If "Soul Sleep" Is Correct Doctrine?

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Nehemiah6

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#21
Now the question is: Did Jonah's underground situation consist of fire and misery, or was it maybe a bit more pleasant than that of the rich man's situation depicted in Luke 16:19-31?
Why would you even ask such a question? The righteous were separated from the unrighteous and were definitely not in fire and misery. That is why their section was called "Abraham's Bosom".
 

Webers.Home

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#22
.
Why would you even ask such a question?

According Ps 16:8-10, Matt 12:40, and Acts 2:25-32, Jesus spent some of
his three days and nights deceased in sheol; which in the New Testament is
identified by the Greek word haides (a.k.a. Hades)

In very old versions of the Bible-- e.g. the KJV and the Confraternity --
haides is commonly translated with the English word "hell" which is accurate
to some degree because it fits the rich man's circumstances in Luke 16:22-23.
However, haides encompasses the entire world of the dead; both the good
dead and the bad dead regardless of age, race, gender, and/or religious preference;
which means that Abraham and Lazarus were in haides too during the events of
that story.


That is why their section was called "Abraham's Bosom".

A man's bosom is that part of his body used for embracing, i.e. hugs. I
have no clue how people got in the habit of using a part of Abraham's body
to identify the geographic location where he and Lazarus were situated in
that story; but if you ask me, the practice is not only stupid but also misleading
because it's very probable the comfort that Abraham spoke of in Luke 16:25 had
to do with his arms around that poor slob assuring him the worst was over.
_
 

TMS

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#23
People can presume and say what it means in their minds, but the bible makes it clear.

Like many subjects 1 or 2 verses seem to contradict the other verses. Do we build a doctrine on the verses that seem to contradict the other clear verses or study the verses.

The bible doesn't contradict itself.

God is the author.
 

TMS

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#24
You seem to agree that Jesus did not go to heaven until after His resurrection.

So the verse can not mean "that day" Jesus would be in heaven with with the thief.

If the comma,,,, is in right place it all makes sense.

If the soul has life in and of itself. It is immortal.

Only God is immortal.

1Ti 6:15.....the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 6:16 Who only hath immortality,.....

The teaching that a soul lives forever is an evil doctrine of the devil.
 

Webers.Home

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#25
.
When Jesus died, he didn't go up, rather, he went down. (Matt 12:40, Ps
16:9-10, and Acts 2:25-31)

Paradise is structured such that its elements exist in more than one place.
For example: a city park system consists of any number of parks located in
any number of places, yet each individual park can still be correctly called a
city park.

For another example; the Pacific Crest Trail (a.k.a. PCT) traverses the
north/south length of three states-- California, Oregon, and Washington. No
matter where trekkers might be located on the trail at any given moment--
whether south at mile No.1 in Campo San Diego, or 2,140 trail-miles to the
north at Cascade Locks Oregon --they're all on the very same PCT regardless
of which State they happen to be passing thru.

Paradise is sort of like McDonalds too. There is only one McDonalds
Corporation but many franchises. No matter which franchise you happen to
dine in, it's all the same McDonalds Corporation whether in the USA, China,
Australia, Guam. Puerto Rico, etc.

I expect Paradise is sort of like those examples. There's a section of it in the
netherworld (Luke 16:19-31) another in a celestial region that Paul labeled
the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4) and yet another is located with God up in
very heaven itself. (Rev 2:7)
_
 

Webers.Home

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#26
.
The human soul is pretty rugged, but it isn't invincible. According to Matt
10:28, the body is perishable by just about any means, but the soul is
perishable only by the hand of God; i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't
necessarily simultaneous, viz: the soul lives on until such a time as God
decides to give it either a thumb up or a thumb down.
_
 

TheLearner

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#27
Genesis 37
Christian Standard Bible
Joseph’s Dreams
37 Jacob lived in the land where his father had stayed, the land of Canaan. 2 These are the family records of Jacob.

At seventeen years of age, Joseph tended sheep with his brothers. The young man was working with the sons of Bilhah and Zilpah, his father’s wives, and he brought a bad report about them to their father.

