If Man Has No Role In His Own Salvation......
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Amen!
False! Works do not produce a living faith. A living faith produces works. You have it backwards. James did not say faith remains dead until there are works. How can a dead faith produce works? How can a dead tree produce fruit? IT MUST BE ALIVE FIRST! In James 2:14, James said what good is it if someone SAYS/CLAIMS he has faith but has no works. James did not say that this hypothetical person actually has faith but has not yet produced any works. He said SAYS/CLAIMS he has faith but he has no works to back up his claim. That is the point that James is making. One does not give a brother or sister the things which are needed for the body (James 2:15-16) instantly upon conversion. It takes time. James is not implying that our faith remains dead until we do, but if we claim to have faith but there is no evidence ever produced by works that our faith is genuine, then we have an empty profession of faith, a dead faith, not genuine faith.
Faith that trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation is not dead, but very much alive in Christ (Ephesians 2:5-8). You are trying to get one saved by a dead faith and bad works/fruit produced by a bad tree. A good tree produces good fruit BECAUSE it's a good tree, not to become a good tree. We must be saved by grace through faith, not works/created in Christ Jesus FIRST (Ephesians 2:8-10) THEN UNTO/FOR good works. You have it backwards/created in good works unto Christ Jesus.
My point exactly!!! So tell me how a DEAD faith produces good works in order to become a LIVING FAITH? It cannot do anything because it is DEAD! It must be alive in Christ FIRST. You just disproved your theory about faith remaining dead until it produces good works. Dead faith cannot do anything!
You post "If there are no works then there was never any genuine faith."
One can never SHOW/PROVE that he has genuine faith if he NEVER has any works. I just made works necessary to SHOW that one has a genuine faith. Works show that our faith is genuine but faith is alive in Christ and genuine the moment that we believe in Him/believe the gospel/trust exclusively in Christ for salvation.
Works are necessary to SHOW that we have a genuine faith, not establish a genuine faith. How can you show your faith by your works if faith is not yet established in Christ and is dead? The error you make is that you make works the root of salvation along with faith and not the fruit.
When James says "faith only" he is talking about an empty profession of faith/claims to have faith. This is not genuine faith but a dead faith. James is not teaching we are saved by works, but if our faith is genuine, then it will be evidenced by works.
No and it's not because his works are the means of his salvation but because works give evidence that his faith was genuine. Never do any works = dead faith. Saved through faith but never do any works is an oxymoron. If faith is genuine, then there will be evidence/works to back it up. Why is that so hard for you to understand and why are you so determined to make works the actually means of your salvation? Do you want credit? Is Christ's finished work of redemption not good enough for you so you turn to supplements?
Works are the fruit of genuine faith and Joe's salvation. If Joe says he has faith but he has no works to validate his claim, then his claim is bogus. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is evidenced/confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24). It's that simple. Why do you trust in works and not Christ alone to save you?
Amen! What "other requirements" to you see mentioned along with BELIEVETH in Romans 1:16? What about in Romans 4:5 or Romans 10:4? This is how you "add" works to the gospel.
Does the word "alone" need to be spelled out in order for you to figure out that the "only" word mentioned in connection with "power of God unto salvation for everyone that" is BELIEVETH? Did Paul say BELIEVES "plus something else?" NO. This is where you "add" your works.
He simply said BELIEVETH not believeth and works.
Paul did not make confession a separate additional requirement after believe and repent (in that reversed order) a necessary part of salvation, as in your 4 step flawed plan of salvation. In Romans 10:8, we read - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is the word of faith which we preach: 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. These are not two separate steps to salvation (believe today, confess next week, finally saved next week) but are chronologically together. Confess/believe; believe confess. So Paul does not contradict what he said in Romans 1:16. Notice confession precedes baptism in your 4 step flawed plan of salvation and believe unto righteousness/confession made unto salvation is BEFORE water baptism. So your 4 step flawed plan of salvation contradicts what Paul said in Romans 1:16 and Romans 10:9-10).
False! Works do not produce a living faith. A living faith produces works. You have it backwards. James did not say faith remains dead until there are works. How can a dead faith produce works? How can a dead tree produce fruit? IT MUST BE ALIVE FIRST! In James 2:14, James said what good is it if someone SAYS/CLAIMS he has faith but has no works. James did not say that this hypothetical person actually has faith but has not yet produced any works. He said SAYS/CLAIMS he has faith but he has no works to back up his claim. That is the point that James is making. One does not give a brother or sister the things which are needed for the body (James 2:15-16) instantly upon conversion. It takes time. James is not implying that our faith remains dead until we do, but if we claim to have faith but there is no evidence ever produced by works that our faith is genuine, then we have an empty profession of faith, a dead faith, not genuine faith.
