If Man Has No Role In His Own Salvation......

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O

oldthennew

Guest
#21
Whoremongers, adulterers', murderers, are lost for they did not fulfill their required role in being saved....they did not "save themselves" but cause themselves to be lost by not doing their role in their own salvation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SeaBass,

we are in no way saying that 'salvation' can be achieved by' works', BUT, what we are saying is -
(what we DO matters.)
Matt.5:19.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Paul makes a very specific list of things that, IF you practice them, you WILL NOT inherit The Kingdom of God.
Acts 2:40.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this un-to-ward generation.

Phil.2:12.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only,
but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

PHIL.2:14.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Paul sums up the over-all principle when he is speaking to the believers in Galatia,
'Be not deceived, God is not mocked, for what-so-ever a man sows, that shall he also reap.'
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#22
We are not saving our selves..we are choosing to be saved by Christ...dont you feel you are taking something away from Christ if you say we saving our self? If we are drowning and someone swims out and saves us are they not the hero? Even though we chose to hang onto that person they are still the one who saved you from drowning..(Are you purposely trying to get people to see that it matters how we state things)?
=============================================================================

angelmommie,

Yes, angel,
it certainly does matter how we state things, as it is written, 'Let the words of my mouth and the meditation
of my heart, be acceptable in Thy sight, oh Lord, my Strength and my Redeemer,'

and again,' Let you speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how to
answer every man.'
and again, 'Always be ready to give an answer of the hope that lies within you.'

'Grievous words stir up anger, but a soft answer turns away wrath.'

angel, the important principle is the scripture that says, 'by your words you shall be condemned,
and by your words, you shall be justified.'

we try our best each moment that God has allowed us to live and believe in Him
we have on our 'training-britches' and we in no wise speak from upon a 'high-horse.

GBY
 
B

BananaPie

Guest
#23
Well, your premise is wrong.

Salvation has existed from the beginning of time, long before humans were created by God. To assume that a mortal has any role in salvation when such mortal was not even a created being is a faulty premise.

For example, just because a Teen drives a Ford, doesn't mean that Teen had a "role" in the design and manufacturing of the vehicle. Furthermore, if I chose never to drive any vehicle, that decision has no bearing upon, and is completely irrelevant to, the car industry, does it? :D

Chuck
Swindoll once said "Anything under God's control is never out-of-control."
Chuck also said, "I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me, and 90% how I react to it, and so it is with you... we are in charge of our attitudes."

That's all.

Our response to God's salvation is the extend of our attitude: we either agree with God 100%, or we don't. To God be the glory, for great things He has done. :)
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#24
.....and God's role is 100%
"God does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his had or say to him: 'What have you done?' "
(Da 4:35)

.....and God desires the wicked not to die but to repent/turn and live Eze 33:11
God commanded Pharoah to obey him, and also foretold Moses that he would harden Pharoah's heart
so that (intention/purpose) he would not obey him (Ex 4:21).

.....and God is willing all men come to repentance 2 Pet 3:9
Yet, repentance is a gift of God (2Tim 2:25 Ac 11:18, 5:31) which he does not give to every one.

.....and Christ died for every man Heb 2:9
"Man" is not in the Greek text and has been added in your translation.

If one is to add a word to Heb 2:9, it must agree with the whole counsel of God.
The word "son" agrees with the whole counsel of God.
Christ died for every son of God.

.....then every man must be saved, not a single one lost.
Your conclusion is based on an incomplete and, therefore, faulty premise.

If not, why?
Because you have not included the whole counsel of God.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#25
Same tune, eh, SeaBass? Do you know how to discuss anything else? This is one fish I'm going to throw back in the water.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#26
dear ones,
how can we not love Him every moment that we take a breath?
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#27
Originally Posted by Angelmommie
Dont you "exerciser" free will everyday..dont you chose to love Him everyday?

'angelmommie,

how wise you are my beloved, we have no choice but to love Him with every thing we have, and beyond.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#28
You forgot few....

The grace of God that brings salvation has shined down upon ALL mankind.....

God has dealt to everyman a MEASURE of faith<---of God
Faith is a spiritual gift<----of God
Jesus died on the cross to fulfill the will of the Father<---of God
The Father saves dia Jesus<---of God
God forgives sin dia Jesus<-----Of God
Holy Spirit seals unto the day of redemption<---Of God
Blood of Christ paid the price<---Of God

It is all OF/FROM GOD and until you lay down your own abilities, the picture of water and Campbellite doctrine you will never understand the simplicity that is in Christ.......!

You will never understand that it is God that
1. Calls men
2. Convicts men
3. Enlightens men
4. Saves men
5. Justifies men
6. Sanctifies men
7. Eternally seals men
8. Transposes men into his SPIRITUAL KINGDOM

through the SIMPLE act of faith......!

Now read carefully........and slowly......IT PLEASED GOD BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE!

GOD is the one who SPIRITUALLY GIVES the ability to BELIEVE as FAITH IS A GIFT!
 
Mar 28, 2014
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#29
Luke 14:34

John 3:18-21

Why will you not believe and receive? Why do you resist God?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
31
0
#30
You forgot few....

The grace of God that brings salvation has shined down upon ALL mankind.....

God has dealt to everyman a MEASURE of faith<---of God
Faith is a spiritual gift<----of God
Jesus died on the cross to fulfill the will of the Father<---of God
The Father saves dia Jesus<---of God
God forgives sin dia Jesus<-----Of God
Holy Spirit seals unto the day of redemption<---Of God
Blood of Christ paid the price<---Of God

It is all OF/FROM GOD and until you lay down your own abilities, the picture of water and Campbellite doctrine you will never understand the simplicity that is in Christ.......!