3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than his other sons because Joseph was a son born to him in his old age, and he made a long-sleeved robe[a] for him. 4 When his brothers saw that their father loved him more than all his brothers, they hated him and could not bring themselves to speak peaceably to him.

5 Then Joseph had a dream. When he told it to his brothers, they hated him even more. 6 He said to them, “Listen to this dream I had: 7 There we were, binding sheaves of grain in the field. Suddenly my sheaf stood up, and your sheaves gathered around it and bowed down to my sheaf.”

8 “Are you really going to reign over us?” his brothers asked him. “Are you really going to rule us?” So they hated him even more because of his dream and what he had said.

9 Then he had another dream and told it to his brothers. “Look,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun, moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”

10 He told his father and brothers, and his father rebuked him. “What kind of dream is this that you have had?” he said. “Am I and your mother and your brothers really going to come and bow down to the ground before you?” 11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind.

Joseph Sold into Slavery
12 His brothers had gone to pasture their father’s flocks at Shechem. 13 Israel said to Joseph, “Your brothers, you know, are pasturing the flocks at Shechem. Get ready. I’m sending you to them.”

“I’m ready,” Joseph replied.

14 Then Israel said to him, “Go and see how your brothers and the flocks are doing, and bring word back to me.” So he sent him from the Hebron Valley, and he went to Shechem.

15 A man found him there, wandering in the field, and asked him, “What are you looking for?”

16 “I’m looking for my brothers,” Joseph said. “Can you tell me where they are pasturing their flocks?”

17 “They’ve moved on from here,” the man said. “I heard them say, ‘Let’s go to Dothan.’” So Joseph set out after his brothers and found them at Dothan.

18 They saw him in the distance, and before he had reached them, they plotted to kill him. 19 They said to one another, “Oh, look, here comes that dream expert! 20 So now, come on, let’s kill him and throw him into one of the pits.[c] We can say that a vicious animal ate him. Then we’ll see what becomes of his dreams!”

21 When Reuben heard this, he tried to save him from them.[d] He said, “Let’s not take his life.” 22 Reuben also said to them, “Don’t shed blood. Throw him into this pit in the wilderness, but don’t lay a hand on him”—intending to rescue him from them and return him to his father.

23 When Joseph came to his brothers, they stripped off Joseph’s robe, the long-sleeved robe that he had on. 24 Then they took him and threw him into the pit. The pit was empty, without water.

25 They sat down to eat a meal, and when they looked up, there was a caravan of Ishmaelites coming from Gilead. Their camels were carrying aromatic gum, balsam, and resin, going down to Egypt.

26 Judah said to his brothers, “What do we gain if we kill our brother and cover up his blood? 27 Come on, let’s sell him to the Ishmaelites and not lay a hand on him, for he is our brother, our own flesh,” and his brothers agreed. 28 When Midianite traders passed by, his brothers pulled Joseph out of the pit and sold him for twenty pieces of silver to the Ishmaelites, who took Joseph to Egypt.

29 When Reuben returned to the pit and saw that Joseph was not there, he tore his clothes. 30 He went back to his brothers and said, “The boy is gone! What am I going to do?” [e] 31 So they took Joseph’s robe, slaughtered a male goat, and dipped the robe in its blood. 32 They sent the long-sleeved robe to their father and said, “We found this. Examine it. Is it your son’s robe or not?”

33 His father recognized it. “It is my son’s robe,” he said. “A vicious animal has devoured him. Joseph has been torn to pieces!” 34 Then Jacob tore his clothes, put sackcloth around his waist, and mourned for his son many days. 35 All his sons and daughters tried to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. “No,” he said. “I will go down to Sheol to my son, mourning.” And his father wept for him.


36 Meanwhile, the Midianites sold Joseph in Egypt to Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh and the captain of the guards.
 

TheLearner

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#28
Ezekiel 26
Evangelical Heritage Version
An Oracle Against Tyre
26 In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month,[a] the word of the Lord came to me.

