I expect an answer from you so called learned Christians

[WeStand]

Hi Journey; the only issue i had with your post was the comment under 1 Cor 15/45.

Though it is true that IF you were to Pass-Over prior to the event in Dan: 9 that IS prophesied to be the biggest event to take place since flesh time began; then YES your beleif in GOD (the misson) Getting Over Death in and through Christ WILL save your Soul.

And yes its litterally dieng in the flesh with hope or faith in an Event that has yet to have taken place The 2nd Advent.

However IF you are present for this event, you will already have been through the 1st tribulation of instead-of-christ or The Night of The Lord/ The Day of Jacobs Trouble.

GOD really does expect us to know what it IS that HE Our Father would have US do at that time, as it IS written.

It is revealved to US in OUR Father's time, not ours. I am pressuming that you are aware of the 40 year blindness that the ENTIRE population of the world went through? (1948-88) and at the same time sends forth from Jerusalum both the good and bad figs, with the bad figs having taken over the seat of Moses/The Law.

Until the Fig-Tree in which ALL the Families of Israel sprung forth (12 Patriarcal fathers AND 2 grandchildren) re-established itself in the Land of Judeah/Praise in May 10/1948, the Word of GOD was impossible to even rightlly divide time wise.

GOD & satan work the same way in working in influencing our minds to do one or the others work, and use their own children to accomplisd this in this Tempoaral flesh realm.

In 1948 this Truth or latter rain began networking through people from Jerusalum, the good figs; and with commen-sense if we have any compassion on our fellow brothers and sisters you should have no resentment over the fact that they received it before us, as first it has to network through a natural process, person to person, and this takes time; and taking more imporantly into consideration ALL of the kaous and affliction the people are going through at this time, you can understand why they needed to know before us, its just absoulutley so despicable whats going on around the world to ALL of GODS Children, i can not put my sorrows for them into words

Thank God we KNOW they have HIS LIVING WORD to get them through, which IS, there is Nothing wrong in dieng rightously in Christ.

So after all that i guess i should get to the point, sorry its not in any way that we are more special than Christ; but it IS true that untold million of us will because of Christ's sacrifice will have a VERY gentle exit from here; Due to OUR Father WILL & Testimony in and through Christ. Its nothing short of incredible of how this ENDS in HIS Will, IN LOVE and with NOBODY hurting ANYDODY

I have to cut this a little short or i'll lose it all, computer issues.

Forever in Christ

 

[Kingdomchild]

This post is now very old, but in case there may be someone else as confused as journey41 about these "seeming" contradictions, I thought it would be good to mention something VERY critical...

The word must be taken in "context." Context of who was the person speaking "to, with and about." Whether it was Jesus, a prophet, an apostle or a king... What was the "context" of the subject and the meaning in context?

The Old Testament was the New Testament "Concealed..."
The New Testament was the Old Testament "Revealed..."

Even in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus was bringing forth revelation to a nation (the Jews) who had never heard such an elaboration on the meanings of how the word had been translated to them previously, by the religious leaders. After the "cross," many things Jesus had said to the Jews AND the apostles became totally clear. And it was only after the cross and the impartation of the Holy Spirit that they could receive most of what Jesus spoke about in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Today, it's only a clinging to a covenant that God Himself has "abolished," that cause "born again" believers to "lack victory" and "feel condemned" most of the time, for perfunctory Christianity.

Just because the Old and New Testament come as one Bible, one book, does not mean that God wants you to cling, to what God calls, not good for use anymore. (Specifically, the Law of Moses)

Am I saying the Old Testament has no value anymore? NO.

The Old Testament was the New Testament "Concealed..."
The New Testament was the Old Testament "Revealed..."

Jesus and the apostles all said, "the law of Moses" has no purpose anymore. Did I keep my old 8 track player after I got an iPod? What for? It's useless now!

Jesus said, "It is finished!" He came to "fulfill the law." You and I could never do that! He had to. Now it's all about looking to Him, trusting Him and "abiding in Him!"

