If sin is not imputed without the law, how can some claim that babies and children die because Adam's sin is imputed to them?

[PaulThomson]

When you get there, you can try to test God and sin I suppose, providing that you make it through that narrow gate to begin with.


🦄

Snide side-swipes do not make a convincing argument to someone not cowering to the fear of man, or woman, or subject to man-pleasing, or woman-pleasing.

You are, however, demonstrating your lack of evidence for what you so confidently assert.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Jesus knows every detail of the past and present. Does that mean we will too? Jesus is supremely powerful to do whatever He wills. Does that mean we will be too? How do you decide which divine perfections we will have, and which divine perfections we will only be growing more competent in?

For someone who studies the Bible so much, you often miss the mark!

That verse is not about acquiring God's supernatural powers - it's about acquiring godly characteristics. That's what the Holy Spirit has been working on us this whole time as we live out our walk with Him. And that is what will be achieved.

This is why I can confidently say that since Jesus doesn't sin (godly characteristic), we won't either.


🦄

 

[Genez]

aiOn , English aeon/eon is Greek for a period of time of indeterminate or unspecified duration. It does not mean primarily an endless period of time. Although an endless period of time is an aiOn, most aiOnas/ aeons are not endless.

There is a semantic rule that the range of an adjective formed from a noun cannot exceed the semantic scope of the noun which is its root. So, spidery, an adjective from spider, conveys a range of content that is less tham is contained in spider. It describes something that in some way is reminiscent of spiders in general, such as a haphazard meandering writing style. monstrous from monster, can mean huge or grotesque, which are characteristics of many monsters. aiOnios/aeonous is an adjective formed from aiOn/aeon. It is not a general feature of aiOnas/aeons that they are never-ending, so we should not force that meaning into the word. It means "of indeterminate or unspecified duration" or it may be used to refer to having some particular characteristic that pertains to a particular age, such as of the age to come, which is often in view in scripture. but is distinct from the other coming ages beyond th next one.

So. aiOnios zoE, is not never-ending life, but indefinitely long life, what I call aeonous life; or maybe the kind of life that pertains to the coming age, in which saints will live in unfettered fellowship with Christ on the present physical earth in resurrected physical bodies.

So it is what it is, but not always is what that was. Right?

Thank you....

 

[Genez]

When you get there, you can try to test God and sin I suppose, providing that you make it through that narrow gate to begin with.

When we receive the full fellowship with God that He is now training us to be ready for?
Who would want to sin?????? Is God boring? Not good enough for us?

The twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne ​

and worship him who lives for ever and ever. ​

​

They lay their crowns before the throne and say:​

​

“You are worthy, our Lord and God,​

to receive glory and honor and power,​

for you created all things,​

and by your will they were created​

and have their being.”​

Revelation 4:10-11

Our perception of God will be so overwhelming and spectacular (and ultra satisfying) that sin would seem as ridiculous to us as trying to bribe a billionaire with a penny.

 

[PaulThomson]

For someone who studies the Bible so much, you often miss the mark!

That verse is not about acquiring God's supernatural powers - it's about acquiring godly characteristics. That's what the Holy Spirit has been working on us this whole time as we live out our walk with Him. And that is what will be achieved.

This is why I can confidently say that since Jesus doesn't sin (godly characteristic), we won't either.


🦄

If you can be like Christ now, and growing in Christlike character now, while still being capable of sin now, what makes it necessary for us to be incapable of sin in the age to come in order for us to continue growing toward the perfection that is Christ's. then?

 

[Genez]

Why not??

Sinful flesh can not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

​

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, ​

nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.​

1 Corinthians 15:50

That is why Adam's sin was first priority to be dealt with on the Cross!
If it were not? No one would be allowed to live to make their choice for salvation.

The atonement of the Cross was all encompassing.

.......

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

When we receive the full fellowship with God that He is now training us to be ready for?
Who would want to sin?????? Is God boring? Not good enough for us?

The twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne ​

and worship him who lives for ever and ever. ​

​

They lay their crowns before the throne and say:​

​

“You are worthy, our Lord and God,​

to receive glory and honor and power,​

for you created all things,​

and by your will they were created​

and have their being.”​

Revelation 4:10-11

Our perception of God will be so overwhelming and spectacular (and ultra satisfying) that sin would seem as ridiculous to us as trying to bribe a billionaire with a penny.

It's @PaulThomson who wants to know if sin is still possible after we are clothed with the imperishable. I don't know why. 🤷‍♀️

I'm actually looking forward to not sinning anymore as much as you are!


🦄

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

If you can be like Christ now, and growing in Christlike character now, while still being capable of sin now, what makes it necessary for us to be incapable of sin in the age to come in order for us to continue growing toward the perfection that is Christ's. then?

Let's go back to the verse:
1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

The verse acknowledges that right now, we're not like Him (although the Holy Spirit will make us more so as we continue to yield to Him right now), but promises that we will be like Him when Jesus appears. It doesn't say what it is exactly that will make us like Him - but we just have to trust and accept that we WILL. When we get to that point - we will know....

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

I think your problem is you want the Bible to literally say the stuff you want to see or give information that God doesn't feel you need to know right now. But listen to the Holy Spirit and He will show you the true answers to your questions in due time. Just keep in mind that a lot of times He will point out verses that aren't word for word what you're looking for.


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[SaysWhat]

Please enlighten me. which scripture says that?

I do know that scripture barred access to the tree of life lest man keep on putting forth their hand to it and keep on taking from it and keep on eating it and keep in living for an indeterminate duration. That's in Gen 3.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

And I do know that Rev 2 and 21 and 22 say that in the age to come resurrected saints will be granted access to the tree of life without which we could not live indeterminately according to Gen. 3:22.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

It is a fairly simple logical step to conclude that eating from the tree of life in the age to come will have the same effect as it did in the beginning in the garden of Eden.

Some have developed or absorbed from others a complicated gnosis that, in order to hold fast to that gnosis, requires them to deny the very obvious connection of these four scriptural data points. Why they are so wedded to their scripture refuting theory, I don't understand..

You posted it Gen 3:22,

And in another place God said they can eat from any tree in the garden except for one, which wasn't the tree of life.

Eating of the tree of life in the physical wasn't a automatic state of immortality. Adam could of been still living today if he had not eaten from the knowledge tree.

God has always been the Alpha and Omega, meaning there was always going to be a end to physical world regardless of what Adam did.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Sinful flesh can not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

​

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, ​

nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.​

1 Corinthians 15:50

That is why Adam's sin was first priority to be dealt with on the Cross!
If it were not? No one would be allowed to live to make their choice for salvation.

The atonement of the Cross was all encompassing.

.......

So you're saying children can go to hell? Or not?

 

[bluejean_bible]

Newborns come into this world under the sin of Adam just as we all have, and it will continue that way until the end. Say it isn't so, it's not fair all you want – but His word tells a different story.
The good news is that God has always had a covenant people. This is why there has always been a remnant of those that belong to Him.
His remnant come into this world holy (set aside) and blameless, not by nature but under the covenant of grace, and they will be kept that way!
Yes they must repent, be brought to faith, baptized etc... And the Holy Spirit will, at His time of choosing, cause this to happen.

So,you believe the unborn or newborns who die, go to Hell?

 

[bluejean_bible]

Notice those who imply babies,born and in utero, are born with the curse of sin, aren't as ready to answer the question, does that mean they go to Hell as sinners if they die in utero or as newborn?

Likely because they cannot substantiate the claim using scripture.

Maybe because of all the scriptures wherein Jesus praised the innocence of babies,children,and said,unless we become like them we shall not see the kingdom of Heaven.

If they were damned dinners in utero or as newborns,that teaching of Jesus would not make sense.