2 Son of man, because Tyre said about Jerusalem, “Aha! The gateway to the peoples has been broken. It has been turned over to me. Because of her devastation, I will achieve my goal,” 3 this is what the Lord God says.

I am against you, Tyre, and I will send many nations against you, as the sea sends up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers. I will scrape away even the dust off her and make her a bare rock. 5 In the middle of the sea, she will become nothing but a place where fishing nets are spread out to dry, for I have spoken it, says the Lord God. She will become plunder for the nations, 6 and her daughters on the mainland will be slain by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord.

7 So this is what the Lord God says. I am bringing against Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon and king of kings, together with horses, chariots, horsemen, and a vast array of troops from many nations. 8 Your daughters on the mainland he will kill with the sword. He will set up a siege wall against you and heap up a ramp against you, and erect a roof of shields[c] against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering ram against your walls, and he will demolish your towers with his swords. 10 His horses will be so numerous that the dust they raise will cover you. Your walls will shake from the noise of the horses’ hoofs, the wheels, and the chariots when he enters your gates, as men enter a breached city. 11 With the hoofs of his horses, he will trample all your streets. He will kill all your people with the sword. Your mighty pillars will topple to the ground. 12 They will plunder your wealth and take your merchandise as loot. They will tear down your walls and demolish your magnificent houses. Your stones, your timbers, and your rubble they will throw into the water. 13 I will put an end to the noise of your songs, and the sound of your lyres will be heard no more. 14 I will turn you into a bare rock.

She[d] will become a place where fishing nets are spread out to dry. She will never be rebuilt, for I, the Lord, have spoken, declares the Lord God.

15 This is what the Lord God says to Tyre. How the coastlands will shudder at the sound of your downfall, when the victims groan, when the slain are slaughtered in your midst! 16 All the rulers of the sea will descend from their thrones, remove their robes, and take off their fine embroidered garments. Instead, they will be clothed with trembling. They will sit on the ground and tremble every moment. They will be appalled by you. 17 They will raise a lament over you and say to you, “How you have perished, you city inhabited by men from the sea, you city that was celebrated, a city that was the strongest in the sea. She and her inhabitants, who spread their terror—she and all of her inhabitants have perished.[e] 18 Now the coastlands tremble on the day of your downfall. The coastlands that are on the sea are terrified by your collapse.”

19 So this is what the Lord God says. When I make you a ruined city like the cities that are not inhabited, when I bring up the deep over you and the many waters cover you, 20 then I will bring you down to be with those who have descended to the pit, to the people from ancient times. I will make you live below the earth, like ancient ruins. You will be with those who have descended to the pit, so that you will be uninhabited, and I will not give you glory in the land of the living. 21 I will make you an object of horror, and you will no longer exist. You will be sought but never found again, declares the Lord God.
 

TheLearner

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#29
Job 26

Easy-to-Read Version



Job Answers Bildad
26 Then Job answered:
2 “Bildad, what a great help you are to this tired, weary man!
You have really supported me!
3 You have given such wonderful advice to this foolish man!
You have provided so much useful information!
4 Who helped you say these things?
Whose spirit inspired you to speak?
5 “The ghosts and their neighbors
in the underworld shake with fear.
6 But God can see clearly into that place of death.
Death[c] is not hidden from God.
7 God stretched the northern sky over empty space.
He hung the earth on nothing.
8 He fills the thick clouds with water.
But he does not let its heavy weight break the clouds open.
9 He covers the face of the full moon.
He spreads his clouds over it and hides it.
10 He drew the horizon on the ocean,
like a circle where light and darkness meet.
11 The foundations that hold up the sky
shake with fear when God threatens them.
12 With his own power God calmed the sea.
With his wisdom he destroyed Rahab.
13 His breath made the skies clear.
His hand destroyed the snake that tried to get away.[d]
14 These are only a few of the amazing things God has done.
We hear only a small whisper of God’s thundering power.”
 

TheLearner

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#30
Genesis 49:32-33

Christian Standard Bible



32 The field and the cave in it were purchased from the Hethites.” 33 When Jacob had finished giving charges to his sons, he drew his feet into the bed, took his last breath, and was gathered to his people.