When you take the Word of God literally AND in context, you'll not go wrong!

Kingdomchild Podcast for more Relavant Bible Teaching

 

[sonnyd]

[

Your welcome. This thread has gone off course somewhat so I had to clarify what exactly you were trying to imply!

You see, when one has been in prison for so long, (not saying you) but in general, they can't recieve the truth because it goes against what they have been taught. So when they do hear the truth, they reject it, because it's foreign to what they have been feeding themselves on (strange flesh), and they have been warned not to accept anything else, that theres wolves out there trying to confuse them. But theres some in prison who want to be let out, and the little things that bothered them..that they were taught to accept no longer fits in with all the scriptures, so theres parts of the jigsaw puzzle missing, and the laborers are there just for a gentle guide in the right direction.


When I first came on to this site about 2 years ago, I preached the millenium on earth. Nobody would have a bar of it. It was foreign to them. I gave scripture after scripture backing this marvelous event that God has planned in his wonderful scheme for mankind, but it fell on deaf ears, and I was insulted, abused, mocked, called a false prophet (I'm not a prophet by the way) a wolf in sheeps clothing, a cult member, you name it. Then I thought one day, no way, I'm not hiding this wonderful revelation, because this is from God, and it is the truth, and we dont put our light under the bed, we have to let it shine and let some prisoners out...It's our duty, and the Lord is my driving force. He gave me a sword (his word/knowledge/armour) and I'm ready to use it!


So now most of those sceptics are gone (most), and new searchers have come on, and I see that quite a few are seeing this same event in the scriptures as well. As real...truth...and I rejoice. I only want to share, and if one doesn't accept, then that's their choice...but you have to hear it first, before you can reject and I've been muzzled, as they would come on and distract the subject with stupid pictures of food and stuff, and silly comments to one another that it all got loss in the system. I dont think God will be too pleased with them obstructing the truth....but debates, questions, views, I can handle if it's done in a civil manner, and I want everybody to take this seriously because we are studying Gods word, and God should not be mocked, nor his servants.

So now most understand that there is a thousand years reign on this earth with Christ, and the saints will be with him, but they dont know much more than that. The picture is there, but it's not a panoramic view, just a hazy one, and I intend to make that picture more clearer for my brethren...for the ones hungry that is.


I'll explain in my next post. O.k. Had to give you the run-down first.[/quote]

I will continue to read your post but it is unnecessary to try and convince that there will be a 1000 year reign with Christ on earth, I have always believed that. To go one step farther I also accept Revelation
20:4 to mean that that reign will be for the martyred saints. I have studied in this area for long time.

The skeptics will always be with us, but always treat them with love and understanding that scriptures must be revealed by the spirit.

Be looking forward to the clearer picture.

 

[journey41]

Your welcome. This thread has gone off course somewhat so I had to clarify what exactly you were trying to imply!

You see, when one has been in prison for so long, (not saying you) but in general, they can't recieve the truth because it goes against what they have been taught. So when they do hear the truth, they reject it, because it's foreign to what they have been feeding themselves on (strange flesh), and they have been warned not to accept anything else, that theres wolves out there trying to confuse them. But theres some in prison who want to be let out, and the little things that bothered them..that they were taught to accept no longer fits in with all the scriptures, so theres parts of the jigsaw puzzle missing, and the laborers are there just for a gentle guide in the right direction.


When I first came on to this site about 2 years ago, I preached the millenium on earth. Nobody would have a bar of it. It was foreign to them. I gave scripture after scripture backing this marvelous event that God has planned in his wonderful scheme for mankind, but it fell on deaf ears, and I was insulted, abused, mocked, called a false prophet (I'm not a prophet by the way) a wolf in sheeps clothing, a cult member, you name it. Then I thought one day, no way, I'm not hiding this wonderful revelation, because this is from God, and it is the truth, and we dont put our light under the bed, we have to let it shine and let some prisoners out...It's our duty, and the Lord is my driving force. He gave me a sword (his word/knowledge/armour) and I'm ready to use it!


