I would like some perspectives on Revelation.
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Take a moment and read Zechariah 4. Zechariah describes what he sees-- He sees two olive trees.
We don't have to speculate or wonder what it is that Zechariah sees, because he tells us specifically. He sees two olive trees. He's taking it all in and it's amazing-- while at the same time it's hard to put it all into words because there is so much going on. It's hard to understand-- so he asks..... what are these?
If all he was looking at was two olive trees, would he have to ask? But he does ask, because that's only a small part of all he is looking at. Before even mentioning the olive trees, he describes seeing a golden lampstand, with seven lamps, and a bowl that acts as an oil reservoir that has seven pipes feeding these seven lamps. And he sees that the reservoir is in turn fed by two pipes that each connect to an olive tree, one on each side of the lampstand oil reservoir--- and he sees all of this and asks-- What is this?
In short-- it's an apparatus of a kind. The angel explains.... and he likens it to the house of the Lord where the spirit of God dwells. And those lamps? The angel says that those seven are the eyes of Lord that travel the earth, observing.
But still puzzled-- Zechariah comes back to the trees and the pipes that connect them to the lampstand....
What are these two pipes that flow from the two trees and pour oil to the lampstand?
These are the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Two. Not four.
If I describe a car and say it has six windows, and one steering wheel and four tires---- and since I've never seen one before, I ask... what is this steering wheel? And the angel tells me that it controls the car, which direction it might turn.... Then I ask-- but what about those four wheels? The angel says-- they allow the car to roll across the land.
But then, I see a gas station.... with gas pumps on either side of the car, and hose that go from the pump to fill the gas tank of the car.... and I ask the angel--- What is this?
It's still only one car. One gas station. Even if there are two pumps one on either side.... Do you see?
We don't have to speculate or wonder what it is that Zechariah sees, because he tells us specifically. He sees two olive trees. He's taking it all in and it's amazing-- while at the same time it's hard to put it all into words because there is so much going on. It's hard to understand-- so he asks..... what are these?
If all he was looking at was two olive trees, would he have to ask? But he does ask, because that's only a small part of all he is looking at. Before even mentioning the olive trees, he describes seeing a golden lampstand, with seven lamps, and a bowl that acts as an oil reservoir that has seven pipes feeding these seven lamps. And he sees that the reservoir is in turn fed by two pipes that each connect to an olive tree, one on each side of the lampstand oil reservoir--- and he sees all of this and asks-- What is this?
In short-- it's an apparatus of a kind. The angel explains.... and he likens it to the house of the Lord where the spirit of God dwells. And those lamps? The angel says that those seven are the eyes of Lord that travel the earth, observing.
But still puzzled-- Zechariah comes back to the trees and the pipes that connect them to the lampstand....
What are these two pipes that flow from the two trees and pour oil to the lampstand?
These are the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Two. Not four.
If I describe a car and say it has six windows, and one steering wheel and four tires---- and since I've never seen one before, I ask... what is this steering wheel? And the angel tells me that it controls the car, which direction it might turn.... Then I ask-- but what about those four wheels? The angel says-- they allow the car to roll across the land.
But then, I see a gas station.... with gas pumps on either side of the car, and hose that go from the pump to fill the gas tank of the car.... and I ask the angel--- What is this?
It's still only one car. One gas station. Even if there are two pumps one on either side.... Do you see?
Brother-- it's two ways of describing or referencing one thing.
It's describing how the lampstand is powered. The answer? Oil. Oil produced by these two trees.
And no one asks how an olive tree produces oil. It's kind of a God thing. But the oil is the yield from the fruit of the olive trees, and that oil pours from and through the trees and feeds the eyes of the Lord on the earth. There is so much more here to focus on, beyond these two trees that simply do what is natural for them to do... They just do naturally what they were made for.
It's describing how the lampstand is powered. The answer? Oil. Oil produced by these two trees.
And no one asks how an olive tree produces oil. It's kind of a God thing. But the oil is the yield from the fruit of the olive trees, and that oil pours from and through the trees and feeds the eyes of the Lord on the earth. There is so much more here to focus on, beyond these two trees that simply do what is natural for them to do... They just do naturally what they were made for.
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It's imagery. But it's not somehow four witnesses, if that is what you are implying. It's two connected images detailing one concept, using words that invoke associations. Remember this is in spirit, and John is seeing what Zechariah also saw-- a golden lampstand with seven bowls that hold the oil from these two olive trees that supply them. There are not two candlesticks, rather two "pipes" that extend from these two olive trees which supply the olive oil from branches on the left and right side of the lampstand.
