If "Soul Sleep" Is Correct Doctrine?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BigRIJoe

New member
Dec 25, 2021
5
3
3
#1
What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?
 
Oct 15, 2022
99
22
8
#2
I believe Paradise is synonymous with Abraham's Bosom, and still exists to this day.

The Saved 'rest' there until the Marriage Supper.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,635
13,033
113
#3
What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?
The punctuation of that verse would make a difference as to how this is understood.

Greek: καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμήν λέγω σοι σήμερον, μετ' ἐμοῦ ἔσῃ ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ
Literal Interlinear: And Jesus said to him, Truly to you I say today, with me you will be in Paradise.


Since Christ would only be in Paradise after His resurrection (three days later), at which time He would take all the OT saints with Him to the New Jerusalem, it would have been incorrect to say that He would be in Paradise on the day that He died. But because this verse was not punctuated properly, we get the wrong impression.

SOUL SLEEP IS FALSE DOCTRINE, SO DON'T BOTHER WITH THAT.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#4
What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?
He meant "Today you will be with me in paradise".
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,237
983
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#5
.
If there is such a thing as soul sleep, I won't know it; here's why:

I've been under anesthesia once for appendicitis, twice for hernias, once for
a scalp lump, once for a kidney stone, twice for total knee replacements,
once for a colonoscopy, once for an endoscopy, and once for lung cancer.

In none of those procedures was I aware of the passage of time. The very
moment I went under was simultaneous with awakening. So if soul sleep is
like that, I'll be in Heaven as if I went from here to there in less than a
second of time on the clock, i.e. instantaneously. The same can be said for
folks on track for the wrong side of things.
_
 

BigRIJoe

New member
Dec 25, 2021
5
3
3
#6
So
The punctuation of that verse would make a difference as to how this is understood.

Greek: καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμήν λέγω σοι σήμερον, μετ' ἐμοῦ ἔσῃ ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ
Literal Interlinear: And Jesus said to him, Truly to you I say today, with me you will be in Paradise.


Since Christ would only be in Paradise after His resurrection (three days later), at which time He would take all the OT saints with Him to the New Jerusalem, it would have been incorrect to say that He would be in Paradise on the day that He died. But because this verse was not punctuated properly, we get the wrong impression.

SOUL SLEEP IS FALSE DOCTRINE, SO DON'T BOTHER WITH THAT.
I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Do you mean it's a false doctrine
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,635
13,033
113
#7
I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Do you mean it's a false doctrine
Yes Soul Sleep is indeed a false doctrine. There are no souls sleeping six feet under the soil. Upon death, the body goes into the grave (and may give the appearance of repose or sleep). But the soul and spirit are either in Heaven (for those who are children of God) or Hades (for those who are not). At the same time sleep is used as a metaphor for the death of the saints.

When Christ died His body was placed in a tomb but His soul and spirit went to Hades for three days and three nights. He preached unto the spirits in prison at that time. All the OT saints were in Hades in a virtual prison when He got there. However, when Christ rose from the dead, He took all these saints with Him to Heaven (including that thief on the cross). He took "captivity captive".

Paradise is in the New Jerusalem in Heaven (not in Hades), but Christ went there only after three days and three nights, after being "in the heart of the earth" or "the lower parts of the earth" (Hades). Therefore what He said to that malefactor was that surely he would be with Him in Paradise at the appropriate time (after three days). That thief also went to Hades with Christ, and he was not an exception to be in Paradise on that same day of crucifixion.

The Greek text has no punctuation, so it was imperative that the translators place the punctuation at the right spot, or omit it altogether. But because that did not happen, there is an incorrect understanding of what was said. All English translations follow the KJV in this regard.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
6,090
1,752
113
#8
Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire after they give up their dead so, apparently Hades has a function up to that point. I think of it as categorical file cabinet of the dead, which only Jesus has the keys to (Rev 1:18).
It is generally taught that Jesus went to hell to preach to "the souls in prison" but this descriptive phrase is clarified by "of which 8 were saved through water." However, a more accurate understanding is that Jesus went by Spirit to preach to the spirits in prison (att: in the days of Noah) and eight "heard" him and were saved. No one "goes to hell" except by dying. So, when you hear that common curse, it is essentially telling you, "Die already."
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,658
588
113
#9
Well one would think this is easy to understand no offense. Christ said today you will be "with me" in paradise. That's where he is. Who showed up with Christ transfiguration "ust then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus. ". They seem to be awake and talking. We know Moses died so.. hmm
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#10
What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?
See study # 2 & 3 - https://archive.org/details/study-1...y-why-is-there-so-much-confusion-and-disagre/

QUESTION: WHAT ABOUT THE THIEF ON THE CROSS, DIDN’T JESUS SAY TO HIM THAT HE WOULD BE WITH JESUS IN “PARADISE” THAT DAY WHEN THEY DIED?

No. Read the passage carefully, for the thief asked Jesus to “remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom”, which Jesus had not received yet (Dan. 2:44, 7:13-14,27; Luk. 19:12):

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day[,] shalt thou be with me in paradise.​

Jesus, even three days after He had died (Jhn. 10:17; Rev. 1:18, 2:8; death is an enemy, not a friend, 1 Cor. 15:26), and was buried (descended to “hell”, aka grave; Psa. 16;10; Act. 2:27; Rom. 10:7; Eph. 4:9-10), remained in the tomb (Job 21:32), where He lay (Mat. 28:6), was not yet resurrected (Mat. 27:63), and had not yet ascended to the Father, in “paradise” (2 Cor. 12:2,4; Eph. 4:9-10; Rev. 2:7); and didn’t even lead some of the captivity (dead) captive (resurrected) until then (Psa. 68:18; Isa. 26:19; Psa. 24:1-10; 1 Cor. 15:20,23; Lev. 23:10-12; Mat. 27:52-53; Jhn. 14:2-4; 2 Tim. 1:10):

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.​

Jesus, after His ascension went to go receive a kingdom, but He has not yet received it (Isa. 61:10, 62:5; Mat. 19:28, 21:33, 25:14,31; Mar. 12:1; Luk. 20:9):

Luk_19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.​

The koine Greek has no punctuation, the English printed text is simply missing a comma, after the word “Today”, which was missed in the printing of the current edition (see Jhn. 1:51, 3:3,5,11, 5:19,24,25, 6:26,32,47,53, 8:34,51,58, 10:1,7, 12:24, 13:16,20,21,38, 14:12, 16:20,23, 21:18; Mat. 5:18,26, 6:2,5,16, 8:10, 10:15,23,42, 13:17; Preserves Words – Psa. 12:6-7):

Luk 23:43 GNT TR και ειπεν αυτω ο ιησους αμην λεγω σοι σημερον μετ εμου εση εν τω παραδεισω​

Jesus was saying, “To day, if ye will hear his voice” (see Psa. 95:7; see also Hebrews 3:7,15, 4:7), or Believe me today, or I promise you today (now), in the resurrection to come of all those who believed, you will be with me (see 2 Cor. 6:2; 1 Thes. 4:17, “Then … ever be with the Lord.”). A comma can make all the difference in the world:

(EXAMPLE:)Let's eat, Grandma!” vs. “Let's eat Grandma!” or “A woman, without her, man is nothing.” Vs “A woman without her man, is nothing.”