Unless we become like newborns or the unborn stained with original sin, we shall not see the kingdom of Heaven?

We might consider those who espouse the idea of newborns and the unborn being condemned sinners are actually Roman Catholic. Because Roman Catholicism espouses infant baptism. Which is also not biblical.

 

[CS1]

No, not from the time a baby is born. My 1 year old nephew doesn't know right from wrong. He is learning. If I disciplined him for not being able to walk or talk I would rightly be an abuser. God is no different.

You did not understand my point.

 

[Kroogz]

If you can be like Christ now, and growing in Christlike character now, while still being capable of sin now, what makes it necessary for us to be incapable of sin in the age to come in order for us to continue growing toward the perfection that is Christ's. then?

Our new nature, at this moment, and for all time CANNOT sin. Our new creation in Christ CANNOT sin.

While alive and on this earth we have a choice. Live through our flesh or live through the new nature.

This is why there is such debate and confusion. The meat of the word is ALWAYS for the believer who KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS eternal security. NEVER perishing. No, absolutely no, not ever coming into condemnation.

The Milk~~Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. PERIOD. NEVER perish. NO condemnation.

The meat~~Learning how to be filled and walk in the Spirit(our new creation.)

If we mix the milk and the meat~~ We are always confused. Filled with doubt. Salvation will be subjective. Human good(evil) WILL take over the believer.

 

[bluejean_bible]

No, not from the time a baby is born. My 1 year old nephew doesn't know right from wrong. He is learning. If I disciplined him for not being able to walk or talk I would rightly be an abuser. God is no different.

Amen.
I've browsed certain Christian communities wherein the topic of "original sin" is discussed.
Some there insist the unborn,miscarried,aborted,are sinners. As are newborns.
One post I remember distinctly. The member not only insisted those innocent are sinners because of their sin but,if they die in the womb or after birth they go straight to Hell.

Because they deserve to! As do all sinners.

I also remember praying right then and there, after asking if they had children (no), that God make them sterile.

So that no child would be born to one who would make their lives Hell right here on Earth.

God's people are referred to often enough as sheep and lambs. Make no mistake,there are psychopaths amid the flock too .

 

[bluejean_bible]

You did not understand my point.

If you insist the unborn and new orns go to Hell if they die,you have none.

 

[Kroogz]

So you're saying children can go to hell? Or not?

Ps139~~I will praise You, for [a]I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My [b]frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

Is 7~~16 For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.

2 Sam~~23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”

Jonah 4:11
Should I not also have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 people, who do not know the difference between their right hand and their left, as well as many animals?”

Not only the precious babies are safe, even the animals he created have His compassion.

Most Christians look at the "condemned at birth" as a curse. It is NOT. He can have compassion and mercy on ALL things that can't tell their left from their right.

All babies and mentally ill are SAFE.

 

[Genez]

It's @PaulThomson who wants to know if sin is still possible after we are clothed with the imperishable. I don't know why. 🤷‍♀️

I'm actually looking forward to not sinning anymore as much as you are!

Adam was not living in the constant presence of God.
Angels were assigned to the prehistoric earth and were given works to do that Satan found offensive after the novelty wore off.

But, why would anyone in a glorious resurrection body? Who will be overwhelmed with love for the Lord of our lives, ever want to sin?
Want to sin, as if God forgot something to give us for sharing in His eternal life?

Anyone who thinks we might want to sin still holds a dim view of the reality of what God is.

 

[bluejean_bible]

Adam was not living in the constant presence of God.
Angels were assigned to the prehistoric earth and were given works to do that Satan found offensive after the novelty wore off.

But, why would anyone in a glorious resurrection body? Who will be overwhelmed with love for the Lord of our lives, ever want to sin?
Want to sin, as if God forgot something to give us for sharing in His eternal life?

Anyone who thinks we might want to sin still holds a dim view of the reality of what God is.

why did Lucifer and 1/3rd of Heavens angels with him sin?

 

[Kroogz]

Pride and arrogance.