If Man Has No Role In His Own Salvation......
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Then not being baptized is doing what is NOT right in the eyes of the Lord.
Can one never do any works in obeying what the Lord has said or never do any good works and that lack of works be right in the eyes of the Lord? No. So your and my role in salvation is doing what is right in the eyes of the Lord.
Faith only - per James - is not genuine because claims to have faith but has no works demonstrates that this is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith. Where is the evidence of this claim that can be seen? Works are the demonstrative evidence that one has genuine faith and is saved. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine faith, but not the essence of genuine faith and not the means of our salvation. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit demonstrates that there is no root.
I see that you avoided answering my question so I will ask you again. Is obeying righteousness/the truth/doing good accomplished from a lost condition or a saved condition? Is this produced by a living faith or a dead faith?
Nobody said that one is saved while they continue to practice sin and not righteousness (1 John 3:10). Children of God practice righteousness and not sin BECAUSE they are a child of God, not to become a child of God. Children of the devil practice sin and not righteousness BECAUSE they are a child of the devil, not to become a child of the devil. John did not mention a third camp that consists of children of God who continue to practice sin and NOT righteousness.
Salvation is not possible until one FIRST believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, THEN he becomes righteous - his FAITH is ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 4:5). Then working righteousness is the fruit of salvation.
That's not what Peter said. A lost person does not work righteousness but unrighteousness. One must be saved through faith FIRST then one works righteousness from a righteous heart. Peter prefaced his message with a frank admission. He previously believed that God's favor was limited to the nation of Israel. Now he realized that God did not respect a man's person because of his nationality. Working righteousness is the result of an already existing faith. We are not saved by works of righteousness (Titus 3:5), but works in connection with salvation are always the result of, not the condition of, receiving salvation. These verses are giving a description of a believer (Christian), not a prerequisite to become saved. My goodness you have all of this backwards!
By faith Abel offered a sacrifice (Heb. 11:4). Abel offered a sacrifice "by" (out of) a faith that "he already had" and confirmed his faith by what he did. Cain demonstrated an evil heart by his evil deeds, while Abel demonstrated a pious heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by faith and Cain did not. Because of Cain's faith, God accounted him as righteous. His faith was evidenced in obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. That sacrifice did not make him righteous, but through it he was shown to be righteous because of his faith (James 2:18). Cain's sacrifice was evidence that his faith was not genuine. Abel's offering proved something about his faith that was not demonstrated by Cain's offering.
The one who practices righteousness does so BECAUSE he is righteous, not to become righteous, just as the one who practices sin does so BECAUSE is of the devil, not to become of the devil. Carefully read 1 John 3:7-10 again.
So you believe it's all about works of righteousness which they have done that is the basis for receiving eternal life and faith didn't matter in the OT? What do we read under the New Covenant in Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5 and 2 Timothy 1:9? The order is repent, believe the gospel, righteous standing with God, followed by working righteousness.
Repent, faith, righteous, fruit - keep statutes, do lawful, right. Does a wicked person keep statutes, do lawful and what is right or a righteous person?
Repentance precedes saving faith in Christ, then this person keeps His commandments and practices righteousness (1 John 2:3; 1 John 3:10). By this we KNOW that we HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM if we keep His commandments, not finally come to know Him from a lost condition after we keep His commandments. Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, so only those who are born of God FIRST then practice righteousness.
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? “If he trust in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS.” This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. The New Testament states in Romans 10:3-4 - “For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one who BELIEVES.”
As James Fawcett Brown point out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous. First please notice the underlined words "his righteousness" meaning that the "righteous" turns from his righteousness. That is his OWN righteousness.