Even the “creeds” of ‘Catholicism’ do not teach Jesus went to “Paradise” that day:

Thomas Aquinas “Summa Theologica”, Third Part, Question 52; Article 4, Reply To Objection 1 [and throughout, having both the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur]:
“Reply to Objection 1. When Christ descended into hell He delivered the saints who were there, not by leading them out at once from the confines of hell, but by enlightening them with the light of glory in hell itself. Nevertheless it was fitting that His soul should abide in hell as long as His body remained in the tomb.” - http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4052.htm#article4
or we may see it from the “Creed of Aquiliea”":
“Descendit ad inferna; tertia die resurrexit a mortuis (He descended to hell; on the third day he rose again from the dead); Ascendit in cœlos; sedet ad dexteram Patris; (He ascended to the heavens; he sits at the right hand of the Father)”- http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2711.htm
or considering the “Apostles Creed”, it clearly states that Jesus was not “caught up to Heaven” until after the “third day”; “T” Apostles Creed :
“...(5) He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; (6) He ascended into Heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; ...” - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm
or considering the “Nicene Creed”, it clearly says of Jesus that he:
“...suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven...” - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm
or considering the “Athanasian Creed”, it clearly says of Jesus:
“...Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven...” - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#11
What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?
USEFUL TEXTS:

[sleep, slept, asleep, sleepeth] Genesis 2:21; Deuteronomy 31:16; 2 Samuel 7:12; Job 3:13, 7:21, 14:12; 1 Kings 1:21, 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20; Job 14:12; Psalms 13:3; Matthew 27:52; John 11:11-13; Acts 7:60, 13:36; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4;

[awake] Job 14:12; Psalms 17:15; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; John 11:11-13; [grave/bed] Job 17:13; Psalms 139:8; Luke 17:34;

[fathers and prophets are dead] John 6:49,58, 8:52,53; Acts 2:29,34, 13:36; Hebrews 11:4,13,16,40

[knowing nothing] Genesis 27:4, 45:28; Ruth 1:17; Job 3:17-19, 7:8-10, 14:21, 21:32; 2 Kings 22:20; 2 Chronicles 34:28; Psalms 6:5, 28:1, 31:17, 88:4,10,11, 115:17, 143:7, 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:4,5,6,10; Isaiah 14:11, 38:18;

[reserved] 2 Peter 2:9;

[Jesus goes to prepare a place, so at 2nd Advent, He will raise us and receive us] John 14:2-3

[grave, sepulchre, tomb, pit, hell [Hb: sheol; Gr: hades; grave]] Genesis 23:6, 35:20, 37:35, 44:29,31, 50:5; Exodus 14:11; Numbers 16:30, 19:16,18; Deuteronomy 34:6; Judges 8:32, 1 Samuel 2:6, 10:2; 2 Samuel 3:32, 4:10, 17:23, 19:37, 21:14, 22:6; 1 Kings 2:6,9, 13:22,30,31, 14:13; 2 Kings 9:28, 13:21, 21:26, 22:20, 23:6,16,17,30; 2 Chronicles 16:14, 21:20, 24:25, 28:27, 32:33, 34:4,28, 35:24; Nehemiah 2:3,5, 3:16; Job 3:17-19,22, 5:26, 7:8-10, 10:19, 11:8, 14:12-14,21, 17:1,13,16, 21:13,23-32, 24:19, 26:6, 30:24, 33:22; Psalms 5:9, 6:5, 18:5, 28:1, 30:3, 31:17, 35:7, 49:14,15, 55:15, 86:13, 88:3,4,5-12, 89:48, 94:13, 115:17, 116:3, 139:8, 141:7, 143:7; Proverbs 1:12, 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11,24, 23:14, 27:20, 30:16; Ecclesiastes 6:6, 9:10; Song of Songs 8:6; Isaiah 5:14, 14:9,11,15,19, 22:16, 28:15,18, 38:10,18, 53:9, 57:9, 65:4; Jeremiah 5:16, 8:1, 26:23, 20:17; Ezekiel 26:20, 31:15-17, 32:18,21-27, 37:12,13, 39:11; Hosea 13:14; Amos 9:2; Jonah 2:2 [<- figurative, typological]; Nahum 1:14; Habakkuk 2:5; Matthew 8:8, 11:23, 23:27,29, 27:52,53,60,61,64,66, 28:8; Mark 5:2,3,5, 6:29, 15:46, 16:2,3,5,8; Luke 8:27, 10:15, 11:47,48, 23:53,55, 24:1,2,9,12,22,24; John 5:28, 11:31,38, 12:17, 19:41,42, 20:1-4,6,8,11; Acts 2:29,34, 7:16, 13:29,36; Romans 3:13; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 1:18, 11:9, 20:13,14

[all that breathed died, no breath, breath nostrils] Genesis 2:7, 7:22; Joshua 10:40; 1 Kings 15:29, 17:17; Job 27:3; Isaiah 2:22; Jeremiah 10:14, 51:17; Lamentations 4:20; Ezekiel 37:8; Habakkuk 2:19

[the ghost, last breath] Genesis 25:8,17, 35:29, 49:33; Job 3:11, 10:18, 11:20, 13:19, 14:10; Jeremiah 15:9; Lamentations 1:19; Matthew 27:50; Mark 15:37,39; Luke 23:46; John 19:30; Acts 5:5,6,9,10, 12:23

[slept with his fathers, sleep with] Deuteronomy 31:16; 2 Samuel 7:12; 1 Kings 1:21, 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,3, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20; Acts 13:36

[gathered unto, laid unto] Genesis 25:17, 35:29, 49:29,33; Numbers 20:24,26, 27:13, 31:2; Deuteronomy 32:40; Judges 2:10; Acts 13:36

[no life without God/Jesus] John 6:53

[no blood, no life] Leviticus 17:14

[life is the opposite of death] Genesis 43:8; Deuteronomy 33:6; Proverbs 12:28; Philippians 1:21

[life can be laid down] John 15:13

[murderers do not have eternal life abiding in them] 1 John 3:15

[2nd-3rd Advent/Coming in Power and Glory] Zechariah 14:1-7; Daniel 2:35,44,45, 7:14,22,27, 8:25, 12:1-3; Matthew 19:28, 24:30, 25:31; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27; 1 Corinthians 15:43; 2 Thessalonians 1:9

[[second great] resurrection [of the wicked, unjust, damnation, at the end/close of the 1000 years, when Christ Jesus and all of the Saints [then immortal] descend to Earth in New Jerusalem upon the Mount of Olives, and the Great White Throne Judgment takes place; Zechariah 14; Revelation 20]] John 5:29b; Acts 17:31, 24:15b; Revelation 20:5a