Genesis 25:17
And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Genesis 35:29
And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Genesis 49:33
And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Numbers 20:24
Aaron shall be gathered unto his people: for he shall not enter into the land which I have given unto the children of Israel, because ye rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Numbers 20:26
And strip Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son: and Aaron shall be gathered unto his people, and shall die there.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Deuteronomy 32:50
And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
 

TheLearner

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#31
Genesis 15:15

King James Version



15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

"
Oxford Companion to the Bible: “Hell”



Both Sheol and Hades refer to a general dwelling place of souls after death. It was also called “the pit,” “the abyss,” and “the lower parts.” ... There was a general conviction that existence continued in some way after its separation from earthly life. The wicked dwell in a deeper section than those of the righteous. ... From a neutral viewpoint, Sheol was regarded as the dwelling place of all the dead. When ethical viewpoints are involved, however, Sheol is said to be a place of punishment."

On Isaiah 14
"
While discussing the future of the king of Babylon, Isaiah 14 is a very vivid description of conscious existence after death in the lower world of Sheol. Verses 10, 11, 16 and 17 are actually spoken by the souls in Sheol. It seriously challenges the assertion of those who deny the continued conscious survival of the soul after death prior to the resurrection of the body.



In 14:9 the “spirits of the dead” are “excited,” “aroused,” and “raised” to meet the dead king of Babylon. In 14:10 they “all respond” and speak. In 14:11 they remind the king that his body will be eaten by worms in the grave-part of Sheol. While some part of the king is conscious in Sheol, his body will be eaten by worms in another part."


Before the resurrection of Christ, “Paradise” is first seen corresponding to the upper division of Sheol/Hades, the habitation of the righteous souls. In Luke 16:19-31 Lazarus is conscious and at rest with Abraham and the rich man is conscious and in torment in the lower region of Hades. Jesus promised the dying thief on the cross, “Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” There is a great gulf separating the two regions.

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/sda/id41.html
 

Pilgrimshope

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#32
What did Jesus mean when He said to the thief on the cross" Today you will be with Me in Paradise?
Things changed for mankind when he came

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭

And accomplished his work

“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:51-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sleeping with the fathers is an Old Testament event that happens at death

entering into the heavenly kingdom where Jesus is alive and well is an event that happens to a believer of the gospel when their body dies

When we die our body decays and returns to the earth and our spirit returns to God

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In heaven with Jesus are his people and they are not sleeping they are praising him

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. ( notice that’s what the gospel promises cleansing from sin in his blood )

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9-10, 14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I’d say that all true believers are with Jesus and well awake and aware beyond anything we can grasp or see or understand some have left thier body and are now present with the lord like the man on the cross with Jesus

When our spirit leaves our body as a believer it means this

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We know where jesus is and he told him “ you’ll be with me “

The Bible says Jesus is on heaven on the right hand of God and believers are with him who have passed through this wicked and tumultuous world in faith going through hard times and sorrows and persecutions and all the bad things this world offered decent people but they believed now they are with Jesus in his kingdom

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. ( they had already lived and died in faith ) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

( the living people on earth they are in a very different situation until they pass through )

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sometimes the Bible is saying “ don’t fall asleep “ not referring to death but behavior

“Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep, sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He isn’t talking about dying there he’s talking about staying aware and awake and being diligent and keeping watch and. NOt falling into the things some do sleeping and not taking it seriously , failing to take repentance seriously or obedience seriously ect

It matters of we do this or not

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some will immediately enter heavens kingdom having eternal life others will be saved at the last judgement at the end of the world when the dead are all raised up from the grave and hell and the sea it matters what a Christian does

abut many who haven’t ever really made a huge change and still struggle a lot with sin and actually did believe the gospel aren’t going to Perish they will have to pay fornthier deeds but they aren’t going to perish they will be raised up at the final judgement and saved because they are written in the lords book of life
 
Oct 28, 2022
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#33
On Isaiah 14
"
While discussing the future of the king of Babylon, Isaiah 14 is a very vivid description of conscious existence after death in the lower world of Sheol. Verses 10, 11, 16 and 17 are actually spoken by the souls in Sheol. It seriously challenges the assertion of those who deny the continued conscious survival of the soul after death prior to the resurrection of the body.