Nothing about faith then at all? Is this salvation by works? We turn from wickedness when we repent and we believe the gospel and become saved (Acts 20:21; Acts 3:19; 11:17-18; Romans 1:16). Only righteous people because of their faith do what is lawful and right. In Genesis 26:4 - "I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." Was this the point in which Abraham's faith was accounted for righteousness? NO. Read Genesis 15:5-6 which happened many years before. Genesis 15:5 - Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 And he believed the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
How do wicked people practice righteousness? Wicked people FIRST repent and believe on Him who justifies the ungodly, then their faith is accounted for righteousness. Then practicing righteousness follows. What you are saying is that a wicked person accomplishes works of righteousness in order to save themselves by works and then they shall save their soul alive based on these works of righteousness? (Titus 3:5). What happened to faith?
So a wicked person spends his entire life doing righteousness in order to be saved by works? Where do we read this in the NT? Lost souls do righteousness?
What happened to faith in your works formula plan of salvation? When a person repents and believes the gospel, they become saved. Turning from doing unrighteousness to doing which is lawful/doing righteousness is the fruit of repentance/faith (Matthew 3:8; Acts 26:20). So according to you, we have not been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8,9) but will be saved by works which follow?
DEEDS determine and demonstrate the condition of our heart which determines if we will receive eternal life or not. Notice that ALL who will receive eternal life are described as everyone who does good and ALL who will not receive eternal life are described as everyone who does evil. Luke 6:45 - A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. Notice the heart condition precedes the results. It's the same with DEEDS as the result of the heart condition.
False. We have been saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Then after one is saved/created in Christ Jesus - what follows? - UNTO/FOR good works (Ephesians 2:10). So contrary to scripture, you teach that salvation is "attained" and "maintained" by works. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls (1 Peter 1:9). It's obvious what you are trusting in for salvation - WORKS and not Christ alone. You are in the same boat with Roman Catholics and Mormons. Difference in style, but same in substance - "works based" false gospel.
I see that you avoided answering my question so I will ask you again. Is obeying righteousness/the truth/doing good accomplished from a lost condition or a saved condition? Is this produced by a living faith or a dead faith?
Nobody said that one is saved while they continue to practice sin and not righteousness (1 John 3:10). Children of God practice righteousness and not sin BECAUSE they are a child of God, not to become a child of God. Children of the devil practice sin and not righteousness BECAUSE they are a child of the devil, not to become a child of the devil. John did not mention a third camp that consists of children of God who continue to practice sin and NOT righteousness.
Salvation is not possible until one FIRST believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, THEN he becomes righteous - his FAITH is ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 4:5). Then working righteousness is the fruit of salvation.
That's not what Peter said. A lost person does not work righteousness but unrighteousness. One must be saved through faith FIRST then one works righteousness from a righteous heart. Peter prefaced his message with a frank admission. He previously believed that God's favor was limited to the nation of Israel. Now he realized that God did not respect a man's person because of his nationality. Working righteousness is the result of an already existing faith. We are not saved by works of righteousness (Titus 3:5), but works in connection with salvation are always the result of, not the condition of, receiving salvation. These verses are giving a description of a believer (Christian), not a prerequisite to become saved. My goodness you have all of this backwards!
By faith Abel offered a sacrifice (Heb. 11:4). Abel offered a sacrifice "by" (out of) a faith that "he already had" and confirmed his faith by what he did. Cain demonstrated an evil heart by his evil deeds, while Abel demonstrated a pious heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by faith and Cain did not. Because of Cain's faith, God accounted him as righteous. His faith was evidenced in obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. That sacrifice did not make him righteous, but through it he was shown to be righteous because of his faith (James 2:18). Cain's sacrifice was evidence that his faith was not genuine. Abel's offering proved something about his faith that was not demonstrated by Cain's offering.
The one who practices righteousness does so BECAUSE he is righteous, not to become righteous, just as the one who practices sin does so BECAUSE is of the devil, not to become of the devil. Carefully read 1 John 3:7-10 again.
So you believe it's all about works of righteousness which they have done that is the basis for receiving eternal life and faith didn't matter in the OT? What do we read under the New Covenant in Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5 and 2 Timothy 1:9? The order is repent, believe the gospel, righteous standing with God, followed by working righteousness.
Repent, faith, righteous, fruit - keep statutes, do lawful, right. Does a wicked person keep statutes, do lawful and what is right or a righteous person?