[resurrection of unjust/damnation takes place on earth] Revelation 20:5,7-15

[2nd death - annihilation] Psalms 9:17; Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; James 3:6; Revelation 2:11, 20:6,14, 21:8

[the serpent/devil/satan/dragon said, “Ye shall not surely die...”] Genesis 3:4; and

[God said “Ye shall surely die...”] Genesis 2:17, 27:4; Proverbs 19:16; Ezekiel 3:19, 18:4,20, 33:9; James 5:20; Revelation 16:3; and

[God strictly warned and forbade necromancy, communication with the ‘dead’, even spiritually, ‘old man of sin’] Exodus 22:18, Deuteronomy 18:9-12; Isaiah 8:19; Luke 24:5;

[Episode of Saul and the woman of Endor] 1 Samuel 28:7-25, 31:1-12; 2 Samuel 1:1-24; 1 Chronicles 10:1-13

[Jesus is the resurrection and the life] John 11:25

[man is mortal, mortality] Genesis 2:17; Job 4:17; Romans 6:12, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:53,54; 2 Corinthians 4:11, 5:4

[dust, clay] Genesis 1:24,25, 2:7,19, 3:14,19, 18:27; Job 4:19, 7:21, 10:9, 13:12, 17:16, 20:11, 21:26, 30:19, 33:6, 34:15, 40:13; Psalms 22:15,29, 30:9, 103:14, 104:29; Ecclesiastes 3:20, 12:7; Isaiah 26:19, 29:16, 41:25, 45:9, 64:8; Jeremiah 18:4,6; Lamentations 4:2; Daniel 12:2; Malachi 4:3; John 9:6,11,14,15; Romans 9:21; 2 Corinthians 4:7; 2 Peter 2:6

[God alone is inherently immortal] 1 Timothy 1:17, 6:14-16

[God alone has inherent unborrowed life, original, eternal] John 1:4

[mankind is created as “dust” + “breath of life” of God, neither of which we own, and is no different in that respect than the beasts, thus in the first death; returning to dust which we are, “breath of life” of God returns to God, for it is His, not ours] Genesis 2:7, 6:17; Job 34:14,15; Psalms 104:29; Ecclesiastes 8:8, 12:7; Acts 17:25

[Jesus, Himself says that the first death = “sleepeth”] Matthew 9:24; Mark 5:39; Luke 8:52; John 11:11

[God raises the dead] John 2:19, 6:39,44,54; Acts 26:8; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 2 Corinthians 4:14; Hebrews 11:19
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#12
What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?
[Cases of Translation (Taken alive without experiencing death) in Scripture to consider]

OT:
[01.] Enoch - Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5​
[02.] Elijah - 2 Kings 2:1-12;​

NT:

[03.] Final Harvest - 1 Thessalonians 4:15,17​
[Cases of Resurrections in Scripture to consider] 1 Samuel 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Psalms 16:10; Hosea 13:14; Matthew 22:23,28,30,31, 27:52,53; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:27,33,35,36; John 5:29, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 2:27,31, 4:2,33, 17:31,32, 23:6,8, 24:15,21; Romans 1:4, 6:5,8; 1 Corinthians 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Ephesians 1:20, 4:8; Philippians 3:10,11; Colossians 3:3; 2 Timothy 2:18, 4:1; Hebrews 6:2, 11:35; 1 Peter 1:3, 3:21; Revelation 1:5,18, 20:5,6,13​

OT:

[01.] Moses by The Son of God (aka Jesus/Michael, the eternal uncreated and Highest Angel (Messenger) of the LORD (Father) - Numbers 20:8-12, 27:13, 31:2; Deuteronomy 4:21-22, 31:2,14,16, 32:51-52, 34:1-8; 1 Samuel 2:6; Matthew 22:32; John 11:25-26; Matthew 17:1-12; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36; 2 Peter 1:16; Romans 5:14; Jude 1:9​
[02.] Widow of Zarephath's Son by Elijah - 1 Kings 17:17-24; Hebrews 11:35​
[03.] Shunamite Woman's Son by Elijah - 2 Kings 4:18-37; Hebrews 11:35​
[04.] A man touching Elisha's bones - 2 Kings 13:20-21​
[05.] Valley of the Dry Bones (Raised Army) by Ezekiel (natural and spiritual applications; 1 Corinthians 15:46) - Ezekiel 37:1-14;​

NT:

[06.] Widow of Nain's Son by Jesus - Luke 7:11-17; Hebrews 11:35​
[07.] Jairus' Daughter by Jesus - Matthew 9:18,19,23-26; Mark 5:22-24,35-43; Luke 8:41-42,49-56; Hebrews 11:35​
[08.] Lazarus by Jesus - John 11:1-47; Hebrews 11:35​
[09.] Jesus by the Father in Heaven, Himself (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost/Spirit; (JEHOVAH Elohiym) Colossians 2:12; 1 Peter 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:14; Acts 2:24, 3:15, 13:33; Hebrews 13:20; (JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days (The Father)) Acts 4:10; Ephesians 1:20; Romans 6:4; Galatians 1:1; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; (Jesus JEHOVAH; The Son of the Father) John 2:19, 10:18; (The Holy Spirit/Ghost of JEHOVAH) Romans 8:11; 1 Peter 3:18; See also: Matthew 28:1-20; Mark 16:1-20; Luke 24:1-53; John 20:1-31; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23, &c;​
[10.] Firstfruits/Wavesheaf at the time of Jesus' Resurrection around Jerusalem by JEHOVAH Elohiym - Matthew 27:50-53, 28:1-4; Isaiah 26:19; (for Jesus, see also Psalms 40:6; Hebrews 10:5; Galatians 4:4); Psalms 68:8,17-21 (vs 21., see Genesis 3:15); compare Psalms 68:18 to Ephesians 4:8-10; Compare Leviticus 23:9-14; 15-22 (Firstfruits) to 1 Corinthians 15:21-23. See also Psalms 24:1-10 (Triumphal Entry with Victory Train into New Jerusalem above), with Psalms 98:1-3; Colossians 2:15. See also Acts 1.​
[11.] Tabitha/Dorcas by Peter - Acts 9:36-42​
[12.] Eutychus by Paul - Acts 20:9-12.​
[13.] Special Harvest - Daniel 12:2,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13, &c;​
[14.] The Righteous (Resurrection unto Eternal Life at the start of the 1,000 Years of Revelation 20:1-7; Isaiah 24:22) – 1 Samuel 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Hosea 13:14; Matthew 22:31; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:35,36; John 5:29a, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 4:2, 17:31,32, 23:6, 24:15a,21; Romans 6:5,8, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Philippians 3:10,11; Colossians 3:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Timothy 2:18, 4:1; Hebrews 6:2, 11:35; Revelation 20:5b,6; -- All the Holy "Clouds" of Angels, the "reapers", with Him -- Psalms 68:17, 104:3; Isaiah 66:15; Matthew 13:39,49, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31,51, 26:64; Mark 8:38, 13:27; Luke 9:26, 21:27; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:16-17; Hebrews 1:7; Revelation 1:7, 12:7​
[15.] The Wicked (finally impenitent; Resurrection unto Damnation, 2nd Death at the close of the 1,000 Years of Revelation 20:1-7; Isaiah 24:22) - John 5:29b; Acts 17:31, 24:15b; Revelation 20:5a; (2nd Death; Genesis 2:17; Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 25:8, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Malachi 4:1; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Jude 1:12; Revelation 2:1; 7:17, 20:6,9,14, 21:4,8);​