Faith that trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation is not dead, but very much alive in Christ (Ephesians 2:5-8). You are trying to get one saved by a dead faith and bad works/fruit produced by a bad tree. A good tree produces good fruit BECAUSE it's a good tree, not to become a good tree. We must be saved by grace through faith, not works/created in Christ Jesus FIRST (Ephesians 2:8-10) THEN UNTO/FOR good works. You have it backwards/created in good works unto Christ Jesus.
My point exactly!!! So tell me how a DEAD faith produces good works in order to become a LIVING FAITH? It cannot do anything because it is DEAD! It must be alive in Christ FIRST. You just disproved your theory about faith remaining dead until it produces good works. Dead faith cannot do anything!
You post "If there are no works then there was never any genuine faith."
One can never SHOW/PROVE that he has genuine faith if he NEVER has any works. I just made works necessary to SHOW that one has a genuine faith. Works show that our faith is genuine but faith is alive in Christ and genuine the moment that we believe in Him/believe the gospel/trust exclusively in Christ for salvation.
Works are necessary to SHOW that we have a genuine faith, not establish a genuine faith. How can you show your faith by your works if faith is not yet established in Christ and is dead? The error you make is that you make works the root of salvation along with faith and not the fruit.
When James says "faith only" he is talking about an empty profession of faith/claims to have faith. This is not genuine faith but a dead faith. James is not teaching we are saved by works, but if our faith is genuine, then it will be evidenced by works.
No and it's not because his works are the means of his salvation but because works give evidence that his faith was genuine. Never do any works = dead faith. Saved through faith but never do any works is an oxymoron. If faith is genuine, then there will be evidence/works to back it up. Why is that so hard for you to understand and why are you so determined to make works the actually means of your salvation? Do you want credit? Is Christ's finished work of redemption not good enough for you so you turn to supplements?
Works are the fruit of genuine faith and Joe's salvation. If Joe says he has faith but he has no works to validate his claim, then his claim is bogus. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is evidenced/confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24). It's that simple. Why do you trust in works and not Christ alone to save you?
Amen! What "other requirements" to you see mentioned along with BELIEVETH in Romans 1:16? What about in Romans 4:5 or Romans 10:4? This is how you "add" works to the gospel.
Does the word "alone" need to be spelled out in order for you to figure out that the "only" word mentioned in connection with "power of God unto salvation for everyone that" is BELIEVETH? Did Paul say BELIEVES "plus something else?" NO. This is where you "add" your works.
He simply said BELIEVETH not believeth and works.
Paul did not make confession a separate additional requirement after believe and repent (in that reversed order) a necessary part of salvation, as in your 4 step flawed plan of salvation. In Romans 10:8, we read - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is the word of faith which we preach: 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. These are not two separate steps to salvation (believe today, confess next week, finally saved next week) but are chronologically together. Confess/believe; believe confess. So Paul does not contradict what he said in Romans 1:16. Notice confession precedes baptism in your 4 step flawed plan of salvation and believe unto righteousness/confession made unto salvation is BEFORE water baptism. So your 4 step flawed plan of salvation contradicts what Paul said in Romans 1:16 and Romans 10:9-10).
Paul did not make baptism a necessary part of salvation in Romans 6:3-5. You are confusing the picture with the reality. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16; 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25). Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him). If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that salvation/justification is through FAITH, not baptism. *Hermeneutics.
Repentance is a change of mind which precedes believing the gospel/faith in Christ for salvation. Repent does not need to be spelled out in Romans 1:16 because we must first repent before we can believe the gospel and those who believe the gospel have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel. It's repent and believe the gospel (Mark 1:15) not believe the gospel then afterwards repent. You reverse the order of repentance and faith in salvation. Your belief is no different than the belief of demons and the only difference is you "add" your works. You cannot grasp a DEEPER faith which TRUSTS EXCLUSIVELY IN CHRIST FOR SALVATION. This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works".
Actually you have it backwards. Obeying the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16) comes before justification. All other acts of obedience/good works FOLLOW salvation/justification (Ephesians 2:8-10).