In 14:9 the “spirits of the dead” are “excited,” “aroused,” and “raised” to meet the dead king of Babylon. In 14:10 they “all respond” and speak. In 14:11 they remind the king that his body will be eaten by worms in the grave-part of Sheol. While some part of the king is conscious in Sheol, his body will be eaten by worms in another part."
What rubbish. Citing an ex-SDA (again? *sigh*) Why bother with citing someone who, obviously, has never really read the text in question with honesty, neither studied the words and their contexts:
Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!​

Isaiah, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, is providing a "proverb" (a parable, H4912), or language that is symbolic.

Surely, the author of your terribly mistaken 'blog' (the obvious place for real Bible knowledge, of course - *rolls eyes*), does not think that trees speak Hebrew (English)?

Isa 14:8 גם־ברושׁים שׂמחו לך ארזי לבנון מאז שׁכבת לא־יעלה הכרת עלינו׃​
Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.​

Furthermore, Isaiah 14:9 does not say in Hebrew or English "spirits of the dead". It plainly reads:

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.​
Isa 14:9 שׁאול מתחת רגזה לך לקראת בואך עורר לך רפאים כל־עתודי ארץ הקים מכסאותם כל מלכי גוים׃​

H5782, "עורר" means to arouse (as like to awaken) or stir up in movement

H9009, "לך" is a prefix meaning, to, for, towards, belonging to, in regard to, according to, in; and the latter part is merely a gramatical suffix.

H7496, "רפאים", means 'the deceased', as for instance in Job 26:5, refers to the dead buried beneath the ocean, from the time of Noah's flood. They aren't conscientiously "alive", but dead in sleep, until their respective resurrection as Job says (Job 14, etc).

dead, 7​
Job_26:5, Psa_88:10, Pro_9:18 (2), Pro_21:16, Isa_14:9, Isa_26:19​
deceased, 1​
Isa_26:14​

Notice, Psalms 88:10's perfect parallelism, citing H7496, with H4191 "the dead" (part a):

Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.​

Notice, Isaiah 26:19, a prophecy about the special resurrection that takes place with Jesus' own resurrection:

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.​

Firstfruits/Wavesheaf at the time of Jesus' Resurrection around Jerusalem by JEHOVAH Elohiym - Matthew 27:50-53, 28:1-4; Isaiah 26:19; (for Jesus, see also Psalms 40:6; Hebrews 10:5; Galatians 4:4); Psalms 68:8,17-21 (vs 21., see Genesis 3:15); compare Psalms 68:18 to Ephesians 4:8-10; Compare Leviticus 23:9-14; 15-22 (Firstfruits) to 1 Corinthians 15:21-23. See also Psalms 24:1-10 (Triumphal Entry with Victory Train into New Jerusalem above), with Psalms 98:1-3; Colossians 2:15. See also Acts 1.

Isaiah 14 is about the "king of Babylon", ie the devil (Lucifer; Isaiah 14:12), the real authority behind the scenes ruling from the "throne of iniquity" (Psalms 94:20, "satan's seat" (Revelation 2:13)) and his downfall, and final end (Revelation 20).

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.​

This refers to the dead (deceased kings), lying in 'state', in their mausoleums. They aren't alive. They're dead and lying flat on their back in their tombs (Isaiah 14:20, "burial").

Isa 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.​
Satan's final reward:

Isa 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.​
 

Nehemiah6

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#34
The teaching that a soul lives forever is an evil doctrine of the devil.
On the contrary the Bible is perfectly clear that souls are imperishable. Therefore there will be a resurrection unto life and a resurrection unto damnation. Thus the souls and spirits will be rejoined to their bodies and will continue to live forever. Either in Heaven or in Hell.