NT: (Special Cases for consideration):

[16.] The "Two Witnesses" (not actually persons, they are symbols of the "Law" and the "Testimony" (word of God), see Acts 10:43; Romans 3:21; Deuteronomy 31:26; Matthew 24:14; tie to "Moses" - Exodus 4:9, 7:19,21, 9:14; Deuteronomy 11:17, tie to "Elijah" - 1 Kings 8:35; 2 Chronicles 6:26, 7:13 (see also 1 Kings 17:1,14-15, 8:1,41,44-45), see also Luke 4:25; James 5:17; tie to "truth fallen in the street" - Isaiah 59:14 (see also, for "street", Nehemiah 8:1,3; Job 29:7; Daniel 9:25; see also for "truth", Psalms 119:142,151; John 14:6, 15:26, 16:13; 1 John 5:6; Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalms 25:10); tie to "light", "candlestick" - Psalms 119:105; Isaiah 8:20; 2 Peter 1:19; tie to "the word of the LORD", "my spirit" - Zechariah 4:6; see also Revelation 1:2,9, 6:9, 12;17, 20:4; Deuteronomy 4:2, Revelation 14:7,12; Exodus 20:11; Isaiah 1:10; 2 Kings 17:13; Psalms 19:7, 78:5; Proverbs 29:18; Isaiah 8:16,20; Lamentations 2:9; Ezekiel 7:26; Matthew 22:40; Romans 3:21; Revelation 1:10, &c.) - Revelation 11:3-12.​
[17.] Paul (not actually resurrected, merely injured and helped up) - Acts 14:19-20; 2 Corinthians 11:25, 12:1-7.​
[18.] Anti Christos (koine Greek) (Vicarivs Christi (Latin); Beast of the Sea; Son of Perdition; Man of Sin; receives a 'deadly wound' (Government/State Authority with execution powers is stripped from it), and later is healed (Government/State Authority with execution powers are returned to it; it counterfeits Christ Jesus; this is not an individual person, but a system, a Church/State entity*) - Revelation 13:3,12; Daniel 11:40.​

There are many other verses to consider on resurrection in general, such as Matthew 11:5; Luke 7:22, Romans 8:11; &c; and other related verses, such as Matthew 8:22; Luke 9:60, &c.

There are many verses which speak about ‘spiritual resurrection (life) of heart/mind/spirit’, such as, Romans 11:15, 13:11; 1 Corinthians 15:34; 2 Corinthians 1:9, 5:14; Ephesians 2:1,5, 5:14; Colossians 2:12,13,20, 3:1,3; 1 Timothy 5:6; Hebrews 6:1, 9:14; James 2:17,26; 1 Peter 2:24, etc.

Immortal Soul/Spirit theology is very dangerous to the Everlasting Gospel for (natural to spiritual) if men who die, yet live somehow, then the old man of sin, does not ever really die either, is immortalized by the wicked spiritualistic theology of the devil, ‘Ye shall not surely die.’

 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#13
What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?
QUESTION: WHAT DOES THE WORD “HELL” MEAN, OR WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF “HELL”?

The Bible’s use of the word “hell” (54 times, KJB), translated from Hebrew & koine Greek, in general mean “pit”, “grave” or ‘place of outer darkness, or away from a source of light’:

[1] Hebrew “sheol” (H7586) - (65 times)
[A.] (31 times, “hell”) Deuteronomy 32:22; 2 Samuel 22:6; Job 11:8, 26:6; Psalms 9:17, 16:10, 18:5, 55:15, 86:13, 116:3, 139:8; Proverbs 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11,24, 23:14, 27:20; Isaiah 5:14, 14:9, 28:15 (2),18, 57:9; Ezekiel 31:16-17 (2), 32:21,27; Jonah 2:2 (2); Habakkuk 2:5;​
[B.] (30 times, “grave”) Genesis 37:35, 42:38, 44:29,31; 1 Kings 2:6 (2),9; Job 7:9, 21:13 (3), 24:19; Psalms 6:5, 30:3, 31:17, 49:14-15 (3), 88:3, 89:48; Proverbs 1:12, 30:16; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Song of Solomon 8:6; Isaiah 14:11, 38:10,18; Ezekiel 31:15; Hosea 13:14 (2);​
[C.] (3 times, “pit”) Numbers 16:30,33; Job 17:16;​
[D.] (1 times, “grave's”) Psalms 141:7​
[2] Greek “Hades” (G86) - (11 times)
[A.] (10 times, “hell”) Matthew 11:23, 16:18; Luke 10:15, 16:23; Acts 2:27,31; Revelation 1:18, 6:8, 20:13-14 (2);​
[B.] (1 times, “grave”) 1 Corinthians 15:55​
[3] Greek “Gehenna” (G1067) - (12 times, “hell”) Matthew 5:22, 29-30 (2), 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; James 3:5-6 (2)​
[4] Greek “Tartaroo” (G5020) - (1 times, “hell”) 2 Peter 2:4, “ταρταρωσας”, a place of “outer darkness” (see also Matthew 8:12, 22:13, 25:30). The fallen angels, were “cast out” (Revelation 12:9) of Heaven, where all is light and glory (Revelation 21:23, 22:5), into the darkness between worlds (Hebrews 1:2, 11:3), what we call 'outer space', before satan came to the just newly created earth (Eze. 28:16-17; Luke 10:18; Jude 1:6), seeking allies in his continuing rebellion.​
The Bible’s parallelism in either Hebrew or koine Greek, or English (KJB), shows us that the word, “hell” simply means “pit”, “grave”, a place of covering, and no light.​
[A.] Isa_14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.​
[B.] Eze_31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.​
[C.] Psa_30:3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.​
[D.] Pro_1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:​
[E.] Isa_14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.​
[F.] Isa_38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.​
[G.] Eze_32:23 Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.​
[H.] Eze_32:24 There is Elam and all her multitude round about her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which are gone down uncircumcised into the nether parts of the earth, which caused their terror in the land of the living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit.​
[I.] Act_2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (see Psalms 16:10)
Act_2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.​
[J.] Psa 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.​
Psa 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.​
Psa 49:17 For when he dieth he shall carry nothing away: his glory shall not descend after him.​
Psa 49:19 He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light.​
QUESTION: ISN’T THE WORD “HELL” ASSOCIATED WITH “FIRE”, AND NOT JUST “GRAVE”, “PIT” OR “DARKNESS”?