You will never understand that it is God that
1. Calls men
2. Convicts men
3. Enlightens men
4. Saves men
5. Justifies men
6. Sanctifies men
7. Eternally seals men
8. Transposes men into his SPIRITUAL KINGDOM

through the SIMPLE act of faith......!

Now read carefully........and slowly......IT PLEASED GOD BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE!

GOD is the one who SPIRITUALLY GIVES the ability to BELIEVE as FAITH IS A GIFT!
all that is required of man is obedience.....
Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#31
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
====================================================

Judgment = 3,000 were slain.
Mercy = 3,000 were saved

EXODUS 32:28.
So the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses. And about 3,000 men of the people fell that day.

ACTS 2:41.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

EZ.18:25.
Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel;
Is not My way equal? are not your ways unequal?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#32
God has a sovereign right to confront every man about his sin. You have a choice as to how to answer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
How does the answer the issue that if man has no role in his own salvation then all men will be saved?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#33
Salvation is not a choice, it is a common gift of God, given to all like the sun or rain.

So you believe in Universalism that God will save all men. But what about those many that Jesus said would enter through the narrow strait gate to destruction?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#34
i heard a story on the radio last week about a man wanting to join a church, and the elders were interviewing him.
they asked him how it was that he got saved from sin. he said -
"God did His part and i did my part"​
now they thought they had him - they said which part was yours and which part was God's? he answered -
"i did the sinning, and God did the saving"

what do you guys think of that?
First, men do not join Christ's church nor do other men vote on membership. God adds those that obey (Acts 2:38 cf 47) to His church.

Secondly, since all men "do the sinning" and God does the saving, then God will save all sinning men. You're pushing Universalism on us?
 
Jun 4, 2014
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#35
So you believe in Universalism that God will save all men. But what about those many that Jesus said would enter through the narrow strait gate to destruction?
Enter into what? The kingdom of heaven! Why do they enter into the kingdom of heaven by the broad path of destruction? Because they do not believe that if no man has a role in his own salvation, then all men will be saved.

Jesus is risen never to die again. We therefore are the children who enter in by destruction. I've been advocating the riddance of money for a whole now as the first step in us finding the narrow path, but we love bills, debt and death.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#36
personally it seems like every time i exercise "free will" it's to move away from God.

and every time i move towards Him, it turns out i was "predestined" to.

If man has no role in his own salvation then God is at fault, culpable for those that are lost and saved. God causes men to be saved or lost against man's own will. Yet in my OP I showed God does not cause men to be lost against his own will but God desires the wicked to repent and live, all men come to repentance. So if man has no role in his own salvation then God will save all men > Universalism.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#37
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SeaBass,

we are in no way saying that 'salvation' can be achieved by' works', BUT, what we are saying is -
(what we DO matters.)
Matt.5:19.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Paul makes a very specific list of things that, IF you practice them, you WILL NOT inherit The Kingdom of God.
Acts 2:40.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this un-to-ward generation.

Phil.2:12.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only,
but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

PHIL.2:14.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Paul sums up the over-all principle when he is speaking to the believers in Galatia,
'Be not deceived, God is not mocked, for what-so-ever a man sows, that shall he also reap.'
What one does matters to his SALVATION, Rom 2:6-11 for what one does determines where his eternal destiny will be.

On the other hand if man has no role at all in his own salvation then what he does would not matter at all for what one does or doesn't do has nothing to do with his salvation.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#38
Well, your premise is wrong.

Salvation has existed from the beginning of time, long before humans were created by God. To assume that a mortal has any role in salvation when such mortal was not even a created being is a faulty premise.

For example, just because a Teen drives a Ford, doesn't mean that Teen had a "role" in the design and manufacturing of the vehicle. Furthermore, if I chose never to drive any vehicle, that decision has no bearing upon, and is completely irrelevant to, the car industry, does it? :D

Chuck
Swindoll once said "Anything under God's control is never out-of-control."
Chuck also said, "I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me, and 90% how I react to it, and so it is with you... we are in charge of our attitudes."

That's all.

Our response to God's salvation is the extend of our attitude: we either agree with God 100%, or we don't. To God be the glory, for great things He has done. :)
So I have no role in my salvation to believe Jn 8:24? to repent of my sins Lk 13:3,5? TO confess Christ Mt 10:32,33, to be baptized for remission of my sins Acts 2:38?

SInce salvation is "out of man's control" and God desires all men to be saved (see my OP) the GOd will saved all men, Universalism.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
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#39
"God does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his had or say to him: 'What have you done?' "
(Da 4:35)


God commanded Pharoah to obey him, and also foretold Moses that he would harden Pharoah's heart
so that (intention/purpose) he would not obey him (Ex 4:21).


Yet, repentance is a gift of God (2Tim 2:25 Ac 11:18, 5:31) which he does not give to every one.


"Man" is not in the Greek text and has been added in your translation.

If one is to add a word to Heb 2:9, it must agree with the whole counsel of God.
The word "son" agrees with the whole counsel of God.
Christ died for every son of God.

Your conclusion is based on an incomplete and, therefore, faulty premise.


Because you have not included the whole counsel of God.
You're saying God causing men to be lost against man's own will. Yet Eze 33:11 says God wants the wicked to turn from his evil and live. Paul says God desires all come to repentance.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#40
Same tune, eh, SeaBass? Do you know how to discuss anything else? This is one fish I'm going to throw back in the water.
Just pointing out the falsehoods of claiming man has no role in his own salvation. This is just a basic part of the gospel many are wrong about. How can one move on to the meat of the word when they do not even have the milk?