One is either righteous and the effect is doing righteousness or unrighteous and the effect is doing unrighteousness - no in-between. One must first become righteous through faith before he can do righteousness. A good tree bears good fruit but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A bad tree does not bear good fruit. The tree must be good FIRST.
If one does NOT obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel then one is still lost and is doing unrighteousness. After one obeys the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel, then one is saved (cause) and the (effect) is doing/practicing righteousness. You are trying to get an unrighteous person who has not yet been saved through faith saved by works, which is not possible.
The belief of demons (which falls short of trusting exclusively in Christ for salvation is not saving belief) and following it up with moral reformation, lip service confession and water baptism does not make it saving belief either. One must first become righteous through repenting and believing the gospel/believes unto righteousness/confession made unto salvation/chronologically together then one can be reckoned righteous. Water baptism and doing/practicing righteousness FOLLOWS repentance unto life/believes in Him/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18). Abraham was reckoned righteous when he believed the Lord in Genesis 15:6 many years before he obeyed God in Genesis 22.
You just described children of the devil. 1 John 3:10 - By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious/manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God. Never did. Children of God practice righteousness and not sin BECAUSE they are children of God, not to become children of God. You still have it backwards.
One must be of God before he can practice righteousness. Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me (cause); doing/practicing righteousness (effect). Will you ever accept the truth?
One is saved when he obeys the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16). That is what make's one of God/saved, as I showed you in Romans 1:16; Acts 26:18 and elsewhere. Without faith, it's impossible to please God so your attempt at doing/practicing righteousness without faith is futile. You are trying to get one saved by works.
Repentance is a change of mind which precedes believing the gospel/faith in Christ for salvation. Repent does not need to be spelled out in Romans 1:16 because we must first repent before we can believe the gospel and those who believe the gospel have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel. It's repent and believe the gospel (Mark 1:15) not believe the gospel then afterwards repent. You reverse the order of repentance and faith in salvation. Your belief is no different than the belief of demons and the only difference is you "add" your works. You cannot grasp a DEEPER faith which TRUSTS EXCLUSIVELY IN CHRIST FOR SALVATION. This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works".
Actually you have it backwards. Obeying the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16) comes before justification. All other acts of obedience/good works FOLLOW salvation/justification (Ephesians 2:8-10).
One is either righteous and the effect is doing righteousness or unrighteous and the effect is doing unrighteousness - no in-between. One must first become righteous through faith before he can do righteousness. A good tree bears good fruit but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A bad tree does not bear good fruit. The tree must be good FIRST.
If one does NOT obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel then one is still lost and is doing unrighteousness. After one obeys the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel, then one is saved (cause) and the (effect) is doing/practicing righteousness. You are trying to get an unrighteous person who has not yet been saved through faith saved by works, which is not possible.
The belief of demons (which falls short of trusting exclusively in Christ for salvation is not saving belief) and following it up with moral reformation, lip service confession and water baptism does not make it saving belief either. One must first become righteous through repenting and believing the gospel/believes unto righteousness/confession made unto salvation/chronologically together then one can be reckoned righteous. Water baptism and doing/practicing righteousness FOLLOWS repentance unto life/believes in Him/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18). Abraham was reckoned righteous when he believed the Lord in Genesis 15:6 many years before he obeyed God in Genesis 22.
You just described children of the devil. 1 John 3:10 - By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious/manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God. Never did. Children of God practice righteousness and not sin BECAUSE they are children of God, not to become children of God. You still have it backwards.
One must be of God before he can practice righteousness. Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me (cause); doing/practicing righteousness (effect). Will you ever accept the truth?
One is saved when he obeys the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16). That is what make's one of God/saved, as I showed you in Romans 1:16; Acts 26:18 and elsewhere. Without faith, it's impossible to please God so your attempt at doing/practicing righteousness without faith is futile. You are trying to get one saved by works.
Can God require an ACT OF FAITH before He moves? Were the sins of Israel covered BEFORE or AFTER they sprinkled the mercy seat with blood? Were people healed BEFORE or AFTER they stepped out in FAITH? If one does not understand that water baptism was designed to be an act of faith,you will not understand the picture language.