Yes, it is, but the two words “hell” and “fire” are separate and distinct things. The fire was already kindled by God, since the Noachian Flood (a type of the end-time final destruction; 2 Peter 3:6-8; Matthew 24:37-38; Luke 17:26), as the earth was broken up, and massive amounts of debris was buried in and under the nether parts of the earth (Job 26:5-6), and turned to ‘gas’, ‘coal’, ‘oil’ over time, and the friction of great weight of the plates of the earth, causing those things to heat, burn and explode (it’s where earthquakes, tsunami’s, volcanoes come from), is still burning to this day, and will be used to bring about the final destruction of satan, his fallen angels and all the finally impenitent (unrepentant), wicked.

[A.] Deu_32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.​
[B.] Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (see also Matthew 5:22, 18:9; Mark 9:43,45,47; James 3:6)
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#14
What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?
DEFINITIONS AND ETYMOLOGY (WORD ORIGINS) OF THE WORDS “HELL” AND “HELLING”:

ETYMOLOGY ONLINE:

[A.] “also Hell, Old English hel, helle, "nether world, abode of the dead, infernal regions, place of torment for the wicked after death," from Proto-Germanic *haljō "the underworld" (source also of Old Frisian helle, Old Saxon hellia, Dutch hel, Old Norse hel, German Hölle, Gothic halja "hell"). Literally "concealed place" (compare Old Norse hellir "cave, cavern"), from PIE root *kel- (1) "to cover, conceal, save.​
Old Norse Hel (from Proto-Germanic *halija "one who covers up or hides something" ... Used in the KJV for Old Testament Hebrew Sheol and New Testament Greek Hades, Gehenna. ...” - https://www.etymonline.com/word/hell
[B.] "*kel- (1)​
Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to cover, conceal, save."​
It forms all or part of: Anselm; apocalypse; Brussels; caliology; Calypso; calyx; ceiling; cell; cellar; cellular; cellulite; cellulitis; cilia; clandestine; cojones; coleoptera; color; conceal; eucalyptus; hall; hell; helm (n.2) "a helmet;" helmet; hold (n.2) "space in a ship below the lower deck;" hole; hollow; holster; housing (n.2) "ornamental covering;" hull (n.1) "seed covering;" kil-; kleptomania; occult; rathskeller; supercilious; Valhalla; William.​
It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Sanskrit cala "hut, house, hall;" Greek kalia "hut, nest," kalyptein "to cover," koleon, koleos "sheath," kelyphos "shell, husk;" Latin cella "small room, store room, hut," celare "to hide, conceal," clam "secret," clepere "to steal, listen secretly to;" Old Irish cuile "cellar," celim "hide," Middle Irish cul "defense, shelter;" Gothic hulistr "covering," Old English heolstor "lurking-hole, cave, covering," Gothic huljan "to cover over," hulundi "hole," hilms "helmet," halja "hell," Old English hol "cave," holu "husk, pod;" Old Prussian au-klipts "hidden;" Old Church Slavonic poklopu "cover, wrapping."" - - https://www.etymonline.com/word/hell

WEBSTER’S 1828 DICTIONARY ONLINE:

"... HELL, noun​
1. The place or state of punishment for the wicked after death. Matthew 10:28. Luke 12:5. ... 2. The place of the dead, or of souls after death; the lower regions, or the grave; called in Hebrew, sheol, and by the Greeks, hades. Psalms 16:10. Jonah 2:2. ..." - https://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/hell

WORD USAGE:

[A.] "Roofs were usually covered with helling stones or slates from Cornwall. Some came from St. Dominick and Menhenniot, but the origin of most is unstated. Some of the helling stones for Plympton grammar school came from Cann quarry which is north of Plym bridge, but these may have been of an inferior quality." - Devon and Cornwall Record Society, Volumes 12-14 (1967), page xiv. - https://books.google.as/books?id=h5BnAAAAMAAJ&dq="helling"&focus=searchwithinvolume&q="helling"
[B.] "The word "hell" replaced the Hebrew word "Sheol" and the Greek word "Hai'des". The Hebrew word "Sheol" is the common grave of mankind, not a fiery place of torture. The archaic English word "hell" was used as a replacement for "Sheol" and at the time, the word meant "to put under the ground" as in "helling potatoes" (Colliers Encyclopedia 1986 Volume 12, page 28) (Vine's Expository Dictionary Old and New Testament Words, 1981 Volume 2, page 187)." - God is Great: Bible Rebuttal to Christopher Hitchens by Peter James, page 63 - https://books.google.as/books?id=4l...AgIEAI#v=onepage&q="helling" potatoes&f=false
[C.] "... The English word "hell" was a word that the translators picked to express an idea or condition of the Hebrew word "sheol" or Greek words "hades", "gehenna", or "tartaroo", and sometimes instead of using the word "hell", they would use the word "grave" or "pit". One of the most interesting aspects of the word "hell"is that in the old English usage, it also meant "to conceal" or "to hide" or "to cover". Old English literature sometimes mentions the "helling of onions" or potatoes, and even tells of the "helling of a house", by covering it with thatch or wooden shingles." - Satan's Secret: Exposing the Master of Deception and the Father of Lies by D. A. Teunis, page 181 - https://books.google.as/books?id=v-...AF6BAgIEAI#v=onepage&q=helling onions&f=false
[D.] “That place is a real ‘hell-hole’, as it is without light, or joy, being dark and hidden away.”​
[E.] “Cover your head! Put on that Hel-met (helmet, literally a ‘hell met’, or head covering’).​
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#15
Yes Soul Sleep is indeed a false doctrine. There are no souls sleeping six feet under the soil. Upon death, the body goes into the grave (and may give the appearance of repose or sleep). But the soul and spirit are either in Heaven
You are greatly mistaken, and what you teach destroys the Gospel itself (sadly, see previous video).

Job_20:11 His bones are full of the sin of his youth, which shall lie down with him in the dust.

[1] "bones" (body)
[2] "with him" (person)

Both go to the grave.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

Mankind was made of:

[1] "the dust of the ground"
+ ("and")​
[2] "the breath of life (of God)"
= ("became", not hath, not bequeathed, not given)​
[3] "a living soul" (and the word “soul” (H5315, G5590; Leviticus 22:11; Hebrews 4:12) is a “life” (Genesis 9:5; Matthew 6:25; Luke 9:56; Acts 15:26, 27:10; 1 John 3:16; Revelation 12:11, &c.), “person/s” (Genesis 14:21; Numbers 5:6, &c.), “creature” (Genesis 1:21,24; Leviticus 11:46, &c.), or “beast” (Leviticus 24:18). It can also be defined as a “being”.)​
Wait, what about?

Ecc_12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.​

Thus, mankind which is nothing but "dust" being filled with the breath of life of God, His spirit, when we die, simply return to "dust", and God takes back His breath (spirit) of life, which he lent to us (Proverbs 22:7; Acts 17:25; Ecclesiastes 8:8). There is no immortal 'us' that returns to Heaven. The only way to Heaven now, is found in John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:35-58; Job 14:6-22.