When it says "I saw the dead small and great stand before God" it means that the dead in Hades were resurrected to stand before God and receive their sentence. Eventually they were cast into the Lake of Fire. So there is no such thing as Annihilationism. Now that is a deceptive doctrine of the devil.
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#35
.
the Bible is perfectly clear that souls are imperishable.

The human soul is rugged but it isn't invincible. According to Matt 10:28, the
body is perishable by just about any means, but the soul is perishable only
by the hand of God; i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't necessarily
simultaneous, viz: the soul lives on until such a time as God decides to give
it either a thumb up or a thumb down.
_
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#36
. The human soul is rugged but it isn't invincible. According to Matt 10:28, the body is perishable by just about any means, but the soul is perishable only by the hand of God; i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't necessarily simultaneous, viz: the soul lives on until such a time as God decides to give it either a thumb up or a thumb down.
This is just false doctrine. Your own theology with no biblical basis.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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#37
On the contrary the Bible is perfectly clear that souls are imperishable.
Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
Oct 28, 2022
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#38
On the contrary the Bible is perfectly clear that souls are imperishable. Therefore there will be a resurrection unto life and a resurrection unto damnation. Thus the souls and spirits will be rejoined to their bodies and will continue to live forever. Either in Heaven or in Hell.

When it says "I saw the dead small and great stand before God" it means that the dead in Hades were resurrected to stand before God and receive their sentence. Eventually they were cast into the Lake of Fire. So there is no such thing as Annihilationism. Now that is a deceptive doctrine of the devil.
QUESTION: DO THE SCRIPTURES TEACH THE ANNIHILATION OF THE WICKED IN THE SECOND DEATH?

Yes. (Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10,20,28,38, 68:2,28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4,20; Isaiah 13:9, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 20:9.

Oba 1:16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

The words used so far in describing the end of the wicked are Destroy, Blotted Out, Perished, Consumed Utterly, Cut Off, Dissolved, Melted, Devoured, Dead, Death, Hath Not Been, Not [any/no more], Burned Up, etc. [all taken from Strong's]:

HEBREW:

[Hebrew: machah מחה; meaning: to wipe out; blot out, obliterate; exterminated]
[Hebrew: macah מסה; meaning: melt away, dissolve, liquefy, consumed]
[Hebrew: muwg מוג; meaning: to melt, dissolve, faint, dissipate, flow away]
[Hebrew: muwth מות; meaning: dead, death, kill, slain]
[Hebrew: da`ak דעך; meaning: extinguished, to go out, put out, dry up, made extinct, quenched]
[Hebrew: caphah ספה; meaning: to be swept away, destroyed, consumed]
[Hebrew: shachath שחת; meaning: destroyed, corrupted, ruined, decayed]
[Hebrew: parar פרר; meaning: break apart, frustrate, split, splinter to pieces, shatter, cracked up]
[Hebrew: 'abad אבד; meaning: perished, vanished, destroyed, die, exterminated, blot out, put to death]
[Hebrew: 'obed אבד; meaning: destruction, perish]
[Hebrew: gava` גוע; meaning: to expire, die, death, breathe ones last, yield up the last breath]
[Hebrew: cuwph סוף; meaning: to come to an end, to make an end, consume utterly, cause to cease, perish]
[Hebrew: damah דמה; meaning: to cease, cause to cease, cut off, destroy, perish, to be undone]
[Hebrew: charam חרם; meaning: to ban, destroy utterly and completely, exterminated, forfeited, divided, prohibited]
[Hebrew: kalah כלה; meaning: consumed, determined, ended, finished, completely spent, at an end, perish, terminated, annihilation, complete destruction]
[Hebrew: karath כרת; meaning: cut off, cut asunder, eliminate, kill, cut down]
[Hebrew: kachad כחד; meaning: hide, conceal, cut down, make desolate, destroy, cut off, annihilate, efface]
[Hebrew: bala` בלע; meaning: swallowed up, eaten up, to be ended]
[Hebrew: balah בלה; meaning: to wear out, wear away, use up completely]
[Hebrew: harac הרס; meaning: to tear down, break down, overthrow, destroy utterly]
[Hebrew: show' שוא; meaning: devastated, ruined, laid to waste]
[Hebrew: tsamath צמת; meaning: put an end to, cut off, destroy, exterminate, annihilate]
[Hebrew: shamad שמד; meaning: destroyed, exterminate, annihilated, devastated]
[Hebrew: naphal נפל; meaning: cast down, fail, waste away, overturn, knock down, fall]
[Hebrew: 'akal אכל; meaning: to eat, devour, consume, to be wasted, destroyed]
[Hebrew: chacal חסל; meaning: to consume, eaten up, bring to an end]
[Hebrew: tamam תמם; meaning: to be complete, finished, at an end, consumed, exhausted]
[Hebrew: 'oklah אכלה; meaning: object of devouring, consuming in judgment]
[Hebrew: maqaq מקק; meaning: to decay, pine away, rot, fester, corrupt, dissolve]
[Hebrew: guwz גוז; meaning: to pass over, pass away (of life), cut off]
[Hebrew: yatsath יצת; meaning: to be burned up, to be made desolate, set on fire]
[Hebrew: sĕrephah שרפה; meaning: burning, burn, burnt up throughly]