So now most of those sceptics are gone (most), and new searchers have come on, and I see that quite a few are seeing this same event in the scriptures as well. As real...truth...and I rejoice. I only want to share, and if one doesn't accept, then that's their choice...but you have to hear it first, before you can reject and I've been muzzled, as they would come on and distract the subject with stupid pictures of food and stuff, and silly comments to one another that it all got loss in the system. I dont think God will be too pleased with them obstructing the truth....but debates, questions, views, I can handle if it's done in a civil manner, and I want everybody to take this seriously because we are studying Gods word, and God should not be mocked, nor his servants.

So now most understand that there is a thousand years reign on this earth with Christ, and the saints will be with him, but they dont know much more than that. The picture is there, but it's not a panoramic view, just a hazy one, and I intend to make that picture more clearer for my brethren...for the ones hungry that is.


I'll explain in my next post. O.k. Had to give you the run-down first.

I will continue to read your post but it is unnecessary to try and convince that there will be a 1000 year reign with Christ on earth, I have always believed that. To go one step farther I also accept Revelation
20:4 to mean that that reign will be for the martyred saints. I have studied in this area for long time.

The skeptics will always be with us, but always treat them with love and understanding that scriptures must be revealed by the spirit.

Be looking forward to the clearer picture.[/quote]

Yes Sonny thats great. Will do that new post in the next few days. takes time to find all the scriptures, as there are so many, hundreds in fact that have been misinterpreted & passed off as past, but is near future. and for that reason some will never know the glorious wonderful event that most will witness and be a part of!


I spilt my coffee on my keyboard, and the keys are sticking! Need a new one. Drats.. The enemy is holding me up!. Have to go to work now. Have a nice day/night.

 

[journey41]

This post is now very old, but in case there may be someone else as confused as journey41 about these "seeming" contradictions, I thought it would be good to mention something VERY critical...

The word must be taken in "context." Context of who was the person speaking "to, with and about." Whether it was Jesus, a prophet, an apostle or a king... What was the "context" of the subject and the meaning in context?

The Old Testament was the New Testament "Concealed..."
The New Testament was the Old Testament "Revealed..."

Even in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus was bringing forth revelation to a nation (the Jews) who had never heard such an elaboration on the meanings of how the word had been translated to them previously, by the religious leaders. After the "cross," many things Jesus had said to the Jews AND the apostles became totally clear. And it was only after the cross and the impartation of the Holy Spirit that they could receive most of what Jesus spoke about in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Today, it's only a clinging to a covenant that God Himself has "abolished," that cause "born again" believers to "lack victory" and "feel condemned" most of the time, for perfunctory Christianity.

Just because the Old and New Testament come as one Bible, one book, does not mean that God wants you to cling, to what God calls, not good for use anymore. (Specifically, the Law of Moses)

Am I saying the Old Testament has no value anymore? NO.

The Old Testament was the New Testament "Concealed..."
The New Testament was the Old Testament "Revealed..."

Jesus and the apostles all said, "the law of Moses" has no purpose anymore. Did I keep my old 8 track player after I got an iPod? What for? It's useless now!

Jesus said, "It is finished!" He came to "fulfill the law." You and I could never do that! He had to. Now it's all about looking to Him, trusting Him and "abiding in Him!"

When you take the Word of God literally AND in context, you'll not go wrong!

Kingdomchild Podcast for more Relavant Bible Teaching

[/QUOTE]Hi Kingdom Child, are you new too? Thats great. My purpose is to end all confusion and visit you in prison.

Must not muzzle the ox whilst it treads out the grain!


All the Jews before Jesus were already dead, so hard for them to get revelation in the grave!

Love and blessings to you

 

[journey41]

This post is now very old, but in case there may be someone else as confused as journey41 about these "seeming" contradictions, I thought it would be good to mention something VERY critical...

