and yes we are walking out the truth of that on this earth too.

AWESOME TRUTHS

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I thought you held the KJV in higher regard than that!

The KJV is a great translation, but it's not perfect. Be careful of placing too much faith in (those) scholars and theologians.

 

[james57]

The KJV is a great translation, but it's not perfect. Be careful of placing too much faith in (those) scholars and theologians.

I place my faith in the holy spirit to convict me of truth. If I put my faith in the greek it would be a poor substitute, that isn't the original document anyway that was written. The greek I imagine wasn't word perfect translation

 

[Grace777x70]

I completely understand the confusion and it has to do with the on-going confession of sins.

I encourage you to go to the below website and go to :
04/26/2015
The Truth About 1 John 1:9
andrew farley :: media player

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you and He will. I remember well the first time I heard about this and my religious mind said " This is crazy talk" but my spirit within me was witnessing to it. Our religious beliefs can get in the way of learning from the Spirit of God who is in us.

Can someone address these two similar points above?
If all the Holy Spirit does is remind us who we are in Christ and what Christ has done for us,as important as that is, there appears to be a working of His in regards to bring us to see our need to confess our ongoing sin.

This appears to me as a theology for our narcissistic age..."hey, don't offend me by calling me a sinner".
It seems to be a systematized way to do an end run around the need to confess our sins as David did, you know, the man after God's heart?
I prefer going to God when convicted of sin and spilling the beans rather than sit alone reminding myself of the work at Calvary because the BLOOD of Jesus continues to cleanse our sin as we walk in His light.

 

[Grace777x70]

I think we need the Holy Spirit to teach us all things and He uses people to help us. He also uses the original language that the scriptures were written in too. Everyone in the world can now go and look up the original word and see it's meaning without "knowing" the language.

Remember when Jesus was speaking, everyone knew the language but did not know what He was saying. He told the disciples 14 times He was going to go to the cross and they still didn't understand Him.

So, it takes the Spirit of God to reveal all things to us but he does use tools to help us.

Is that your excuse for ignoring what the original language says? How are we to understand what John meant if we ignore the real meaning of his words? And cling to some meaning that theologians and scholars gave it via their translation to suit their own ignorance, or agenda?

 

[james57]

An evangelist who saw tremendous miracles of healing take place in their services was often asked why all were not healed. The evangelist always replied the same.
I don't know, but that is the first thing I want to ask Jesus when I get to heaven.
Jamie Buckingham who wrote the autobiography of the evangelist remarked:
Scholars and theologians had the answers, hundreds of them, but they never saw any miracles