Do not listen to the "works" religions of men .... there are many of them that can lead you into various attached deceptions
This ambition is the behavior of those who seek to capture people into their memberships for self gain
Stay away from them so as not to be carried off by their false teaching
This ambition is the behavior of those who seek to capture people into their memberships for self gain
Stay away from them so as not to be carried off by their false teaching
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Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Faith in Christ is established FIRST made alive together with Christ by grace through faith/created in Christ Jesus then UNTO good works (Ephesians 2:5-10). It's established the moment that we believe the gospel by trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16). Works SHOW our faith but they do not establish it. Works cannot establish faith that is already established in Christ. I do not agree with SeaBass or you. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation, yet SeaBass erroneously says that faith AND works are BOTH the root of salvation. A bad tree cannot bear/produce good fruit, but according to the logic of SeaBass, a bad tree bears/produces good fruit in order to become a good tree, which is contrary to scripture and nature.
if it is through faith ...there must be works bro ...faith without works is dead....you want to establish faith without works....go look at the meaning of establish...The scripture does not teach...It's established the moment that we believe the gospel by trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation
Faith comes by hearing....one is not established when they hear....it is only when you do what is required....
Acts 16:29-34King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
Faith comes by hearing....one is not established when they hear....it is only when you do what is required....
Acts 16:29-34King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
E
Sorry, I do not get my theology from strongs, which is a basic tool which may help us understand things. but is very limited and generic
Yes, hard heart that hard heart has to be changed. That change is called repent (the actual greek word means to do a 180 degree turn and walk the opposite way) This must happen to our mind, Our mind carries us one way, away from God. it can not understand God, and can not do any good. It must do a 180 degree turn for it to accept God, recieve God and have faith in God.
One can not even have faith of a mustard seed in God UNLESS they repent.
Again, repent and believe and you will be saved, there is a reason repent ALWAYS comes first.
K
This is exactly what I said. The thief was not an example of a believer under the new covenant that has time to live their life. It falls under the category of those who come to Jesus in the last hour or minutes of their life. They are saved in my understanding of what scripture says when the Lord says I will have mercy on who I will have mercy, and that He knows the heart.
Some on here would try to say that can't be possible because it would speak of two gospels. This still falls under the one gospel we are to obey, and that is to put your faith and obedience in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
The thief even though was not under the new covenant yet for it was not initiated tell Jesus died, the thief did recognize Jesus for who He was and how deserving of death he was for his sins. But then asked for forgiveness, by stating to the Lord to please remember Him when He goes to His kingdom.
But on the other hand you leave out things like this Were the sins of Israel covered before or after the blood was applied to the mercy seat?
You also leave out one huge factor with the thief on the cross,the thief was in the position of being UNABLE to be baptized. One that is in a position of being UNABLE is not in the same position as one who is UNWILLING to do so.
Can not God as a HOLY,RIGHTEOUS and JUST God MITIGATE certain factors if one is in a position of being UNABLE to do certain things?
You also leave out one huge factor with the thief on the cross,the thief was in the position of being UNABLE to be baptized. One that is in a position of being UNABLE is not in the same position as one who is UNWILLING to do so.
Can not God as a HOLY,RIGHTEOUS and JUST God MITIGATE certain factors if one is in a position of being UNABLE to do certain things?
I agree and will say that workers for salvation and those who will argue water as part of salvation will explain away the thief by saying two things...
1. He is not an example of N.T. salvation
2. You cannot prove that he was not immersed
Both statements ignorantly ignore and reject a few things.....
1. The law and the prophets were until John<---John was dead and gone and Jesus had called out his disciples and the church is spoken of in the present tense no less than two times
2. The thief was being put to death for thievery and murder<-no murderer hath eternal life dwelling in him
3. The thief acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus and Jesus recognizes the thief and acknowledges his faith toward Jesus
Just to name three........!
By grace through faith in Christ. Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in trespasses, (before faith, but after) made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. SAVED, FAITH IS ESTABLISHED. Verse 10 - Now with this established faith, we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works.
After given the opportunity to show our faith. Giving a brother or sister the things needed for the body (James 2:15-16) is not instantly accomplished upon conversion. That does not mean that genuine faith in Christ is dead until we do, but after given the opportunity to show our faith in one such example, yet we produce no good works, we demonstrate that our faith is dead and not alive in Christ.