The word must be taken in "context." Context of who was the person speaking "to, with and about." Whether it was Jesus, a prophet, an apostle or a king... What was the "context" of the subject and the meaning in context?

The Old Testament was the New Testament "Concealed..."
The New Testament was the Old Testament "Revealed..."

Even in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus was bringing forth revelation to a nation (the Jews) who had never heard such an elaboration on the meanings of how the word had been translated to them previously, by the religious leaders. After the "cross," many things Jesus had said to the Jews AND the apostles became totally clear. And it was only after the cross and the impartation of the Holy Spirit that they could receive most of what Jesus spoke about in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Today, it's only a clinging to a covenant that God Himself has "abolished," that cause "born again" believers to "lack victory" and "feel condemned" most of the time, for perfunctory Christianity.

Just because the Old and New Testament come as one Bible, one book, does not mean that God wants you to cling, to what God calls, not good for use anymore. (Specifically, the Law of Moses)

Am I saying the Old Testament has no value anymore? NO.

The Old Testament was the New Testament "Concealed..."
The New Testament was the Old Testament "Revealed..."

Jesus and the apostles all said, "the law of Moses" has no purpose anymore. Did I keep my old 8 track player after I got an iPod? What for? It's useless now!

Jesus said, "It is finished!" He came to "fulfill the law." You and I could never do that! He had to. Now it's all about looking to Him, trusting Him and "abiding in Him!"

When you take the Word of God literally AND in context, you'll not go wrong!

Kingdomchild Podcast for more Relavant Bible Teaching

[/QUOTE]
The New Testament is the fufulment of the old prophesies.
Christ fulfilled those old prophesies and the rest will be fulfilled - as certain events have not happened yet.

And the Law of Moses was written on stone.
But the new Law is the same but being made more honourable and it is written in the heart of man.


Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.


Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
​

​

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying Know the Lord; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
​

Jeremiah 32:37 Behold I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely

This is the 2nd gathering of Israel. Not the first gathering which happened in 1948.

​

Jeremiah 32:39 I will give themone heart, and one way, thatthey may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them.



​

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.


​

 

[Wonderland]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I am guessing my idea will be somewhat original--but scripturally based.

OT believers were never promised heaven. Descendants were so important because they didn't really believe in an eternal life--that idea developed over time. That's why Abraham was thrilled with the promise of descendants like the stars in the sky--he would 'live on' through his descendants in a sense--not yet knowing that he would also live eternally. Likewise, OT writers talked about paradise life on EARTH-- such as "the meek will inherit the earth" and other such verses.

Therefore, since Revelation tells us there will be a new heaven and a new earth, it is reasonable to assume that OT believers will inherit the earth, and NT believers will live in heaven.

But, there is something to be said about "No one can come to the father except by me" and Jesus being the "firstborn from among the dead." It is likely that OT beleivers were in a sort of 'rest' state (sheol) until Jesus was resurrected. Only AFTER Jesus proved himself faithful and atoned for sin could people be redeemed from death.

This is all scriptural, like I said, but I am aware there are a lot of gaps to this--questions I don't quite have answers for. But for now this is my belief until someone shows me something better.

 

[CrimsonFlames]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I am guessing my idea will be somewhat original--but scripturally based.

OT believers were never promised heaven. Descendants were so important because they didn't really believe in an eternal life--that idea developed over time. That's why Abraham was thrilled with the promise of descendants like the stars in the sky--he would 'live on' through his descendants in a sense--not yet knowing that he would also live eternally. Likewise, OT writers talked about paradise life on EARTH-- such as "the meek will inherit the earth" and other such verses.

Therefore, since Revelation tells us there will be a new heaven and a new earth, it is reasonable to assume that OT believers will inherit the earth, and NT believers will live in heaven.

But, there is something to be said about "No one can come to the father except by me" and Jesus being the "firstborn from among the dead." It is likely that OT beleivers were in a sort of 'rest' state (sheol) until Jesus was resurrected. Only AFTER Jesus proved himself faithful and atoned for sin could people be redeemed from death.