Koine GREEK:

[Greek: apollymi ἀπόλλυμι; meaning: to destroy, put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin, render useless, kill, perish]
[Greek: lyō λύω; meaning: loosed, undone, annul, dissolve, do away with, overthrow, break up]
[Greek: katalyō καταλύω; meaning: dissolved, disunite, overthrow, render vain, bring to naught]
[Greek: analiskō ἀναλίσκω; meaning: to expend, consume, destroy]
[Greek: phtheirō φθείρω; meaning: to corrupt, to destroy, to perish, deprave]
[Greek: diaphtheirō διαφθείρω; meaning: to corrupt, consume, destroy, kill, eat up, ruin]
[Greek: aphanizō ἀφανίζω; meaning: to snatch away, take away, to make unseen, to destroy, consume, to make vanish]
[Greek: phthora φθορά; meaning: corruption, destruction, perishing, decay]
[Greek: kataphtheirō καταφθείρω; meaning: to corrupt, deprave, to destroy, perish]
[Greek: ekkoptō ἐκκόπτω; meaning: hewn down, cut off or out]
[Greek: apokoptō ἀποκόπτω; meaning: cut off, amputate]
[Greek: nekros νεκρός; meaning: lifeless, dead, deceased, breathed ones last, inanimate, inactive]
[Greek: nekroō νεκρόω; meaning: dead, put to death, to deprive of power, destroy the strength]
[Greek: apothnēskō ἀποθνῄσκω; meaning: to die, perish, dry up, eternal death]
[Greek: empi(m)prēmi ἐμπί(μ)πρημι; meaning: burn up, destroy by fire]
[Greek: katakaiō κατακαίω; meaning: to burn up, consume by fire]

Begin to ask, where are the all of the wicked [including Satan and his angels] standing in Revelation 20:8-9? Do they [the wicked] live there eternally or are they rather not completely destroyed so that the New Heaven and the New Earth may be created there, wherein dwelleth righteousness, peace, no more tears, pain or sorrow or sin or satan?

“...and there was found no place for them.” Revelation 20:11 (see also Daniel 2:35)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#40
Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Do you really know what those verses are teaching?

The first verse corresponds to "The wages of sin is death". But there are two deaths: (1) the separation of the soul and spirit from the body and (2) the eternal separation of the unsaved from God in the Lake of Fire. "This is the second death".

In Matthew 10:28 "destroy" does not mean "annihilate" but "eternal ruin" which is eternal damnation. Unfortunately Thayer stops short with "eternal misery" rather than "eternal damnation".

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 615: ἀποκτείνω (apokteinó)
2. metaphorically, to extinguish, abolish: τήν ἐχτραν, Ephesians 2:16; to inflict moral death, Romans 7:11 (see ἀποθνῄσκω, II. 2); to deprive of spiritual life and procure eternal misery, 2 Corinthians 3:6 (Lachmann ἀποκταινει; see above)
.