By grace through faith in Christ. It's established that we have faith in Christ the moment that we trust exclusively in Him for salvation. Saved through faith does not equal dead faith and saved through faith is NOT saved through faith AND works (Ephesians 2:8,9). You say that one receives the remission of sins upon baptism, even though it's actually upon believing in Him (Acts 10:43). Do you believe that faith is alive after baptism but prior to giving a brother or sister the things which are needed for the body? (James 2:15-16)
You need genuine faith in the first place to show by your works that it is genuine. Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine faith, but not the essence of genuine faith and not the means of our salvation.
Show does not mean establish. We show our already established faith by our works. How can you show a dead faith by your works? It must be alive first. I absolutely don't agree with SeaBass or you. It was established that Abraham believed God and it (faith) was accounted to him for righteousness many years before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. Abraham did not need to offer up Isaac in order to establish what was already established in Genesis 15:6 but by doing so, he proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. Abraham showed us his already established faith in Genesis 15:6 by his works many years later in Genesis 22. Also read Romans 4:2-3.
Do you ever just stop for a moment and actually listen to yourself?
Context. Says/claims he has faith but he has no works (has not produced any works to back up his claim). Can that faith save him? The answer is no because this is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith. A living faith is alive in Christ and will produce good works confirming that it is genuine. A good tree bears good fruit.
The word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance" in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons also believe "mental assent" that there is one God but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. I believe "mental assent" that George Washington existed and I also believe in the historical facts about George Washington, but I am not trusting in Him to save my soul. See the difference? Saving belief/faith is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief/faith trusts exclusively in Christ's finished work of redemption as the allsufficient means of our salvation AND NOT IN WORKS.
I already understand. Quit trying to explain away the simple truth. Genesis 15:6 - Abraham believed the Lord, and he counted it (faith, not works) to him as righteousness *many years BEFORE he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22 in which he was said to be justified by works (James 2:21), which here means "shown to be righteous" and not accounted as righteousness. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, (accounted as righteous) he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness." Not hard to understand, just hard for you to ACCEPT.
After given the opportunity to show our faith. Giving a brother or sister the things needed for the body (James 2:15-16) is not instantly accomplished upon conversion. That does not mean that genuine faith in Christ is dead until we do, but after given the opportunity to show our faith in one such example, yet we produce no good works, we demonstrate that our faith is dead and not alive in Christ.
By grace through faith in Christ. It's established that we have faith in Christ the moment that we trust exclusively in Him for salvation. Saved through faith does not equal dead faith and saved through faith is NOT saved through faith AND works (Ephesians 2:8,9). You say that one receives the remission of sins upon baptism, even though it's actually upon believing in Him (Acts 10:43). Do you believe that faith is alive after baptism but prior to giving a brother or sister the things which are needed for the body? (James 2:15-16)
You need genuine faith in the first place to show by your works that it is genuine. Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine faith, but not the essence of genuine faith and not the means of our salvation.
Show does not mean establish. We show our already established faith by our works. How can you show a dead faith by your works? It must be alive first. I absolutely don't agree with SeaBass or you. It was established that Abraham believed God and it (faith) was accounted to him for righteousness many years before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. Abraham did not need to offer up Isaac in order to establish what was already established in Genesis 15:6 but by doing so, he proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. Abraham showed us his already established faith in Genesis 15:6 by his works many years later in Genesis 22. Also read Romans 4:2-3.
Do you ever just stop for a moment and actually listen to yourself?
Context. Says/claims he has faith but he has no works (has not produced any works to back up his claim). Can that faith save him? The answer is no because this is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith. A living faith is alive in Christ and will produce good works confirming that it is genuine. A good tree bears good fruit.
The word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance" in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons also believe "mental assent" that there is one God but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. I believe "mental assent" that George Washington existed and I also believe in the historical facts about George Washington, but I am not trusting in Him to save my soul. See the difference? Saving belief/faith is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief/faith trusts exclusively in Christ's finished work of redemption as the allsufficient means of our salvation AND NOT IN WORKS.
I already understand. Quit trying to explain away the simple truth. Genesis 15:6 - Abraham believed the Lord, and he counted it (faith, not works) to him as righteousness *many years BEFORE he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22 in which he was said to be justified by works (James 2:21), which here means "shown to be righteous" and not accounted as righteousness. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, (accounted as righteous) he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness." Not hard to understand, just hard for you to ACCEPT.
There must be genuine faith in order to produce good works. Through faith is not through faith and works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation.