This is all scriptural, like I said, but I am aware there are a lot of gaps to this--questions I don't quite have answers for. But for now this is my belief until someone shows me something better.

Absolute Bollocks!!

This view is about as scriptural as my left shoe

Matthew 8:11 “But I tell YOU that many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens.”

 

[AnandaHya]

Absolute Bollocks!!

This view is about as scriptural as my left shoe

Matthew 8:11 “But I tell YOU that many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens.”

this thread is swarming with snakes.

they don't care about scripture or God's truth or His salvation.

No its about making sparks and seeing how many moths come to the flames.

Psalm 18

1 I will love You, O LORD, my strength.
2 The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
My God, my strength, in whom I will trust;
My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised;
So shall I be saved from my enemies.

the title of the thread by itself should give you a clue "you so called learned Christians"

So is the difference between the OP and those she address is her lack of wisdom or her lack of Christianity?

 

[journey41]

I didn't read the whole thread, but I am guessing my idea will be somewhat original--but scripturally based.




This is all scriptural, like I said, but I am aware there are a lot of gaps to this--questions I don't quite have answers for. But for now this is my belief until someone shows me something better.

Hi Wonderland. Thanks for taking the time to share your views. I hope that last poster hasn't scared you off. Many get intimidated, and therefore don't speak up or ask questions. Just ignore, and I'll do the best I can answer.

Therefore, since Revelation tells us there will be a new heaven and a new earth, it is reasonable to assume that OT believers will inherit the earth, and NT believers will live in heaven.

Yes, there will be a new heaven and a new earth, but before that, Christ will establish his kingdom with his saints here on earth. The saints will inherit everything that belongs to God, so they will have free reign, and will be used by God, just like the angels are. The angels are spirit, and we can't see them, but they are traveling between heaven and earth, constantly going about the Lords business, what ever he instructs them to do....invisible to humans.


So heres a few verses to show you that Christ's kingdom will be on earth.

Isaiah 11:1-5 prophesises about Christ. Verse 4 is Christ's 2nd coming.
then what happens next?

PROPHESY NOT YET FULFILLED - TO COME
Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lions and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

Isaiah 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice's den.

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

Can you see the picture a tiny bit clearer now? There are animals, and children playing together, living in harmony. Everything is changed, peaceful......Children love and adore bears and leopards etc, but if they ever touched one, it would rip their hands off. Not in this kingdom. Nothing will hurt nor destroy. This is not a vision of the spiritual, but a vision of what's to come. Flesh is there, And it's protected.


Christ is leading them
Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a roote of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Christ's rest.... is in the 1000 years, this rest is glorious....and the Gentiles are seeking. They did that before, we know that, but they will seek again...after Christ's 2nd coming.


So Who exactly are these ones living in this kingdom?

Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

In other words, the remnant of the Israelites. They were scattered, then gathered together in 1948 (first gathering) and they will be rounded up again in the second gathering, at Christ's second coming.

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

(Outcasts - Isaiah 16:4, 27:13, 56:8)


Isaiah 11:13 The envy of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah (Israel) shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.


Ephraim was a mixed people in Jesus's time. They were Jews mixed with Syrians and from Samaria, called samaritans.....they were looked down apon by the Jews cause they were mixed. To go into a little history of Ephraim we can get a glimpse of what God means when he later speaks of Ephraim.

Jacob (God called him Israel) was sick, and Joseph his son, presented his two sons before him.

Mannesah was the older brother
Ephraim was the younger.

Genesis 11:3 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Caanan, and blessed me,

Genesis 11:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people, and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.
(They were in Egypt at the time, later you will find out the boundaries of the new kingdom on earth)

Genesis 11:5 And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt, before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine: as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.

(so Jacob is classing his two grandsons as his own - adopting them into his family)

11:6 And thy issue, which thou begetest after them, shall be thine, and shall be called after the name of their brethren (12 tribes?) in their inheritance.