Repentance precedes saving faith in Christ, then this person keeps His commandments and practices righteousness (1 John 2:3; 1 John 3:10). By this we KNOW that we HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM if we keep His commandments, not finally come to know Him from a lost condition after we keep His commandments. Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, so only those who are born of God FIRST then practice righteousness.
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? “If he trust in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS.” This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. The New Testament states in Romans 10:3-4 - “For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one who BELIEVES.”
As James Fawcett Brown point out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous. First please notice the underlined words "his righteousness" meaning that the "righteous" turns from his righteousness. That is his OWN righteousness.
Nothing about faith then at all? Is this salvation by works? We turn from wickedness when we repent and we believe the gospel and become saved (Acts 20:21; Acts 3:19; 11:17-18; Romans 1:16). Only righteous people because of their faith do what is lawful and right. In Genesis 26:4 - "I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." Was this the point in which Abraham's faith was accounted for righteousness? NO. Read Genesis 15:5-6 which happened many years before. Genesis 15:5 - Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." 6 And he believed the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
How do wicked people practice righteousness? Wicked people FIRST repent and believe on Him who justifies the ungodly, then their faith is accounted for righteousness. Then practicing righteousness follows. What you are saying is that a wicked person accomplishes works of righteousness in order to save themselves by works and then they shall save their soul alive based on these works of righteousness? (Titus 3:5). What happened to faith?
So a wicked person spends his entire life doing righteousness in order to be saved by works? Where do we read this in the NT? Lost souls do righteousness?
What happened to faith in your works formula plan of salvation? When a person repents and believes the gospel, they become saved. Turning from doing unrighteousness to doing which is lawful/doing righteousness is the fruit of repentance/faith (Matthew 3:8; Acts 26:20). So according to you, we have not been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8,9) but will be saved by works which follow?
DEEDS determine and demonstrate the condition of our heart which determines if we will receive eternal life or not. Notice that ALL who will receive eternal life are described as everyone who does good and ALL who will not receive eternal life are described as everyone who does evil. Luke 6:45 - A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. Notice the heart condition precedes the results. It's the same with DEEDS as the result of the heart condition.
False. We have been saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Then after one is saved/created in Christ Jesus - what follows? - UNTO/FOR good works (Ephesians 2:10). So contrary to scripture, you teach that salvation is "attained" and "maintained" by works. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls (1 Peter 1:9). It's obvious what you are trusting in for salvation - WORKS and not Christ alone. You are in the same boat with Roman Catholics and Mormons. Difference in style, but same in substance - "works based" false gospel.
Of the which you still fail to understand as your own works and religion still blind you to the truth while making you two fold the child of hell.....
BELIEVE and thou shalt be SAVED!
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE!
Pay attention to the word FOOLISHNESS as that is what you cannot seem to get over.....you must add your works and water which is a work....while rejecting GALATIANS chapter 1 and 3....
FAITH plus WORKS to gain or keep salvation = HELL
Keep rejection the truth...time is running out...tick tock...tick tock...!
BELIEVE and thou shalt be SAVED!
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE!
Pay attention to the word FOOLISHNESS as that is what you cannot seem to get over.....you must add your works and water which is a work....while rejecting GALATIANS chapter 1 and 3....
FAITH plus WORKS to gain or keep salvation = HELL
Keep rejection the truth...time is running out...tick tock...tick tock...!
Labor in the flesh will never produce meat that endure unto everlasting life. Jesus speaks of Spiritual truth and you see only the carnal.
You are right that Jesus settled the issue. Ye must be born again by the power of the Holy Spirit through the word of God and by the determinate will of God. Nothing of yourself but wholly by grace through faith due to the mercy of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are right that Jesus settled the issue. Ye must be born again by the power of the Holy Spirit through the word of God and by the determinate will of God. Nothing of yourself but wholly by grace through faith due to the mercy of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
I think jesus said it best.