Ecc_8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.​

The very teaching of immortal soul/spirit theology, in direct contrast to God's word (Genesis 2:17; Ezekiel 18:4,20), and in favour of satan's word (Genesis 3:4), teaches that the old man of sin (Romans 6:6), the wicked spirit, the evil mind, the rebellious heart, cannot ever die, and always lives, for they redefine what death means, to make it mean not death, but life. There is a great "woe" upon them.

Historically, 'soul sleep' is the Christian doctrine:


Like Luther who believed the person sleeps in death until their resurrection at the return of Jesus:

Others included Camillo Renato (1540)[109] Mátyás Dévai Bíró (1500–1545)[110] Michael Servetus (1511–1553)[111] Laelio Sozzini (1562)[112] Fausto Sozzini (1563)[113] the Polish Brethren (1565 onwards)[114] Dirk Philips (1504–1568)[115] Gregory Paul of Brzezin (1568)[116] the Socinians (1570–1800)[117] John Frith (1573)[118] George Schomann (1574)[119] Simon Budny (1576)[113]​

Like Milton:

Those holding this view include: 1600s: Sussex Baptists[126] d. 1612: Edward Wightman[127] 1627: Samuel Gardner[128] 1628: Samuel Przypkowski[129] 1636: George Wither[130] 1637: Joachim Stegmann[131] 1624: Richard Overton[90] 1654: John Biddle (Unitarian)[132] 1655: Matthew Caffyn[133] 1658: Samuel Richardson[134] 1608–1674: John Milton[135][136] 1588–1670: Thomas Hobbes[117] 1605–1682: Thomas Browne[137] 1622–1705: Henry Layton[138] 1702: William Coward[138] 1632–1704: John Locke[139] 1643–1727: Isaac Newton[140] 1676–1748: Pietro Giannone[141] 1751: William Kenrick[142] 1755: Edmund Law[143] 1759: Samuel Bourn[144] 1723–1791: Richard Price[145] 1718–1797: Peter Peckard[146] 1733–1804: Joseph Priestley[147] Francis Blackburne (1765)[148] (1765).​

19th-20th century:

Others include: Millerites (from 1833),[154] Edward White (1846),[155] Christadelphians (from 1848),[156] Thomas Thayer (1855),[157] François Gaussen (d.1863),[158] Henry Constable (1873),[159] Louis Burnier (Waldensian, d.1878),[160] the Baptist Conditionalist Association (1878),[161] Cameron Mann (1888),[162] Emmanuel Pétavel-Olliff (1891), Miles Grant (1895)[163] George Gabriel Stokes (1897),[155]​

The Blackwell Encyclopedia of Modern Christian Thought (1995), says "There is no concept of an immortal soul in the Old Testament, nor does the New Testament ever call the human soul immortal.",[190] Harper's Bible Dictionary (1st ed. 1985), says that 'For a Hebrew, ‘soul’ indicated the unity of a human person; Hebrews were living bodies, they did not have bodies",[191] the New Bible Dictionary’ (3rd. ed. 1996), says "But to the Bible man is not a soul in a body but a body/soul unity",[192] the Encyclopedia of Judaism’ (2000), says "Scripture does not present even a rudimentarily developed theology of the soul",[193] the New Dictionary of Theology’ (2000), and "The notion of the soul as an independent force that animates human life but that can exist apart from the human body—either prior to conception and birth or subsequent to life and death—is the product only of later Judaism",[188] Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible (2000), says "Far from referring simply to one aspect of a person, “soul” refers to the whole person",[194] the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says "Possibly Jn. 6:33 also includes an allusion to the general life-giving function. This teaching rules out all ideas of an emanation of the soul.",[195] and "The soul and the body belong together, so that without either the one or the other there is no true man",[196] Eerdmans Bible Dictionary (1987), says "Indeed, the salvation of the “immortal soul” has sometimes been a commonplace in preaching, but it is fundamentally unbiblical.",[197] the Encyclopedia of Christianity (2003), says "The Hebrew Bible does not present the human soul (nepeš) or spirit (rûah) as an immortal substance, and for the most part it envisions the dead as ghosts in Sheol, the dark, sleepy underworld",[198] The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (2005), says "there is practically no specific teaching on the subject in the Bible beyond an underlying assumption of some form of afterlife (see immortality)",[199] and the Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible (rev. ed. 2009), says "It is this essential soul-body oneness that provides the uniqueness of the biblical concept of the resurrection of the body as distinguished from the Greek idea of the immortality of the soul".[200][201]​

The mortalist disbelief in the existence of a naturally immortal soul,[1][5] is also affirmed as biblical teaching by various modern theologians,[202][203][204][205][206][207][208][209][210]- https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/11538103
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#16
Yes Soul Sleep is indeed a false doctrine. There are no souls sleeping six feet under the soil. Upon death, the body goes into the grave (and may give the appearance of repose or sleep). But the soul and spirit are either in Heaven
That is not what the historic Christian faith taught:

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.​
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,​
Act_13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:​
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.​
Historic documentation:

Annihilation and Soul Sleep Historical Sources (Baptists, Methodists, Syrians, Arabians, Reformers (Martin Luther, William Tyndale, &c) - https://archive.org/details/state-of-the-dead-annihilation-hellfire-non-sda-quotes
The Soul Sleepers - Chapter 4 The Major Seventeenth Century Advocates - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...ter-4-the-major-seventeenth-century-advocates
Emmanuel Petavel Olliff - The Problem Of Immortality - https://archive.org/details/doctrine-emmanuel-petavel-olliff-the-problem-of-immortality
Charles L Ives - The Bible Doctrine Of The Soul An Answer To The Question - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...octrine-of-the-soul-an-answer-to-the-question
A Debate On The State Of The Dead - Nathaniel Field Vs Thomas P Connelly - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...the-dead-nathaniel-field-vs-thomas-p-connelly
Henry Grew (Baptist) - State Of The Dead &c Owned By Joseph Frisbie, With His Personal Markings - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...-by-joseph-frisbie-with-his-personal-markings
Stephen Bohr - Secrets Unsealed - State Of The Dead & Hellfire Sermons - https://archive.org/details/immorta...dead-pr.-stephen-bohr-state-of-the-dead-3-abn
Christian Mortalism From Tyndale To Milton By Norman T. Burns - https://archive.org/details/christian-mortalism-from-tyndale-to-milton-by-norman-t.-burns-z-lib.org
William Tyndale - Tyndales Answer To Sir Thomas More - https://archive.org/details/doctrine-william-tyndale-tyndales-answer-to-sir-thomas-more
Vladimir Baranozv - Sleep Of The Soul [18177565 Scrinium] “Angels In The Guise Of Saints” A Syrian Tradition In Constantinople - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...-the-soul-18177565-scrinium-angels-in-the-gui
Glenn A Peoples - Soul Sleep - Rethinking Hell Chapter 2 - https://archive.org/details/doctrine-glenn-a-peoples-soul-sleep-rethinking-hell-chapter-2
Dirk Krausmuller - Soul Sleep - [18177565 Scrinium] Christian Platonism And The Debate About Afterlife - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...p-18177565-scrinium-christian-platonism-and-t
Christopher M Date - Soul Sleep - 18. MJTM. 69 92 Date - https://archive.org/details/doctrine-christopher-m-date-soul-sleep-18.-mjtm.-69-92-date
Richard Whately - A View Of The Scripture Revelations Concerning A Future State - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...ripture-revelations-concerning-a-future-state
H H Dobney & John Milton - The Scripture Doctrine Of Future Punishment An Argument - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...ure-doctrine-of-future-punishment-an-argument
George Storrs - An Inquiry Are The Wicked Immortal In Six Sermons Also Have The Dead Knowledge Which Is Prefixed An Extract On The Second Death By Archbishop Whately - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...re-the-wicked-immortal-in-six-sermons-also-ha
D M Canright - A History Of The Doctrine Of The Soul Among All Races And Peoples, Ancient And Modern...; Carefully Brought Down To The Present Time - https://archive.org/details/sda-d-m...octrine-of-the-soul-among-all-races-and-peopl
F. Gavin - The Sleep Of The Soul In The Early Syriac Church - https://archive.org/details/doctrine-f.-gavin-the-sleep-of-the-soul-in-the-early-syriad-church
Bryan W. Ball - Sixteenth Century Continental Conditionalists - https://archive.org/details/doctrine-bryan-w.-ball-sixteenth-century-continental-conditionalists
Aphrahat By J. Edward Walters - Sleep Of The Soul And Resurrection Of The Body - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...leep-of-the-soul-and-resurrection-of-the-body
Hell & Mr Fudge - Edward Fudge - https://archive.org/details/hell-mr-fudge
LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 02 - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...conditionalist-faith-of-our-fathers-volume-02
LeRoy Edwin Froom - The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 01 - https://archive.org/details/doctrin...conditionalist-faith-of-our-fathers-volume-01
Secrets Unsealed - Stephen Bohr - Misunderstood Texts On The State Of The Dead - https://archive.org/details/secrets...-misunderstood-texts-on-the-state-of-the-dead
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#17
When Christ died His body was placed in a tomb but His soul and spirit went to Hades for three days and three nights. He preached unto the spirits in prison at that time.
No, He didn't.

Mat_28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.​

It was foretold:

Job_21:32 Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.​

Read also [1 Pt 3:8-14]

"But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy [are ye]: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;" [1 Pt 3:14]

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" [1 Pt 3:15]

"Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ." [1 Pt 3:16]

"For [it is] better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing." [1 Pt 3:17]

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" [1 Pt 3:18]

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" [1 Pt 3:19]

"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." [1 Pt 3:20]

"The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" [1 Pt 3:21]

"Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." [1 Pt 3:22]​

What do these texts mean?

Peter ends this section by saying, "Finally brethren,..." after speaking about the inward man and not the outward vain adorning, but rather of the chaste and holy conduct of the Christian, especially that which is between man [husband] and wife [vs 1-7].

Peter then goes into a section on this Christian love for one another, to be manifested and witnessed throughout whole Christian body of Christ [vs 8-17].

He finally then sums this all up in Christ Jesus as being the perfect model and example of this love, and re-connects that with the exhortation he previously spoke about in the earlier verses [vs 1-17] with the very example of the days of Noah and the Salvation and Judgment seen there. Peter is giving an example of the very thing that Jesus prophesied about:

"But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." [Mt 24:37] see also Mt 24:38; Lk 17:2627

People in Noah's day rioted, and did whatever they pleased, and took whom they wanted, etc [as the beginning of this article shows]. Noah, who "was perfect in his generations" and "walked with god" [Gn 6:9;p], preached unto them about "righteousness" [2 Pt 2:5], but most of the rest of the world mocked and railed at him, like as others also unto the other prophets [2 Chr 36:16; Job 12:4; Mk 12, etc]. So Noah "suffer[ed] for righteousness sake", but was unafraid of their "terror" and of their "speak[ing] evil" of him as an "evil doer", but rather he "found grace in the eyes of the Lord" [Gn 6:8;p] and "sanctif[ied] the Lord God [in his] heart" and so "suffer[ed] for well doing" while believing God about the coming Judgment of the Flood [Gn 6:17] which would take everyone away in destruction and thus it was "accounted unto him for righteousnesss" for so acting upon that Faith [Jm 2].

So then what do the remaining verses of 1 Ptr 3:18-22 actually mean?

The passage is not saying that CHRIST JESUS, while deceased and in the tomb [where "the LORD lay" [Mt 28:6]], then incorporeally went and preached a sermon to "spirits" [the common worldly defined form of an incorporeal immortal being, ie. 'ghosts of the deceased', etc].

JESUS was dead, having suffered the Death [the wages for sin, which was ours] for us all [though we too, our "old man" of "sin" [Rm 6:6;p] must die, and be "crucified with CHRIST" [Gal 2:20;p] and be "born again" [Jn 3:3,7; 1 Pt 1:23]], though HIS "Humanity died: divinity did not die" for GOD is "immortal" [1 Tm 1:17].
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#18
When Christ died His body was placed in a tomb but His soul and spirit went to Hades for three days and three nights. He preached unto the spirits in prison at that time.
So, the HOLY SPIRIT was already working in the "Days of Noah" upon the hearts and minds of men, as HE has throughout the scriptures [Gn 1:2; Nm 11:29; Job 26:13; Isa 48:16; Zec 7:12; 1 Cor 2:10; Eph 3:16; 1 Jn 4:13; etc]:

"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years." [Gn 6:3]​

So now, please notice what Peter is actually recounting of as it had happened in the "days of Noah":

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" [1 Pt 3:18]​

"Put to death in the flesh", and "quickend" ["made alive, to produce alive...to cause to live, make alive, give life...to restore life...springing up..."; Greek "zōopoieō" "ζῳοποιέω"; SC, TL, VE, ; "in other words, to make living that which was before dead/without life"] by the HOLY SPIRIT again ["not left in hell [grave]"] into Immortal and Uncorruptible Flesh [for HIS flesh never having seen corruption; Ex 16:5,22-36; Ps 16:10, 49:9; Acts 2:27,32, 13:35,37].

HE [JESUS] was "quickened BY the Spirit" [in this text, being Raised BY the HOLY SPIRIT; Rm 8:11] and was forever raised as an immortal man with "Flesh and Bones" [Lk 24:39] so that the disciples could "handle" HIM and that HE could "eat".

JESUS, who spake of the raising of the "Temple of HIS Body" [Jn 2:21; Rv 21:22], was Raised Bodily [Jn 2:19,21, 20:12; Lk 24:3,6,39,43, etc] unto Immortality as the type of the Uncorrupted Manna in the Wilderness foretold [Ex 16:5,22-25] and was not floating around somewhere in some "immortalized incorporeal form of man-shade" preaching to other "deceased conscious incorporeals". ...