You can read on and see that Israel had his hand crossed over on the two grandsons, and blessed the younger brother (Ephraim) over the older (Mannessah)

And Joseph tried to correct his father, to say bless Manessah the older, and his father refused...

Genesis 11:19 And his father refused, and said I know it, my son, I know it: he also (Manasseh) he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.(gentiles)


Genesis 11:20 And he blessed them that day saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying God make thee as Ephraim before Manessah.

Genesis 11:21 And Israel said to Joseph, behold, I die; but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.


So, Ephraim the younger (gentiles) shall lead the Manessah the older (Israel)

Matthew 19:30 But many (not all) that are first shall be last; and the last shallbe first.
(The gentiles will be resurrected first)


Romans 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

(The Israelites are not serving the gentiles now, so this is future....In the kingdom they will be taught by the saints)



Dueteronomy 33:17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.


Looks like there will be much more saints than Israelites....This shows that it is not all of Israel...


Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.



there is a difference here. Israel flesh & Ephraim are the resurrected saints (gentiles)

I will stop here. As too much in one go! Let you get your head around it for the time being!
God bless.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

gentiles are not descended from ephraim...

 

[CrimsonFlames]

gentiles are not descended from ephraim...

So, Ephraim the younger (gentiles) shall lead the Manessah the older (Israel)

Nor is Manessah Israel but a tribe of Israel.., but hey., you know., if they can bend it and manipulate it to fit their ideology

 

[Graybeard]

to the OP's original question......Didn't Jesus preach to the righteous after He was crucified and before He rose....to set the captives free??

 

[Laodicea]

Nor is Manessah Israel.., but hey., you know., if they can bend it and manipulate it to fit their ideology

Genesis the book of beginnings tells us where all the nations came from

 

[cronjecj]

Genesis the book of beginnings tells us where all the nations came from

yea i remember that time when God confused the people with different languages, because God didn't want them to build the tower to reach the heavens for some other reason.

 

[Laodicea]

yea i remember that time when God confused the people with different languages, because God didn't want them to build the tower to reach the heavens for some other reason.

Yes also if people read the genealogies and look they can find out who began what country, for example one of sons of Ham was Mizraim he was the founder of Egypt

 

[journey41]

gentiles are not descended from ephraim...

[/QUOTE]Genesis 11:19 And his father refused, and said I know it, my son, I know it: he also (Manasseh) he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.(gentiles)

What happened to Ephraim is symbolic of what was to come.

His seed shall become a multitude of nations.

Tell me what this means then please?

 

[journey41]

Nor is Manessah Israel but a tribe of Israel.., but hey., you know., if they can bend it and manipulate it to fit their ideology

[/QUOTE]You didn't know what this verse meant when you quoted it to me last week. Now I am showing you.

Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.




Who gets resurrected with Christ first? Which group gets resurrected first into spirit, the Israelites, or the gentiles?

 

[journey41]

to the OP's original question......Didn't Jesus preach to the righteous after He was crucified and before He rose....to set the captives free??

[/QUOTE]And when he returned to his Father after his 40 days here on this earth, his WORD, carries on and sets the captives free, even until this day.

I wouldn't call all the captives righteous. Will be made righteous if they feed on Christ's flesh.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

[/QUOTE]Genesis 11:19 And his father refused, and said I know it, my son, I know it: he also (Manasseh) he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.(gentiles)

What happened to Ephraim is symbolic of what was to come.

His seed shall become a multitude of nations.

Tell me what this means then please?

ephraim actually did become several nations...all jewish nations...

first they were the most influential tribe in the nation of israel

when the ten tribes were deported...ephraim became the ancestor of the telugu jews in india... many persian jews also claim an ephraimite origin...there is also an igbo population in africa that claims descent from ephraim

the samaritans also claim ephraimite ancestry and they are probably a mixture of an ephraimite remnant and the foreign peoples the assyrians brought to resettle the land after most of israel was deported...

none of these should be considered gentile nations...