John 6
[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? [SUP]62 [/SUP]What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? [SUP]63[/SUP]It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Amen and I agree....Paul said outwardly he could not be blamed and had kept the law (outwardly) but yet needed biblical salvation which he received when he acknowledge the Lord(ship) of Jesus on the road to Damascus.......
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.....believe and thou shalt be saved...quite simple...too bad many are removed from the simplicity that is found in Christ.......!
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.....believe and thou shalt be saved...quite simple...too bad many are removed from the simplicity that is found in Christ.......!
K
Problem with that is that even Jesus said the way is narrow and difficult, not simple.....
Matthew 7:14
But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.
If you just simply have to believe, then it makes the road broad, easy, and many will enter. But Jesus says not all who call Him Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. Why is this ?
Because even though they believe in Him they continue to be disobedient to His teachings, want to continue to walk in willful sin, and do things for their own profit, praise, and gain. Instead of doing it out of love for our Lord.
You completely missed the point. The easy way is the way of man. Each doing what seemeth right in his own eyes. Gods way is narrow. It is Christ or nothing. It is grace or nothing. Works allow for the broadest of spectrums in which many things can seem right and profitable but are not.
Jesus did tell us that His yoke was easy and His burden was light that being because He would help with the load.
You speak as one who does not know.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus did tell us that His yoke was easy and His burden was light that being because He would help with the load.
You speak as one who does not know.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I suggest you re-evaluate based upon the following....
Faith based salvation<---believed by the MINORITY
WORKS and WATER based salvation<----believed by the MAJORITY
Jesus rebuked and called lost those who believed in a law/works based entrance into the kingdom of heaven...
MANY will come claiming their right to enter based upon the GOOD WORKS they have done in the name of JESUS...HE never knew them as in the fact they came the BROAD WAY
Your addition of the word DIFFICULT to Matthew 7:14 belies your approach to the word of GOD!
Faith based salvation<---believed by the MINORITY
WORKS and WATER based salvation<----believed by the MAJORITY
Jesus rebuked and called lost those who believed in a law/works based entrance into the kingdom of heaven...
MANY will come claiming their right to enter based upon the GOOD WORKS they have done in the name of JESUS...HE never knew them as in the fact they came the BROAD WAY
Your addition of the word DIFFICULT to Matthew 7:14 belies your approach to the word of GOD!
E
I agree, One who is not a doer is a fake and a fraud, And has utterly no faith in God.
But doing the word will never save you, Call out on the name of the lord (in faith) and you will be saved. If your trying to work for it, Your trust is in self. Not God. Your faith is just as dead in God as a person who does nothing because he does not trust God.
But doing the word will never save you, Call out on the name of the lord (in faith) and you will be saved. If your trying to work for it, Your trust is in self. Not God. Your faith is just as dead in God as a person who does nothing because he does not trust God.
E
I disagree, We can see by the people we talk to how hard it is just to have faith and trust God, it seems to easy, so can;t be true (which means in reality it is very hard.)
Now the wide gate, How many people are working to try to earn it, by whatever means they believe must be done, Between the catholics and all their sacraments, and the water regenerationals.. A diverse group of people, all who can not even agree. In fact. It would be easier to work to earn it, because then at least you do not just have blind faith, you have something you can see.
Now the wide gate, How many people are working to try to earn it, by whatever means they believe must be done, Between the catholics and all their sacraments, and the water regenerationals.. A diverse group of people, all who can not even agree. In fact. It would be easier to work to earn it, because then at least you do not just have blind faith, you have something you can see.
K
Your right it is through Jesus Christ, by no other does one achieve salvation.
The thing is that in order to be in Jesus Christ, your faith and belief in Him to be your Lord and Savior is to also believe and obey what He taught.
If you do not obey and follow His teachings then you are still denying Him.
People want to go by just believe, it is that simple, but Jesus tells us in His teachings what believing in Him requires and looks like. Each time it shows that those who are faithful and obedient to Him and His teachings get eternal life.
This is why their will be wailing and gnashing of teeth at the judgment, because there will be some who thought they were saved but because they only had mere belief and did not follow His teachings as well will be cast away.