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" [1 Pt 3:19]​

What is the "by which" this event ["went and preached"] was being done?

It is "by the SPIRIT" [being the HOLY SPIRIT], [vs 18].

Who then is the "HE" that was doing this ["went and preached"] by means of the HOLY SPIRIT?

It is JESUS ["CHRIST"], [vs 18], for JESUS was preaching through the HOLY SPIRIT whom HE had sent unto Noah to warn the world of the impending Judgment of GOD and for repentance. Remember Gn 6:3? To whom was Noah preaching to in those days then by the HOLY SPIRIT whom JESUS had sent? Deceased 'ghosts' or people who were very much alive and living in sin and rebellion towards GOD?

The text says that the HOLY SPIRIT strove with "man" who is "flesh":

"...My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh..." [Gn 6:3;p]​

Peter was using a comparison, of then [Noah's Day] and now [his [Peter's] day] and also the end of time] and was revealing that CHRIST JESUS through the HOLY SPIRIT in the "days of Noah" [not in the days of JESUS' death] was preaching the Gospel of Salvation [Gn 3:15, etc by Noah, the "preacher of righteousness"] to the living humans ["man"] that were then ["in the days of Noah"] "disobediant" to GOD.

The HOLY SPIRIT is the one who convicts of Sin, Judgment and Righteousness [Jn 16:8], which is why even King David prayed after he had sinned and was "disobedient" ["Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." [Ps 51:11]].
 
Oct 28, 2022
322
53
28
#19
When Christ died His body was placed in a tomb but His soul and spirit went to Hades for three days and three nights. He preached unto the spirits in prison at that time.
Who then are these "spirits in prison" [vs 19] that were being "preached" unto?

They were the living human beings [souls, living beings as defined by Gn 2:7 and throughout] who were in the bonds of iniquity, slaves of sin, bondage of disobedience and bound to Sin, Satan and Self [selfishness and also self-works to earn salvation] as the Bible so defines:

"...brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." [Ex 20:2], see also Dt 5:6. 6:12, 8:14, 13:10; Jud 6:8; Jos 24:17​

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn [you] away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." [Dt 13:5] [notice also that last part of the text]​

"O LORD, truly I [am] thy servant; I [am] thy servant, [and] the son of thine handmaid: thou hast loosed my bonds." [Ps 116:16]

"Bring my soul out of prison..." [P 142:7]

"To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, [and] them that sit in darkness out of the prison house." [Isa 42:7]

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound;" [Isa 61:1]

"The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised," [Lk 4:18]

"...whom Satan hath bound,... be loosed from this bond...?" [Lk 13:16]

"No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." [Lk 16:13]

"...Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." [Jn 8:34] [...is the slave of sin]

"...the bond of iniquity." [Acts 8:23]

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." [Rm 8:15]

"For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:" [Eph 5:8]

"And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." [Hb 2:15]

"While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage." [2 Ptr 2:19]​

Surely, those that JESUS HIMSELF himself preached to in HIS 3 1/2 year Ministry were not "deceased or departed, nor some immortal incorporeal", but were very much physically alive ["mortal man" [Job 4:17]; "Mortal Flesh" [2 Cor 4:11]] and held in the bondage to sin satan and self. Even as Paul hath said:

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" [Rm 6:16]​

Also speaking of "liberty" from "iniquity" the scriptures continue by saying:

"And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts." [Ps 119:45]

"They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? " [Jn 8:33]

"Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." [Jn 8:34]

"And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever." [Jn 8:35] [Paul uses this analogy in Galatians; those who are in bondage are sinners, refusing to submit to God and His righteousness]

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." [Jn 8:38]

"To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." [Acts 26:18]

"Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." [Rm 8:21]

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty." [2 Cor 3:17]

"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another." [Gal 5:13]

"But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." [Jm 1:25]

"...judged by the law of liberty." [Jm 2:12]

"As free, and not using [your] liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God." [1 Pt 2:16]

"While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage." [2 Pt 2:19]​

Looking further at the context and continuing onward:

"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." [1 Pt 3:20]​

Who are the "which"?

They are the "spirits in prison", [vs 19], which by the text themselves declare are living people in the bonds of sin and disobedience.

When was this preaching ["preached"] to these "spirits in prison" done according to the context?

It was actually done to those who were "...disobedient, when once the longsuffering of GOD waited in the days of Noah, while the Ark was a prepraring...". This was done many years before CHRIST JESUS was ever incarnated/born as a man, and therefore long before HIS crucifixion.

Thus the Gospel was also Preached "in the days of Noah" [for 120 years, Genesis 6:3]. The "disobedient" were the living disobedient and transgressing human beings who did not board the Ark, disbelieved the message of warning from GOD, but rather who continued to rebel and ignore the warnings that GOD [JESUS through the HOLY SPIRIT] had given through Noah ["preacher of Righteousness"].

It was not preached to angels, nor devils, nor immortal incorporeal forms, but rather it was preached to "man" [Gn 6:3,5-7], who was living "flesh" [Gn 6:12-13,17] [as we are living flesh], See also [Job 22:15-16].

Peter is likening that preachement done then ["the like figure"], to the preachment done now [1 Pt 3:21], and their "then" baptism ["wherein 8 souls were saved by water"] in "the days of Noah", and he [Peter] is comparing it to the Baptism now offered in CHRIST JESUS.

The HOLY SPIRIT worked to convict of Sin then [through the preaching and lives of Adam, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah], as HE does now [through Christians], but only 8 humans [living "souls"] were saved then, as no one else chose to repent, believe and obey and to get into the Ark [the only means of salvation] except Noah and his Family.

So Likewise today HE is convicting the whole world of "SIN, JUDGMENT and RIGHTEOUSNESS" [Jn 16:8] through the preaching of the Three Angels Messages and the "Everlasting Gospel" found in Rv 14:6-12. [As Noah was a "preacher of Righteousness" [2 Pt 2:5] See also [Ps 119:172], so now there is a remnant group of GOD's people Rv 14:12 proclaiming it over the whole world [Rv 14:6]...]

CHRIST JESUS says as it was "in the days of Noe" [Lk 17:26, see also Mt 24:37-39], so it will be.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,237
983
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#20
.
Sometime during his nautical adventure, Jonah went to a place called sheol
(Jonah 2:2) which is located at the roots of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6a)

Well; the roots of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, nor
are they located under the sea; rather, they're located deep underground in
solid tectonic rock. So, the only way that Jonah could possibly be at the
roots of the mountains while in the belly of a fish at the same time was for
the man and his body to part company and go their separate ways, viz:
Jonah wasn't alive for the whole time he was in the fish; at some point, he
was quite dead and Jonah 2:6b tells of his imminent putrefaction.

Now the question is: Did Jonah's underground situation consist of fire and
misery, or was it maybe a bit more pleasant than that of the rich man's
situation depicted in Luke 16:19-31?
_