Context. James did not say that this hypothetical person actually had faith, but has not yet produced works. He said says/claims to have faith but has no works, given the opportunity and the time to produce them (James 2:15-16). Faith without works means "empty profession of faith that does not produce any works." James does not mean that faith is dead until it gives a brother or sister the things which are needed for the body for a dead faith cannot produce genuine good works. It must be alive in Christ first. An empty profession of faith demonstrates that it's dead if instead of giving a brother or sister the things needed for the body when given the opportunity, instead says depart in peace, be warmed and filled. The meaning of established is: to cause to come into existence or begin operating; found; set up. Was Abraham's faith in existence in Genesis 15:6 when he believed the Lord and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness prior to Genesis 22 or was his faith dead and nonexistent until he offered up Isaac on the altar many years later?
Actually, it does. Romans 1:16 -For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who BELIEVES. Prior to believing the gospel and becoming saved, saving faith in Christ is not established.
Faith is not established upon simply hearing the word, but upon believing in Him/faith in Christ (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8).
Notice that Acts 16:31 says to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved," not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and get baptized and you will be saved. Their baptism followed their faith and conversion, just as it did in Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18. In Acts 11:17, referring back to the event that took place in Acts 10, we see that God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) when they BELIEVED in the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47). It was established that they BELIEVED in the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE they were baptized. Placing their faith in Christ for salvation constituted BELIEVING. Baptism took place AFTERWARDS. There is a distinction between BELIEVING and getting baptized AFTERWARDS (Acts 10:43-48; 11:17; 16:31-33). If someone places their faith in Christ for salvation and then drops dead of a heart attack before they have a chance to get water baptized, does that mean they did not place their faith in Christ for salvation? NO! Does the water magically make someone believe something that they were unable to believe before they were baptized? NO! Do you baptize unbelievers in order to make them believers? NO! It's not hard to understand, it's just hard for you to ACCEPT because you DON'T BELIEVE.
Context. James did not say that this hypothetical person actually had faith, but has not yet produced works. He said says/claims to have faith but has no works, given the opportunity and the time to produce them (James 2:15-16). Faith without works means "empty profession of faith that does not produce any works." James does not mean that faith is dead until it gives a brother or sister the things which are needed for the body for a dead faith cannot produce genuine good works. It must be alive in Christ first. An empty profession of faith demonstrates that it's dead if instead of giving a brother or sister the things needed for the body when given the opportunity, instead says depart in peace, be warmed and filled. The meaning of established is: to cause to come into existence or begin operating; found; set up. Was Abraham's faith in existence in Genesis 15:6 when he believed the Lord and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness prior to Genesis 22 or was his faith dead and nonexistent until he offered up Isaac on the altar many years later?
Actually, it does. Romans 1:16 -For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who BELIEVES. Prior to believing the gospel and becoming saved, saving faith in Christ is not established.
Faith is not established upon simply hearing the word, but upon believing in Him/faith in Christ (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8).
Notice that Acts 16:31 says to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved," not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and get baptized and you will be saved. Their baptism followed their faith and conversion, just as it did in Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18. In Acts 11:17, referring back to the event that took place in Acts 10, we see that God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) when they BELIEVED in the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47). It was established that they BELIEVED in the Lord Jesus Christ BEFORE they were baptized. Placing their faith in Christ for salvation constituted BELIEVING. Baptism took place AFTERWARDS. There is a distinction between BELIEVING and getting baptized AFTERWARDS (Acts 10:43-48; 11:17; 16:31-33). If someone places their faith in Christ for salvation and then drops dead of a heart attack before they have a chance to get water baptized, does that mean they did not place their faith in Christ for salvation? NO! Does the water magically make someone believe something that they were unable to believe before they were baptized? NO! Do you baptize unbelievers in order to make them believers? NO! It's not hard to understand, it's just hard for you to ACCEPT because you DON'T BELIEVE.
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You don't get it do you.
Condemnation is due to unbelief. To be saved, you must believe. 180 degree change in mind, from belief to non belief.
What was Johns message?? REPENT and BELIEVE in the gospel
What was Jesus message?? "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentnance". "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish".
How about Peter?? Repent and be converted (acts 3)
if you want to be concerted, you have to repent, because it is repentance that causes faith in Christ. Your not going to have faith in unbelief.
Yet Jesus said faith as amall as a mustard seed can move mountains. A person in unbelief does not even have that minute amount of faith. He must repent before he will even have that minute amount of faith.
Going from unbelief to belief is by defenition repenting.