Whatever helps you envision it-- The text is describing the source of the oil (the anointing) that pours through these two witnesses, and though they are depicted as trees-- these trees are men.
Whatever helps you envision it-- The text is describing the source of the oil (the anointing) that pours through these two witnesses, and though they are depicted as trees-- these trees are men.
“and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: and two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.”
Zechariah 4:2-3 KJV
“And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
Zechariah 4:12, 14 KJV
“And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah: who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
Luke 9:29-31
“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:
and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”
Revelation 11:3-4, 6 KJV
“power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: “
“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, ( 3 and a half years ) clothed in sackcloth.”
Revelation 11:3 KJV
“And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word.”
1 Kings 17:1 KJV
“Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.”
James 5:17 KJV
“power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues”
of course Moses turned water to blood and set off plagues upon Egypt …..
moses gave the law which witnesses of Christ and Elijah represents the prophets who also witness of Christ
“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.”
Acts 28:23 KJV
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Romans 3:21 KJV
“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:”
Acts 26:22 KJV
“Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
Acts 3:24 KJV
“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
Acts 10:43
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That's a common idea that many have speculated upon and that many might agree with you upon, in saying that Moses and Elijah are good candidates for the two witnesses. I'll offer a slightly different idea.
Without meaning to complicate things-- rather I'd like to simplify our understanding of this book of dreams and as requested by the OP @JesusIsSovereign -- offer some perspectives on Revelation. In doing so, I'd like to take the focus off of earthly things for the moment, since what Ezekiel and Zechariah and John alike all see, is seen in spirit-- not on earth at all. They each describe spiritual, heavenly things. Having said that-- the principle in play is always 'on earth as it is in heaven' so there is always an earthly physical facsimile of each 'thing' seen in heaven. But let's focus first on what these things in heaven are seen as.
Sometimes when wondering or considering or even speculating on what things are, it's helpful certainly to focus on what we are told, and what is definitively explained to us, but it's also worth paying attention to what is not said. When asked what the trees are-- the angel could have, but didn't-- say, that these are Moses and Elijah. Again-- the trees are heavenly. Not earthly.
The witnesses are earthly. The two heavenly trees pour forth oil through pipes to the lampstand. And the pouring of this heavenly "power source" is what we call being anointed (with oil) which is what happens to these witnesses. It's what happened to Moses and Elijah and many others as well--- who at various times and in various ways were anointed with power from above, enabling them to serve God and minister to his children on earth.
So who then are the witnesses to be? Could be anyone. Take 'ordinary Joe' and supply him with this oil and he in turn becomes a channel and a vessel though which the seven eyes of the Lord on earth are fed.
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it’s always good to hear different perspectives and takes on things so we don’t put our own selves in a box that we can’t see is there.
“And he made the candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work made he the candlestick; his shaft, and his branch, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, were of the same: and six branches going out of the sides thereof; ( one in the middle the actual candlestick and three on each side ) three branches of the candlestick out of the one side thereof, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side thereof:”
Exodus 37:17-18 KJV
“And he made his seven lamps, and his snuffers, and his snuffdishes, of pure gold.”
Exodus 37:23 KJV
“and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:”
Zechariah 4:2
“For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”
Zechariah 3:9 KJV
. For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.”
Zechariah 4:8-10 KJV
“And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.”
Revelation 4:5 KJV
“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
Revelation 5:6
“And he made the candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work made he the candlestick; his shaft, and his branch, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, were of the same: and six branches going out of the sides thereof; ( one in the middle the actual candlestick and three on each side ) three branches of the candlestick out of the one side thereof, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side thereof:”
Exodus 37:17-18 KJV
“And he made his seven lamps, and his snuffers, and his snuffdishes, of pure gold.”
Exodus 37:23 KJV
“and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:”
Zechariah 4:2
“For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”
Zechariah 3:9 KJV
. For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.”
Zechariah 4:8-10 KJV
“And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.”
Revelation 4:5 KJV
“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
Revelation 5:6
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A witness also tells the truth (teach, prophesy) to others. That's what the two witnesses are doing:
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
This is BEFORE any court/judging so they aren't those kinds of witnesses because the evil one kills them after they give their testimony. That's not what God's court is like.
